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Polishing Older Paint

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Old 12-30-2017, 04:41 PM
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Easy Rhino
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Default Polishing Older Paint

(spent all afternoon watching bowl games and perusing this forum)

Question for the paint experts - I want to polish my '65 which was repainted sometime since 1983 and apparently spent little time outdoors since. It seems to be a single stage enamel, as it stains a rag with a touch of cleaner wax on it. I assume it's not laquer?

It has few real defects, it's only dull (oxidized I suppose), and has no cracks or badly repaired areas. It appears to be a no hit body.

I have a Porter Cable random orbital polisher, and time on my hands.

I would appreciate any insights on how to "super detail" it, in order to save repainting it.

Thanks in advance.
Old 12-30-2017, 06:11 PM
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I HOPE that the car is NOT a metallic color. Polishing a metallic singe stage can effect/distort the metallics and make it look splotchy.

More information si needed...such as whattype of pads do oyu ahve for the polisher you ahve???

And how bad is the oxidation???

When and IF you have tried polishing it by hand...how quick can you get it to shine again and look to your liking???

What products are you using??? (or plan on using).

Depending on how bad the oxidation is...because you CAN have different levels of oxidation. This can let you know if you are lucky enough to use a foam pad and creams to get it to come back and shine. Some oxidation is a bit more harsh and all of the polishing creams are useless due to they do not have the needed grit to get the oxidation off. There are different types of cutting compounds...and the grit in it is what makes them different. Some cutting compounds can REALLY cut...while other mild compounds and cut but not so aggressively.

SO...not being there and being able to see what you have.... you will have to perform test spots and find out what you need because there is NO clear cut answer to your inquiry
and it will take using a cutting compound to get it off and then follow up with a polish.

Start off with the milder or less abrasive cutting compound and work your way to harsher if needed. I like to use 3M's Perfect-it II micro finishing compound....and then follow up with my other products and a foam pad. Literally I can get black ( or any color) so slick and have absolutely NO swirls or micro scratches in it. It just takes time and is a process.

DUB
Old 12-30-2017, 07:38 PM
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DUB, I was hoping you would happen by!

I didn't want to put too much info in the opening topic, since I didn't know what mattered. My answers are below.

Originally Posted by DUB
I HOPE that the car is NOT a metallic color. Polishing a metallic singe stage can effect/distort the metallics and make it look splotchy.

It is factory solid Rally Red. No metallic here.

More information si needed...such as whattype of pads do oyu ahve for the polisher you ahve???

Only the pad that came with it new. So I'm hoping for recommendations - there are so many types out there it makes my head spin, I don't know where to start.

And how bad is the oxidation???

Hardly bad at all. <= It's in the avatar. I say oxidation only because it's kind of dull-looking. But it is far from that chalky pink you see on mistreated red painted cars.

When and IF you have tried polishing it by hand...how quick can you get it to shine again and look to your liking???

I only tried a Meguairs polish from the FLAPS, and only lightly by hand, several months ago. I don't want to damage the paint that seems decent enough except for the shine. It improved the shine where I tested it but only slightly.

What products are you using??? (or plan on using).

I plan on using whatever the right products are - no amount of products, pads, and effort begin to approach the costs of a repaint, IMO. I think I may need to remove contaminants (clay bar?), do something to "feed" the old paint (no idea what), something to polish it (maybe multiple steps), and then something to protect it (whatever that is). But, I'm only guessing at this point.

Depending on how bad the oxidation is...because you CAN have different levels of oxidation. This can let you know if you are lucky enough to use a foam pad and creams to get it to come back and shine. Some oxidation is a bit more harsh and all of the polishing creams are useless due to they do not have the needed grit to get the oxidation off. There are different types of cutting compounds...and the grit in it is what makes them different. Some cutting compounds can REALLY cut...while other mild compounds and cut but not so aggressively.

I'm not entirely sure that my '65 is oxidized - maybe it's just dulled and "fogged" (dull) from lack of proper care. Also, from every angle - there does not seem to be any difference in levels of shine (or lack of shine). Given a choice, I would rather go with the lowest abrasive option, even if it takes more labor and supplies.

SO...not being there and being able to see what you have.... you will have to perform test spots and find out what you need because there is NO clear cut answer to your inquiry
and it will take using a cutting compound to get it off and then follow up with a polish.

I like this approach and felt confident that you would be able to advise a rational path forward. Test spots sounds like a capital idea! Even if I wind up with sunk costs in materials that don't do the job, and have to change up, it's still better than a repaint. Given a choice, I'd rather go conservative - low and slow - to avoid ruining the paint that's on it.

Start off with the milder or less abrasive cutting compound and work your way to harsher if needed. I like to use 3M's Perfect-it II micro finishing compound....and then follow up with my other products and a foam pad. Literally I can get black ( or any color) so slick and have absolutely NO swirls or micro scratches in it. It just takes time and is a process.

I've seen what pros like you can do to come up with deep mirrors of paint from old fogged finishes - it's amazing. I like the "start off with milder and work to harsher if needed." Would you then recommend a test spot using the 3M Perfect-it II micro finishing compound? If so, what application pad would be a good choice? Would this be using the Porter Cable? Do I need to do any preps first, like wash wish Dawn, clay bar, etc.?

The things I've got on my side are patience, a desire to not repaint what appears to be a solid paint coat on it (no cracks, bubbles, fish eyes, etc), and this forum (guys like you - knowledgable and helpful)

DUB
Thanks and a Happy New Year, DUB!

Kevin
Old 12-30-2017, 07:44 PM
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Here's my avatar picture, taken during the so-called "golden hour" for you photography buffs. As you can see, it's not awful.
Old 12-30-2017, 07:48 PM
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Here's a picture of it during full afternoon sun on the west side of the house. Again, it's far from awful.
Old 12-31-2017, 10:01 AM
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black lake country pad and Vseries #38 from chemical guys. a 4 oz bottle will do it .

Last edited by porchdog; 12-31-2017 at 10:01 AM.
Old 12-31-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by porchdog
black lake country pad and Vseries #38 from chemical guys. a 4 oz bottle will do it .
Is this the pad? https://www.chemicalguys.com/Lake_Co...uflc_105_6.htm

I searched the Chemical Guys' website and could not find any product names "Vseries #38."

I did find this: http://www.chemicalguys.com/V38_Opti...gap_v38_16.htm

Last edited by Easy Rhino; 12-31-2017 at 01:07 PM.
Old 12-31-2017, 01:37 PM
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the stands for Vseries . the #38 is for polishing . the black pads are for polishing. you dont want anything that cuts a lot. painters blue tape for your edges and peaks .
Old 12-31-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by porchdog
the stands for Vseries . the #38 is for polishing . the black pads are for polishing. you dont want anything that cuts a lot. painters blue tape for your edges and peaks .
I appreciate the assistance.

Do you wash and clay the paint first before polishing it?

What about after polishing?
Old 12-31-2017, 05:47 PM
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This is my views on this and you can obviously use what you like....or do it as you see fit.

You want to make sure the paint is CLEAN before you put a pad on it. So washing it with car soap is fine or DAWN if you want...and this is due to you are going to be polishing it and putting back into the paint the oils and resins it needs to stay alive. IF you have light dirt on it...it will then get dragged into your pad and you can scratch the paint...depending on how large the dirt specks are.

I would not waste my time with the clay bar due to you are going to be using your polisher...and by how the car looks...it is not going to take much to bring it backup really shiny.

IF you want to try a test spot with 3M Perfect-it II...you can do so...but you can NOT use the same pad WHEN you go to polish it . IF you use the 3M stuff..and then switch to the Meguairs...you need to change pads.

You wrote it backwards. You go from harsher compound to milder to get the shine flawless.

Once you are done...you do not use the clay bar or anything.

I have variable speed circular buffer from Makita. I do have a large orbital that weighs about 20 pounds....but I do not use it in a scenario like what you have. I would use my circular buffer with the thick wool pad and go at it with the micro finishing compound and see what it does and how fast it brings the shine back up...and run around the car and see what it does....then if that worked.....I switch pads to a foam pad (AFTER making sure I get off all of the compound)....then suet eh ultra polish and or the SWIRL remover...and then do it with the orbital with the terry cloth pad and the AURORA hand glaze..

I use PRESTA products....so that is up to you. And they get used with the foam pad. and terry cloth pad. I use the ULTRA POLISH(Chroma1500) and SWIRL REMOVER and the AURORA HAND GLAZE.

I do not apply wax...so when I an done with the hand glaze...I am done. I do not want anything to seal up the paint....especially on my paint jobs...regardless on how long they have cured.

http://www.prestaproducts.com/Polishes-list.aspx

http://www.prestaproducts.com/Hand_G...a-details.aspx

DUB

Last edited by DUB; 12-31-2017 at 05:49 PM.
Old 12-31-2017, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DUB
This is my views on this and you can obviously use what you like....or do it as you see fit.

I hope I'm wise enough to follow the advice of those that know what they're doing and have experience.

You want to make sure the paint is CLEAN before you put a pad on it. So washing it with car soap is fine or DAWN if you want...and this is due to you are going to be polishing it and putting back into the paint the oils and resins it needs to stay alive. IF you have light dirt on it...it will then get dragged into your pad and you can scratch the paint...depending on how large the dirt specks are.

Got it. I'll wash it first with Dawn, since I have no idea what may be on the paint from before.

I would not waste my time with the clay bar due to you are going to be using your polisher...and by how the car looks...it is not going to take much to bring it backup really shiny.

Roger that. I don't mind skipping the clay bar if it adds no value. I like your assessment that it should not take too much to make it really shiny - mostly from a standpoint that I should be able to avoid taking off very much paint.

IF you want to try a test spot with 3M Perfect-it II...you can do so...but you can NOT use the same pad WHEN you go to polish it . IF you use the 3M stuff..and then switch to the Meguairs...you need to change pads.

Would that 3M Perfect-it II be some kind of pre-polish cutting compound? I'm guessing that I should always swap pads whenever changing compounds? Are you saying start with the 3M then polish with a Meguiars product?

You wrote it backwards. You go from harsher compound to milder to get the shine flawless.

Thanks for the correction.

Once you are done...you do not use the clay bar or anything.

Roger that as well.

I have variable speed circular buffer from Makita. I do have a large orbital that weighs about 20 pounds....but I do not use it in a scenario like what you have. I would use my circular buffer with the thick wool pad and go at it with the micro finishing compound and see what it does and how fast it brings the shine back up...and run around the car and see what it does....then if that worked.....I switch pads to a foam pad (AFTER making sure I get off all of the compound)....then suet eh ultra polish and or the SWIRL remover...and then do it with the orbital with the terry cloth pad and the AURORA hand glaze..

I plan to use a Porter Cable 7424 DA polisher to minimize the chance of burning the paint, or digging through the body sharp edges. As you recommended, I will not re-use pads between compounds. Can I use one single pad for each compound, or should I change pads in the middle of a single compound?

I use PRESTA products....so that is up to you. And they get used with the foam pad. and terry cloth pad. I use the ULTRA POLISH(Chroma1500) and SWIRL REMOVER and the AURORA HAND GLAZE.

I would prefer to use the best polishes and compounds available. Are you recommending PRESTA over the 3M and Meguairs? If so, which would you use in what order on my '65? How does one select the right pad for the right compound/polish?

I do not apply wax...so when I an done with the hand glaze...I am done. I do not want anything to seal up the paint....especially on my paint jobs...regardless on how long they have cured.

I read another thread where you recommended not using wax. Does that exclusion also go for all of the non-wax products?

http://www.prestaproducts.com/Polishes-list.aspx

http://www.prestaproducts.com/Hand_G...a-details.aspx

DUB
So, in summary here's what I think:

1 - wash with Dawn.

2 - using DA polisher with fresh pad (what kind?), use either 3M Perfect-it II or PRESTA ULTRA POLISH 1500, either with a foam(?) pad.

3 - ensure all the polish used is removed.

4 - using DA polisher with either Meguairs (which one?) or PRESTA swirl remover, with a terry cloth pad?

5 - finish with Aurora hand glaze. Is this applied by hand? Using microfiber or terry cloth?

DUB, Appreciate you taking the time to "wise me up."
Old 01-01-2018, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy Rhino
So, in summary here's what I think:

1 - wash with Dawn.
YES
2 - using DA polisher with fresh pad (what kind?), use either 3M Perfect-it II or PRESTA ULTRA POLISH 1500, either with a foam(?) pad.

I do not use the type of orbital polisher to get a cars shine back up. For me due to being 'old school'. I always grab my circular buffer that is variable speed and get it done that way.

So using a terry cloth pad for your orbital I am sure it will work but may take a while...or it might do the job quickly when using the 3M product.

Then I would put on a new pad and use the ULTRA POLISH and see how it goes. THEN if needed I use the SWIRL REMOVER.....and you can use your orbital and apply the AURORA HAND GLAZE.

WHEN you go to start using the terry cloth pads for the ULTRA POLISH and those products AFTER IT...make sure you apply the product TO THE PAD. and work it in....because when you get a finish like glass with NO SWIRLS or scratches init....a DRY cloth can scratch it.

And you can try using the ULTRA POLISH right off the start in one area and see what it does. It is so hard to definitively give an answer to this type of work.



3 - ensure all the polish used is removed.

YES...mainly the compound. the ULTRA POLISH and SWIRL REMOVER are really not that aggressive/abrasive so you do not have to get overly paranoid about them

4 - using DA polisher with either Meguairs (which one?) or PRESTA swirl remover, with a terry cloth pad?

I have no clue on Mergairs products any longer....I have been using PRESTA for well over 20 years now.

5 - finish with Aurora hand glaze. Is this applied by hand? Using microfiber or terry cloth?

Like I wrote above...it can either be by hand or using the orbital and make sure you do not go crazy and do a large area. TEST IT and see how it is working for you at the air temps you re working in. IF it gets hard like a rock and does NOT want to come off...go back over it with the orbital or by hand to wet it back out again and then wipe it off.

I like to wipe the AURORA off with the red microfiber towels you can get at an Oreillys. The very plush surface seems to not scratch for me.

DUB, Appreciate you taking the time to "wise me up."
Glad to do what I can.

Keep in mind the amount of pressure you use when taking the AURORA off or any of the other polishes like the ULTRA POLISH or SWIRL REMOVER. When you are applying these products there will always seem to be a slight residue left on the panel....and often times I will take one of the RED microfiber towels and wipe it off lightly with it. And sometimes I place the red micro fiber towel UNDER the orbital I have that has a terry cloth pad on it.... and grab the towel on each side and let my orbital do some of the work for me.

This is the orbital I use.
http://www.gem-industries.com/ss.php

DUB

Last edited by DUB; 01-01-2018 at 06:00 PM.
Old 01-01-2018, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DUB
Glad to do what I can.

Keep in mind the amount of pressure you use when taking the AURORA off or any of the other polishes like the ULTRA POLISH or SWIRL REMOVER. When you are applying these products there will always seem to be a slight residue left on the panel....and often times I will take one of the RED microfiber towels and wipe it off lightly with it. And sometimes I place the red micro fiber towel UNDER the orbital I have that has a terry cloth pad on it.... and grab the towel on each side and let my orbital do some of the work for me.

This is the orbital I use.
http://www.gem-industries.com/ss.php

DUB
Thanks very mucho!
Old 01-02-2018, 05:35 PM
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Let us know how it goes for you.

DUB
Old 01-02-2018, 08:50 PM
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I will, DUB.

I'll probably do a photo essay of it when I get it around to it.

Kevin

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