2000 C5 -- Adding Subwoofer - Amp
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Roselle IL
My Story
Originally Posted by Squid
Ok -- as with my pipes you guys helped me narrow it down on how to add a subwoofer to a "sub-par" Bose System.
Like many others I read on here I wanted to try and keep the Bose system in there and try to "shore" it up with some bass.
I intend to replace the 3.5" speakers later.
Here is what I have come up with based on my research in this forum.
I need a:
1) Interface - PAC AOEM-VET1
2) SubThump 10 Stealth Box
3) Alpine SWR-1042D (Sub)
4) Rockford Fosgate Punch P2002 (Amp)
5) Good Wiring for Power, RCA Leads, Speaker Wire
It is not what I call a super powerful bass, but I think this set up should fill in the gaps.
Please feel free to kick me in the cajones and set me right if some of you think I am headed down a bad path.
Below I will includes and pics of what I am doing.
Interface - PAC AOEM-VET1
SubThump 10 Stealth Box
Alpine SWR-1042D Speaker - 10" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils
Rockford Fosgate Punch P2002
200 watts RMS x 1 bridged output at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable in bridged mode)
Like many others I read on here I wanted to try and keep the Bose system in there and try to "shore" it up with some bass.
I intend to replace the 3.5" speakers later.
Here is what I have come up with based on my research in this forum.
I need a:
1) Interface - PAC AOEM-VET1
2) SubThump 10 Stealth Box
3) Alpine SWR-1042D (Sub)
4) Rockford Fosgate Punch P2002 (Amp)
5) Good Wiring for Power, RCA Leads, Speaker Wire
It is not what I call a super powerful bass, but I think this set up should fill in the gaps.
Please feel free to kick me in the cajones and set me right if some of you think I am headed down a bad path.
Below I will includes and pics of what I am doing.
Interface - PAC AOEM-VET1
SubThump 10 Stealth Box
Alpine SWR-1042D Speaker - 10" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils
Rockford Fosgate Punch P2002
200 watts RMS x 1 bridged output at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable in bridged mode)
-10W3 www.woofersect.com
-JL Clean Sweep
-JL AMP 300/4
-6.5 650 CI Component
-www.proboxrocks.com enclosure
The website is cheezy and but the box is top notch--- It arrived today
If you want more detail, PM me-
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,718
Likes: 20
From: Dyer IN
Cruise-In IX Veteran
I actually have used the cleansweep and I'll just say it needs some work. For most cars unless you can't get a full range output its not worth the money over a standard LOC
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Roselle IL
Originally Posted by scott_fx
whoa! clean sweep! you gotta let us know if it's all that it's hyped up to be! that is a pretty cool gadget, wher eyou installing it?
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
I am shifting the thread to a little more Amplifier 101 now.
As I can see from my research that Amplifier Mfrs tend to show their best hand, but reality is far from what is posted for most people.
For instance you migh see a 200 WATT amp advertised but when you start looking at the specs things are not what they seem.
50 W x 2 @ 4 Ohms RMS
100 W x 2 @ 2 Ohms RMS
200 W x 1 @ 4 Ohms Bridged RMS
Total power 200 Watts
So my question is this: When my amp above says 200 W x 1 @ 4 Ohms Bridged RMS, is that real power and very reachable? Or is it the far end of the volumn **** and considered peak power under the harshest conditions?
How relative is Wattage in my case, meaning my speaker is rated 500W (1000 Peak) -- will this 200W Bridged drive this one woofer.
I mean at this point in the build I am just looking to fill in the sounds of what the Bose lacks, not win a sound off at the local stereo store.
My longterm thinking is that since it is two channel it can be used later to run some component speakers if I ever switch out.
Finally, would going to 300W Bridged make a significant difference?
Squid
As I can see from my research that Amplifier Mfrs tend to show their best hand, but reality is far from what is posted for most people.
For instance you migh see a 200 WATT amp advertised but when you start looking at the specs things are not what they seem.
50 W x 2 @ 4 Ohms RMS
100 W x 2 @ 2 Ohms RMS
200 W x 1 @ 4 Ohms Bridged RMS
Total power 200 Watts
So my question is this: When my amp above says 200 W x 1 @ 4 Ohms Bridged RMS, is that real power and very reachable? Or is it the far end of the volumn **** and considered peak power under the harshest conditions?
How relative is Wattage in my case, meaning my speaker is rated 500W (1000 Peak) -- will this 200W Bridged drive this one woofer.
I mean at this point in the build I am just looking to fill in the sounds of what the Bose lacks, not win a sound off at the local stereo store.
My longterm thinking is that since it is two channel it can be used later to run some component speakers if I ever switch out.
Finally, would going to 300W Bridged make a significant difference?
Squid
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
From: Houma, La.
I just installed a complete system in my '97 coupe.The sound is great.The sub hits hard and quick.I love it.You will be very satisfied with the 10" sub as long as its set up right.Set up is the key...This is what i have...
Eclipse deck.
MTX 3404 4-Channel amp
OZ Matrix Elite 180CS 6.5 Components front's.
Boston Acoustic SX65/6.5 Coaxials rear.
JL Audio 10W3-2 sub.w/Subthump stealth box.
Alpine sub amp.
The sub sounds great.
Eclipse deck.
MTX 3404 4-Channel amp
OZ Matrix Elite 180CS 6.5 Components front's.
Boston Acoustic SX65/6.5 Coaxials rear.
JL Audio 10W3-2 sub.w/Subthump stealth box.
Alpine sub amp.
The sub sounds great.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: Naples Florida
I just heard a new system installed in an 02 coupe with 2 JL audio 8W7's and they were amazing. Quick,Tight, and very clean... I am going to do the same... Just awesome sound and very stealth...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
Originally Posted by SIICK Blue 02
Just because your a broke ***.... get out of your has been ride and get into something that will pull some tail...
Slow Moe.....
Slow Moe.....
Last edited by scott_fx; Dec 12, 2005 at 08:35 PM.
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Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Darion -- thanks for the research and then most importantly -- the translation. 
Next on Amp 101: Is there a simple way to describe just what you can do with a two channel amp versus the four channel?
I mean when they say two channel do they mean you can run TWO sets of speakers -- each channel having a left and right output to speakers? Or does the TWO channel mean one left and one right?
I gues what I am trying to figure out is in a typical car where you have two front speaks and two speakers in the back.
Of course, I understand that you would then have a separate amp for the sub - whether is a bridged two channel or a mono sub amp.
Thanks for the input.
Charles
Next on Amp 101: Is there a simple way to describe just what you can do with a two channel amp versus the four channel?
I mean when they say two channel do they mean you can run TWO sets of speakers -- each channel having a left and right output to speakers? Or does the TWO channel mean one left and one right?
I gues what I am trying to figure out is in a typical car where you have two front speaks and two speakers in the back.
Of course, I understand that you would then have a separate amp for the sub - whether is a bridged two channel or a mono sub amp.
Thanks for the input.
Charles
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
with a two chan amp you have two channels in other words a left and right for ONE set of speakers. with a four channel amp you can use chans 3&4 to power one sub at (usually) twice the wattage.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,718
Likes: 20
From: Dyer IN
Cruise-In IX Veteran
One of my concerns still is that when you bridge that amp it is only 4 ohms stable and that sub is a dual 4 ohm which leaves you with a 2ohm load which will overload that amp and kill it
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,734
Likes: 232
From: Youngstown Ohio
Originally Posted by pentavolvo
One of my concerns still is that when you bridge that amp it is only 4 ohms stable and that sub is a dual 4 ohm which leaves you with a 2ohm load which will overload that amp and kill it
Nice catch on that,
Darion
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
yes...the one problem is that you will be getting half of the power from the amp if you get a dual 2 ohm sub (wired to 4 ohms). if you get an amp that is 2 ohm stable (bidged) then you'll get a lot more power to the sub
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,718
Likes: 20
From: Dyer IN
Cruise-In IX Veteran
scott fx what you say is true, but it all really depends on the amp. I mean he could always get a monoblock as well, if I recall those pg ti amps are kinda pricey but maybe im wrong. On a sidenote I know I don't post much but scott you are very knowledgeable i read alot and you appear to be a major asset to this forum
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,734
Likes: 232
From: Youngstown Ohio
Originally Posted by scott_fx
yes...the one problem is that you will be getting half of the power from the amp if you get a dual 2 ohm sub (wired to 4 ohms). if you get an amp that is 2 ohm stable (bidged) then you'll get a lot more power to the sub
The amp he is considering is the P2002 with the following specs,
ﾕ 2 Channel Amplifier
ﾕ 50 watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms
ﾕ 100 watts RMS x 2 at 2 ohms
ﾕ 200 watts RMS x 1 bridged output at 4 ohms
ﾕ 600 watts Peak output at 2 ohms
ﾕ 4-ohm stable in bridged mode
ﾕ Stereo or bridged mono output
As long as the amp load is 4 ohms while bridged, the RMS amp output will be about 200 watts as rated, which is what he is expecting. It is correct that each time you half the ohm load 4 ohms to 2 ohms for example, to the amp, you about double amp output. However in this case he will be best off running that amp a 4 ohms.
I know that this setup may not seem to be what we all would do, but, I am trying to work with what Squid has asked for. He has stated that he just wants to fill in the bottom end, keep cost reasonable, not looking to go overboard and have the install done professionally. He seems to be pretty set on these brands, they are not bad brands, and wants to keep it simple. All in all seems that is where his decisions are taking him, lets help him get there.
Again, hope this helps,
Darion
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,718
Likes: 20
From: Dyer IN
Cruise-In IX Veteran
I agree it will fill him in with some low end with 200wrms but i think he needs to pick a better sub prly a svc 4 ohm that would work better with that power. It is my feeling that giving a high power sub little power isnt very efficient
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,572
Likes: 4
From: Los Angeles Ca
it's all cool 
Everyone here is giving great advice... i think darion is keeping true to squids orig. intentions. I keep wandering (mainly because i usually post at work and I'm busy...why do i check the forum...addiction 
)
Everyone here is giving great advice... i think darion is keeping true to squids orig. intentions. I keep wandering (mainly because i usually post at work and I'm busy...why do i check the forum...addiction )
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Alright -- great advice and you got me thinking. I admit I am lost when it comes to the Ohm talk, but I did find these handy charts on Rockford Fosgate website (Crutchfiel has them too).
The charts explain how to wire if single voice coil or dual, 2 or 4 ohm (even 8 straight, etc).
This charts shows that with my amp (Punch 2002) I would need the 2 x 2 Ohm Dual Voice Coil. It shows how to wire that one to get to 4 ohm and it also shows how you could wire it to 1 ohm (if so compelled).
Here is the same speaker wired slightly different to make it 1 ohm:
Now as said earlier if I stayed with the speaker the kid at Mobil One suggested the 2 x 4 ohm dual voice coil speaker it can be wired two ways to be either 2 or 8 ohm:
Or for 8 ohm:
The rules are all different if you go with a single voice coil. If it says 4 ohm it appears that is the only way the charts say it set up.
Thanks for the advice ...
Now those of you who already knew all this when you set up your single sub system. Tell me your exact speaker/amp combination?
Charles
The charts explain how to wire if single voice coil or dual, 2 or 4 ohm (even 8 straight, etc).
This charts shows that with my amp (Punch 2002) I would need the 2 x 2 Ohm Dual Voice Coil. It shows how to wire that one to get to 4 ohm and it also shows how you could wire it to 1 ohm (if so compelled).
Here is the same speaker wired slightly different to make it 1 ohm:
Now as said earlier if I stayed with the speaker the kid at Mobil One suggested the 2 x 4 ohm dual voice coil speaker it can be wired two ways to be either 2 or 8 ohm:
Or for 8 ohm:
The rules are all different if you go with a single voice coil. If it says 4 ohm it appears that is the only way the charts say it set up.
Thanks for the advice ...
Now those of you who already knew all this when you set up your single sub system. Tell me your exact speaker/amp combination?
Charles
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Better Solution
Alright -- I think I am on to something now.
If I wanna stay with the Alpine SWR-1042D which is the 10" Dual Voice Coil (2 x 4 Ohm) I can run it as a 2 OHM (see below):
And I have taken your suggestion and I am going with the Alpine Mono Amp Model MRP-M350. It is 350 Watts at 2 Ohm. This is more power and better suited for the Sub woofer.
•14.4V RMS Continuous Power
2ohm; (0.3% THD) 350W x 1
• S/N Ratio 90 dBA
• 24dB LP (50Hz) Crossover
• Subsonic Filter
• Bass Engine®
• 4 Volt Input Capability
• STAR Topology
• Darlington Bi-Polar Outputs
• MOSFET Power Supply
• Speaker Level Input
• Blue Power Status LED
Of course now one of you guys is gonna tell me running 2 ohms is negative in some way. But along this trek I am getting smarter.
Charles
If I wanna stay with the Alpine SWR-1042D which is the 10" Dual Voice Coil (2 x 4 Ohm) I can run it as a 2 OHM (see below):
And I have taken your suggestion and I am going with the Alpine Mono Amp Model MRP-M350. It is 350 Watts at 2 Ohm. This is more power and better suited for the Sub woofer.
•14.4V RMS Continuous Power
2ohm; (0.3% THD) 350W x 1
• S/N Ratio 90 dBA
• 24dB LP (50Hz) Crossover
• Subsonic Filter
• Bass Engine®
• 4 Volt Input Capability
• STAR Topology
• Darlington Bi-Polar Outputs
• MOSFET Power Supply
• Speaker Level Input
• Blue Power Status LED
Of course now one of you guys is gonna tell me running 2 ohms is negative in some way. But along this trek I am getting smarter.
Charles