Because America. You trolling or what dude?

 

Best answer ever.

 

Yeah, I see you know about installer error. Lol. Pointing that sub at the back window, lol. And the JL amp died on you? I told you JL isn't reliable. And you said the w7 didn`t sound good and still hyping JL? Two ways as rear fill is not a good idea. Mixing brands on coaxials will never sound good. They are not temper matched. Those Poineer HU are not good anymore. Get a Kenwood and you won't need a dsp. You spent a ton of money chasing a sound you'll never be happy with. I been there. But atleast you are enjoying the hobby. And you do not need nitro with all that heavy *** gear and sound deadener.

 

Dude I ran that Slash amp for 14 years. The only thing that "went out" is the gain pot which can be fixed with some solder. Nothing wrong with the dub-7...in my Tahoe. It just didn't sound good in the vette. And I don't have two ways in the rear...I was the one that recommended AGAINST doing that after I tried them and didn't like them. Read my WHOLE thread and you'll see that this has been an evolving system with a lot of trial and error. I'm trying to help the community by posting the experience I've gained from attempting an SQL build in a vette. If you don't find it useful, cool. Move on to something else.

 

The only comment I want to make is that I get a kick out of posters that want to tell others who have been there, done it, got the t-shirt what gear is the most reliable, what gear sounds the best etc.., etc..., are most likely of the younger generation who have probably heard nothing but compressed digital music, and think their ears are trained to make that call or maybe it's just cause they read it somewhere on one of the forums. Have many of these folks ever heard true audiophile quality sound/music? Doubtful if many. If you haven't, then you probably can't perceive the ever so subtle distinctions between truly good sound quality and just average. If you are into an SPL build so be it. Have fun, make it clean and loud. Have you made it high end? Not necessarily. Different strokes for different folks. I like occasional SPL and bass that goes right through ya like the next guy but nothing pleases my senses more or makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up than true sound quality. How many of you have even heard music on $5000 turntable through a $8000 tube amp to a $25,000 pair of speakers? Not many I suspect. My point is Ronin is one of those been there done that guys who has great technical knowledge in the car audio realm. This thread is interesting, educational and great to have on a vette forum. I love car audio as much as my car so enjoy learning more about it. Things have changed a lot since I managed a high end audio/electronics store but I did it long enough to know a thing or two about good sound and I like the tech side delivered by threads like these that helps me keep up with the technology. Just my .02. No offense intended to anyone just an observation.

 

Uhh..

No.

 

I wish I could put my B&K system and Kef speakers in my car but they don't fit...

Just picked up new Kenwood Excelon head units to start the upgrade process on the Vette and the Wrangler at the same time.

 

Yep. I grew up playing live instruments in various bands, attending concerts ranging from rock to symphony, so that remains my standard of "what it should sound like" when listening to speakers anywhere. I remember the first time I went into a real Hifi store locally and they let me listen to one of my live CD's on $25k of Krell and B&W hardware back in 1995. It forever changed my viewpoint of sound reproduction as I continued through engineering school and learned the physics and electrical engineering behind sound reproduction.

The hard lesson here is that cars are frankly a terrible environment for music with all the odd speaker placements, biased distances, reflective surfaces, and strange resonances. When relatively simple layouts sound like magin in a properly treated room, we sometimes need heroic measures in a car to get somewhere close to normal again. At least bass is easier in the car, SOMETIMES.

Ronin has done a good job documenting his journey here. As a guy who has also never been able to leave various stereos alone for 20+ years, I can appreciate the ironic humor of a thread titled "Finished my install" going on for another two years.

I just hope the new guys reading this stuff are able to filter out the signal from the noise here. There are some really good lessons amidst all this discussion.

 

Thanks for the kind comments gents. And per usual...more changes coming SOON.

 

You won't be disappointed. I just the put the DNX997XR in my sound deadened Z06 and it is fantastic.

 

SPOILER! Because I can't wait to share! In my constant quest of searching for the perfect audio solutions for the C6, I've made a decision to change up my combo (yet again). This is not a HUGE change per se...but it hopefully will pay dividends in the never ending journey that is finding grin-inducing mid-bass. If you look below, I've attached the frequency response graphs for my current drivers, as well as the ones I'm switching to. Now I will say, this is not a PERMANENT switch unless I achieve the sound I'm after. The theory behind the graphs goes like this. Ideal driver conditions (IE where the driver is happiest) is represented by flatness on the frequency chart. Once the line starts climbing, fluctuating, waving, or dropping rapidly, you are reaching the unhappy zone for the driver. Typically, they display beaming as well which is often portrayed by a different color line, or dotted, or some other way that is easily discernable. Now, beaming isn’t typically a problem with bigger drivers at lower frequencies (IE sub’s and larger drivers), but it becomes a much larger problem with smaller drivers. This is why you always attempt to point a tweeter directly at your nugget (head) to reduce beaming as much as possible. Notice that the black lines in these pictures (represent 0 degrees of axis, or driver pointed right at the microphone) gives the best performance. Also notice the lines don’t separate until the higher frequencies. This is where beaming comes into play. However, I don’t have to worry about beaming as I choose to operate these drivers in the frequencies NOT AFFECTED by beaming. My current tune has my woofers driving from 75 Hz to 716 Hz. Worth noting, my driver doesn’t begin roll off at 75 Hz, it has already began the roll off well above that, closer to 150-250 Hz. Typically, it’s 1 octave higher than the target cut-off depending on slope used. In my case I’m running a 24 db LR slope on the high pass. So, with all that said, when comparing these two drivers, you can see how flat the 8” driver reproduces the frequencies I’m asking them to play. Put simply, the 8” driver is PERFECT in the range I need it to be. It plays nice and flat all the way down to ~60 Hz (the Fs of the driver is 37.7 Hz). The Fs of the Focal is 55 Hz. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but it really is. This means that the 8” driver is MORE EFFICIENT in the lower frequencies than the 6.5” driver is. I can really make them dig without worrying about hurting the driver. I can say I’m likely to adjust my curves to ~65 Hz – 5-600 Hz. I’m going to ask my mid-range (4” drivers) to play lower, which is no problem for them. This all should make the front stage have much more of a “warm feeling” without the sub having to inject mid-bass frequencies.

A few of the other T/S parameters favor the 8" driver. First is Xmax. 5.3 mm with the Focal versus 6 mm for the Dayton. That doesn't sound like a lot until you factor in cone area. An inch and a half larger driver with .7 mm more excursion is huge. Also, power handling. The 8" driver operates in ideal conditions at 80W RMS. My amp only puts out 75W RMS (@ 4 ohms). So the Dayton is getting fed the perfect amount of power. The Focal operates best at 120W RMS. Obviously, I'm not driving them hard enough which is likely why the output feels like it's not there. Now this is NOT that fault of the Focals. Sure, I could bridge my amp (delete my rear channel all together, which I've done before) channels and feed them 150W RMS. But I still don't have the confidence that they would give me that solid mid-bass in the Corvette. They do in my truck...but that's a different conversation. So when comparing components (amp output, RMS power per channel, driver size options, etc.) the 8" Dayton is clearly the better choice of driver to run in my system. And I've already purchased them!

A quick word about sub tuning with the soon to arrive new drivers. I’m currently running a single 13TW5V2 from 20 Hz – 160 Hz. Personally, I don’t like driving them that high because it doesn’t ALWAYS sound good that way. Some tracks sound great while others are…meh. I’m hoping the move to the 8’s will allow me to drop the sub low pass to around 90 Hz because the new cone size and Xmax of the 8’s will provide the mid-bass output that is MUCH needed in this platform. In an earlier post, I mentioned that running the sub that high was a way of “cheating” to get more mid-bass support from the system as a whole. It’s not ideal, but it does work as kind of a band-aid for lacking mid-bass.



So that’s all for now. Stay tuned for the install and tuning.

Focal KX2 6.5" woofer

Dayton RS225P-4A 8" driver

 

I have to think those Dayton 8's with the aforementioned specs will absolutely pound the mid bass out of the doors allowing that 13TW5V2 to do its dirty work the way it was meant to. That driver may be a good candidate for my system as I do want to change my subwoofer configuration. It's not a break the bank price and is space saver for sure. Does it give you that solid low end you're looking for?

I can tell you this, I just have Rockford 6 3/4's in the doors and you would swear Neal Peart's toms are in my freakin doors. They have excellent accurate mid bass punch so I suspect those 8's will be demolishers!

 

I'll make sure to let you know. Install is coming. I got the notification they'll be here tomorrow. Will maybe get to install them this weekend.

 

Easier said than done in a C6 with the cancellations. I found that it didn't matter how big the mids were if they were fighting physics. I used to have 7" Daytons in my C6 back when I ran HLCDs and still had midbass issues then before I made the discovery about the nulls. Now, my 6" Morels are "outperforming" the larger drivers because I don't let them try and play too low into the cancellation range.

 

Man...don't tell me that Turbo. What nulls did you have? Mine seem to be at 120-140, 400, and 1000 Hz.

 

Are you going with one sub or two?

 

So bigger may not necessarily be better in this application (cabin of a C6)? I never thought of that but it makes sense...

 

Two for sure. Just not quite ready to have the enclosure built yet. Almost there...but not quite.

 

Speak to me about this theory of up firing a sub in a C6. I currently have a single 10 inch Hertz Mille Pro that I currently find lacking in output. Enclosure is built to manufacturers spec; .6 cu ft internal volume.

Are you suggesting that my output woes are due to the direction the sub is facing?

Current setup in photo.

 

Yes, as a matter of fact I am. I have noticed through extensive testing that when firing a sub upwards into the peculiar glass shape on the C6, that I experienced what I've come to call wave cancellation. Now it wasn't absolute cancellation...but it was a noticeable 3-6 db reduction (as high as 10 db in one test) in output from the sub. Try a little experiment. Go into your car and find a nice bass heavy song. Listen to it for about 10-15 seconds. Without turning it off, roll your windows down and listen for another 10-15 seconds, and then repeat. If the bass frequencies all of a sudden "sound louder" when the windows are down, you are suffering from the same problem I was. If you have measuring equipment, you should see a noticeable gain in db when the windows are down. Give it a try, and let me know.