wallyman424

#1, if i read correctly some of you are using the 3pt AND the 6pt at the SAME time? This is not good. Any harnessing mechanism should have 1 release latch.

#2, NASA just disallowed the use of sternum straps for the same reason. 1 button release.

AU N EGL

Many Clubs are now requiring that race harness must be installed on seats designed for use with race harness. And the harnesses must be routed though the proper holes in the seats.

ie Race seats and race harness. No modifications of stock seats.

Glad to see the NASA new tech rules on Race harness.

No sternum straps, as there needs to be ONE release mechanism

c4cruiser

There are harness belts out there that are not DOT-certified for street use (IIRC, Simpson is one that states their harnesses are not DOT certified). And some states do not accept a harness belt arrangement for satisfying mandatory seat belt laws.

Washington State is that way; state law prohibits the use of multi-point harnesses for street use. Only the factory-installed belts are considered to be "legal".

waddisme

That looks so simple and logical. Why would it not work? Seems like a quick way to get you harnessed in until you can get a real seat.

95jersey

How can one say this is not as safe as a race seat? I can understand that many folks come in with some pretty hacked out stuff, but this is a well thought out and put together system. Like this gentleman, I also have a problem with a 2LZ C6Z in that you can't replace the stock seat (airbag issue) without buying a Carravagio which is STILL not even a race seat. I would not want to spend $1200 per seat just to get 2 holes for harnesses? As far as the stock seat breaking, we'll I used a set of sparco's for about 4 years and to be honest, they were much flimsier than the stock seat. The fiberglass would creak and crack all the time under my 200lb weight.

I can understand PDA needing to be concerned about some kid in and EVO coming in with some hack up design, but you guys have to give the C6Z guys a little bit of a break. We literally have no choice in the matter and are TRYING to do the best we can. If the seat is going to break, we'll if I have a 3 point harness or a 6 point, not sure what difference it will make?

ace996

[QUOTE=95jersey;1564367863]

I can understand PDA needing to be concerned about some kid in and EVO coming in with some hack up design, but you guys have to give the C6Z guys a little bit of a break. QUOTE]

You C6Z guys wish you had the Evo seats...they're legal and probably the best stock seats on the market. If Chevy could only learn about the seats...

exracer28

With a car like the Corvette the seat back breaking is not the issue that it would be in a car with a back seat designed where the seat can fold back. Cheap aftermarket seats that may have seat belt slots built into the seat are not going to be any better than a modified stock seat. The slot is just a guide for the harness. Proper belt installation is very importation

95jersey

Exactly my point! The slot is there as a guide for the harness, it requires no structural integrity itself.

I do agree as well that EVO seats are better...heck seats out of Honda Accord are better!

AU N EGL

Most clubs follow the PCA and BMW tech rules.

IF your going to buy an 80K car, to take to the track. Get some real seats for your safety too.

95jersey

PCA and BMW do not allow you to run harnesses around a stock seat (for fear of spreading apart), but they do allow harnesses to pass through the seat if your stock seat allows such or has been modified to allow the pass through. What about cars like Sub's and Evo's that do have factory holes in their seats. Should they be banned since they are not a race seat? Like I said, getting a seat in a 2LZ C6Z is just more than spending $500 on a race seat, otherwise we would be doing it.

Bill Dearborn

One thing to remember when using the stock belts is the cinch feature GM provided. This allows the driver to get the lap belt tight enough to hold the lower body in place before heading out onto the track/course and the shoulder belt (at least on my two C5s) usually locks tightly into place as soon as the car accelerates quickly (as in coming out of pit lane). Admittedly, it isn't the same as having two belts over the shoulder but it is pretty close. I have run my C5 with stock belts, race harnesses going around the seat with a sternum strap to hold them in place and with the harnesses going through the seat back after I converted the seats to sport seat style. There truly wasn't that much difference due to the lack of leg support from the seat. Even with a complete harness the stock seat doesn't provide enough support for the legs so you are still bracing yourself against the door and console with your legs. Due to that lack of leg support I went to an Ultrashield seat which when installed properly keeps my legs in place and allows me to ride in the car Vs wedging myself into the car although it is taking some retraining on my part to keep legs down and in the seat.

As for race harnesses putting a vertical downward force on the stock seat when in a head on I doubt that would do much to the seat back as the hole in the seat frame is quite large and all that vertical force would do is compress some leather/vinyl/foam.

Bill

Steve L

So why is it so hard to put a race seat in your car ?

OCCOMSRAZOR

What I have discovered trying to make a "street / track" car is all of the compromises that are required.

Unfortunately, most of those compromises involve safety. There is equipment that is required to be safe on the track that is not safe for driving on the street and vice-versa.

When your life and potentially the lives of others are involved, why risk it for a few bucks?

Steve L

AU N EGL

That is also the big challenge for all of us. HP adders are Sexy. Safety items are not sexy but smart.

One car to do double duty, track events AND street driving is almost becomes more and more difficult to do.

95jersey

A C6Z06 with the 2LZ option has side impact airbags in the seats themselves. Removal of the either seats, has several significant consequences. First, it shuts down the entire saftey airbag system in the car and causes a massive set of codes on the dashboard. Then it locks the steering wheel and disables the columns telescoping ability. From here on in some cars, depending on build date, consequences are not all the same. Some have reported the car was unable to be driven, other report the above and minor headaches. Some report the car goes into handicap mode. Either way, it's UGLY and could be a big liability issue in the event of a crash. I am highly against disabling airbags and the cars built in saftey systems to satifsy some rule about harness passing through a seat grommets. Which do you think is the worse evil?

This is a very highly documented issue in the C6Z forum. This is also why the Carravaggio seats have become so popular. Apparently, they have developed a seat with an adapter that tricks the system. So, as long as you have $2000'ish per seat (not even real race seats), then you can get harnesses through the top of the seats. Also, the consequences beyond just the airbag system are not entirely known.

Most cars have side airbags in the pillars, only the Corvette I as I can tell has them in the seat, so this is a C6Z 2LZ only phenomina. I am not preppared to spend $2000 per seat to fix an electronic nanny. I actually find the stock seats ok, if they just had holes for some harnesses to pass through like the old C5 sport seats. So I can appreciate you need to make sure a design is safe, but the next time you see a C6Z with custom harness holes in the stock seats (maybe mine), this is why. I would hope that you would at least inspect their safety and allow me to run with at least this protection vs a stock seat belt in a 600hp monster. People run harness with stock seats all the time, two well placed and professionally installed grommets should not have an impact on saftey, if anything, they improve it.

RickF

I'm readying my 94 for the HPDE season and stumbled on this thread.

Can someone direct me to the relevant sections of the NASA GCR?

My brother and I have read and reread the NASA rules and can find no specific reference to harnesses with a race seat only or the single release rule as mentioned in this thread.

We have a roll bar with a 5 point harness with sternum strap using the stock seat. We also have a seat back brace. We have run NASA, PDA, and PCA events with no problems so far.

Thanks

Dave Deerson

The policy of stock seat/stock belts and race seat/race belts is not currently in the NASA NATIONAL GCR,however this type of requirement can and is being instituted by the separate regions nationwide,NASA Northeast being one of the first.
Dave Deerson
NASA Northeast Tech

fatbillybob

Only partly true. A kirkey will bend like a pretzel. Metal seats need to be supported. FIA plastic seats are ok unsupported for a fixed number of years like belts. Old plastic seats need to be supported.

rustyguns

I vote waiver and makes sure it includes family members, make everyone sign the damn thing! People live and people die but according to lawyers we all live forever!