What do you mean you arent attacking anyone, you are STILL attacking TwinTurbo! Someone that definately has a huge understanding of suspension design, our cars weaknesses, and how to fix them. You need to take a backseat to your superiority talk and read up on the c3's strengths and weaknesses before you continue. You WILL spend boatloads of money on near useless items otherwise, without addressing some of the main deficiencies of the car. Take the 4k you want to spend on rotors, an item that does wear and needs frequent replacement, and put that money to other areas of the car that really need it. Full weld the frame, gusset it, cage it, get a guldstrand 5 link rear, adjustable tubular arms like 72ray and TT both have, wilwood calipers, larger rotors, lightweight rims, etc. You could probably buy most of these items with the 4k that you wanted to spend on those gucchi rotors that may or may not do jack....

 

um what does bodes mean?

 

I think twin turbo is probally the smartest and most capable person here.I do agree with you in the 5 link and stuff. gucci rotors

 

I have most of that stuff you mentioned, patrolman. Red Devil also makes 6 piston calipers, in addition to the ti rotors. Their cost is about $1000 for the front calipers. They have 4 piston calipers for the rear at about $500 per wheel. I am not familiar with the guldstrand 5 link rear. I just looked it up and saw it. It looks strange and I wonder about the weight addition to the car. Has anyone here tried it and did they like it? Are there any magazine reviews of it?
Twin Turbo and others attacked me from the get-go for wanting to modify a C3. Not to boast, but I could very easily buy a C6 if I wanted to. Like I said earlier, it is more fun for me to build up a C3 that I have owned for over 20 years, than to go out and buy a C6. I also do not like the profile appearance of the C6 at all. That big fat rear is awful in my opinion.
I have seen the adjustable tubular arms before. What is the purpose of those? Are they made in titanium?

 

I doubt TT was attacking you for wanting to modify your car. He is far from being the NCRS type The Guldrand 5 link rear is similar to a c4 rear end design. It fixes the toe control problem our trailing arm design exhibits.

These pics are not of my car, I believe they are from forum member Jay M and his car.















http://www.guldstrand.com/5bar.htm

 

Thanks for the pics, patrolman! It looks like a sturdy setup but I just put on offset trailing arms and Eckler's racing smart strut setup in the rear. I think this should be sufficiently sturdy. I also notice that there is no sway bar.

 

About the Guldstrand 5 link rear. My belief, and I could be wrong, is that Guldstrand developed the 5 link rear as part of a project with GM to develop the C4 rear suspension. I've just heard some casual comments that people were happy with the Guldstrand suspension.

If you've got some bucks to spend, perhaps you should get one of the custom C3 frames that will accomodate either C4 or C5 suspension components. That's what I'd do in a flash. From previous threads, it appears that a rolling frame is something around $10,000. This apparently gets you a C3 with a C5 suspension. There are apparently two or more sources of these set-ups. I don't know which is the preferred.
...............

Titanium Factoid: The Russians have almost a monopoly on cheap Titanium. Remember the little Russian submarine that was trapped off of Kamchaka and was finally set free by a British robot submarine? The Russion mini-submarine was solid Titanium. They also produced attack high speed sub's that were all Titanium. In the old Soviet economy where labor and energy was all state controlled, the cost of producing Titanium was "negligable." (Not really true however in real economic terms.) ....althought titanium is "cheap" to the Russian government, they do not sell it cheap.

 

To each his own. I test drove a C6 and while a fine car, it was not significantly quicker (if any quicker) than my '69 (its 355 is heavily modified). It did ride better and handles somewhat better (I have 17" wheels and 45 series tires so my car handles well). Overall it was not really more thrilling or fun than my '69. The C3 bumper cars still look better to me than the C6s- but that is simply my opinion, again to each his own.

While I wouldn't spend $4K on Titanium rotors, I've seen people spend much more on their cars that do NOTHING for the performance or looks/comfort (again my opinion). If a guy wants less unsprung weight and can afford it he is free to go for it.

 

Other than all the bitching. I just don't have the money to take my car to the next level of totally race car. I still drive around and have fun.

It's worthless for me to go out to the local road racing track now unless I have Road Racing slicks and a 5-6 speed. I've used friends road racing and high speed tires in the past.

My 79 frame with mods and roll cage took it to the next level. You have to make a choice of trailor only or a hot rodded street car. The stiff cage really takes a C-3 into the road racing car. 72Vette passing Z-06 on a track is not a wonder. He has 434 ci SBC with 500 RWHP. I'm the same way Z0-6 with 405 hp crank doesn't stand a chance against raw power

I took a nice car and stepped so far over the line that I don't drive it down to the store for milk.

I drove out to the local race track to be a pit boy and went through 1/2 a 25 gallon tank in less than 100 miles. I go through $600 rear tires in a matter of months and use slicks for racing

 

I thought those looked familiar! thanks for posting them, did I email them to you?

I have had that installed for a little over a year now. It is awesome! but very expensive!! If you have the ability to install it yourself, the $2100 isn't too bad. None of the guys a Guldstrand knew how to install the kit, Dick himself had to walk them through it. It's not a simple bolt-on

It's hard to describe, but basically I would say that the rear end is now predictable. Before it had an evil mind of it's own, it would let loose when you least expect it!! Now it stays firmly planted unless you do something stupid, or try get sideways.

Oct. 5 I'm going to a driving school at the big track at Willow Springs....after that I can give a much better review. I hope one of the instructors will take it for a fast lap so I can see how it compares to all the Z06s that I'm sure will be there.

Another thing I just learned is how important tires are. I will NEVER buy cheap tires again, I had a popular brand before, and now I just bought Michelin Pilot sport PS2 and it feels like a whole different car now! the difference was like going from a stock C3 to a stock C4. The most supprising thing is that it doesn't follow the ruts in the road anymore. The difference in price between the michelins and the good "bang for the buck" tires was not that much. In fact I like them so much I plan on getting them for my DD also.

BTW, I think my wife's trike has ti brakes... and it does stop on a dime

but seriously, did anyone read that forum that I osted a link to? It was a very interesting discussion.

The ti guy claims that reducing the rotating mass, and the good heat dissipation makes a huge difference on the race track.

maybe Alex will be the first here to try it.

I am anxious to see how my stock brakes with a hydroboost work at the race track. I don't plan on pushing it too hard because I have no roll bar, and I do want to come home in one piece afterwards.

I think for agressive street driving the stock works fine, but I'll soon know how they do at the track. I know that the serious track guys on the forum insist that you need to upgrade to compete.

ok...it's late and I'm rambling!

~Jay

 

Let me get this right you are going to fit titanium rotors to reduce the unsprung weight then fit these wheels? I can see you really have got the unsprung weight business sussed.

 

JayM you sent me the pics through email a long while ago. Very trick setup you have there. Good luck out on the track

 

the pic w/ lateral-g.net on it is from mario lanza's C2 over on lateral g, he too has the guldstrand setup and a very nice vette. Go check it out. http://www.lateral-g.net/lanza/

 

Oh, I was wondering why that pic was a different size and said lateral-g :o

 

Graemeinvette, in response to your witless sarcasm; the wheels and tires may be on the large end of the spectrum, but the wheels are aluminum and the Boyd C. model I picked out is very light. The center is mostly air which is good for brake cooling as well as light weight. Whatever the tires weigh is necessary to bring handling up to par with current cars. No matter how you look at it, the Ti rotors and aluminum calipers will remove about 14 pounds from each wheel and stop the car much more quickly.

 

Holey Smokes where did this thread come from!

Alexarz;
You are grossly misinformed. there are SO many things you should be doing to a C3 before you Spend 4k on a set of rotors.

1. Chuck the boyds, get some real wheels...
2. Full cage, the C3 frame is a wet noodle without it.
3. Wilwood brakes for ~$1000
4. Taller front spindles so you have a decent camber curve.
5. The rear suspension mods, mentioned above

If you do the above and you see a C5 ZO6 in your rear view mirror, please let them pass, there will still be no contest. I have a pretty healthy car and a ZO6 on a high speed course is in a different world, sorry.

If it's a C6 ZO6, you won't have to worry about letting them pass, they won't even notice you.

Oh lastly..
PLEASE explain to me how rotors can decrease the coeficent of friction of the tire to the road?
The much quoted 100-0 stopping distance is such an awefull way to measure brake performance. It is totally dependant on the tire. I mean even the stock brake system has enough torque to lock the wheels at any speed.

On a car with ABS ( the only decent way to measure 100-0) the brakes are run at their optimum torque and all that is left is the tire / road interface. Changing rotors / pads / calipers doesn't change that.

 

Iron rotors with aluminum hubs are also a good idea. VB&P is a reseller so I'm not sure who actually makes them.

In your 255/40 front tires I would by the Goddyear F1's
In the rear I would go with Pirrelli or what i usually buy is p-8000's


335/35 YR17
106Y SL 140 A A
2094 lbs.
51 psi
11/32"
34 lbs. 11-13"
11"
13.4"
NA
26.2"
799

 

I think VBP either makes them in house or contracts them out.
When I bought a pair they had to get a set made, they don't stock them aparently...

 

I don't agree with this statement:I mean even the stock brake system has enough torque to lock the wheels at any speed.

With larger diameter AA traction 17 inch Z-rated tires I can't get the fronts to lock up and rears will only lock up at less than 120 mph

 

Should someone bring up Merlin?
















Oh, wait. I just did.