Devaluation effect
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Sugarland TX
Devaluation effect
Question, what devaluation effect, if any, would apply to a #s matching engine that has one cylinder sleeved? I guess also it would be interesting to understand the impact on the value of #s matching car in which engine has been rebuilt w/ non-factory original internal components (pistons, valves, cam, etc.). One of my tri-power carbs misbehaved and spewed too much fuel into the #4 cylinder causing it to crack.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,110
Likes: 4,173
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi R68,
Isn't it pretty diifficult to determine what's been done to an engine internally. The cylinder case casting number, casting date, and stamped information are what determine the engines originality to a specific car.
I'd think you might want to tell a prospective buyer about the sleeve, but I don't think it affects the engine's originality to the car.
Regards,
Alan
Isn't it pretty diifficult to determine what's been done to an engine internally. The cylinder case casting number, casting date, and stamped information are what determine the engines originality to a specific car.
I'd think you might want to tell a prospective buyer about the sleeve, but I don't think it affects the engine's originality to the car.
Regards,
Alan
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,487
Likes: 10
From: Palm Beach Florida
St. Jude Donor '12
I have been reading up on the C-3's. I read that numbers matching isn't so popular with the NCHS=is that correct? NCHS. I have read that it is feasable to stamp a casting number on any block to make one think that it is original. And that it's been done in the past. Which then would make two engines with the same number. As for value. I am a firm believer somthing is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Just because a certain car sold at an auction for a certain price, dosn't mean a similar car is worth that. It all comes down to what the economics are for that time, and the demand for a certain object. Thats just my opinion, you know what they say about opinions right? LOL.
Administrator
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 53,923
Likes: 6,179
From: About 1100 miles from where I call home.
I have been reading up on the C-3's. I read that numbers matching isn't so popular with the NCHS=is that correct? NCHS. I have read that it is feasable to stamp a casting number on any block to make one think that it is original. And that it's been done in the past. Which then would make two engines with the same number. As for value. I am a firm believer somthing is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Just because a certain car sold at an auction for a certain price, dosn't mean a similar car is worth that. It all comes down to what the economics are for that time, and the demand for a certain object. Thats just my opinion, you know what they say about opinions right? LOL.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,487
Likes: 10
From: Palm Beach Florida
St. Jude Donor '12
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,110
Likes: 4,173
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi d,
I think what VB was referring to was your point about the casting number.
There are really four pieces of information that are looked at on the cylinder case. (Yes, that's actually what GM called it).
The casting number and casting date (with shift) was CAST into the iron when the case was cast. They're on the rear flange of the engine, behind and below the heads.
The stamp pad is on the cylinder case in front of the right hand valve cover and is a smooth 'broach' surfaced pad. 2 series of letters and numbers were STAMPED there with stamps held in gang holders. The first number is a date for when the engine was actually built and to what specifications. The specifications were determined by a 2 or 3 letter 'broadcast' code. The second string of letters and numbers were the VIN derivative, they tell the serial number of the car the engine was going to be installed in.
I hope this helps your understanding!
Regards,
Alan
I think what VB was referring to was your point about the casting number.
There are really four pieces of information that are looked at on the cylinder case. (Yes, that's actually what GM called it).
The casting number and casting date (with shift) was CAST into the iron when the case was cast. They're on the rear flange of the engine, behind and below the heads.
The stamp pad is on the cylinder case in front of the right hand valve cover and is a smooth 'broach' surfaced pad. 2 series of letters and numbers were STAMPED there with stamps held in gang holders. The first number is a date for when the engine was actually built and to what specifications. The specifications were determined by a 2 or 3 letter 'broadcast' code. The second string of letters and numbers were the VIN derivative, they tell the serial number of the car the engine was going to be installed in.
I hope this helps your understanding!
Regards,
Alan
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,487
Likes: 10
From: Palm Beach Florida
St. Jude Donor '12
Hi d,
I think what VB was referring to was your point about the casting number.
There are really four pieces of information that are looked at on the cylinder case. (Yes, that's actually what GM called it).
The casting number and casting date (with shift) was CAST into the iron when the case was cast. They're on the rear flange of the engine, behind and below the heads.
The stamp pad is on the cylinder case in front of the right hand valve cover and is a smooth 'broach' surfaced pad. 2 series of letters and numbers were STAMPED there with stamps held in gang holders. The first number is a date for when the engine was actually built and to what specifications. The specifications were determined by a 2 or 3 letter 'broadcast' code. The second string of letters and numbers were the VIN derivative, they tell the serial number of the car the engine was going to be installed in.
I hope this helps your understanding!
Regards,
Alan
I think what VB was referring to was your point about the casting number.
There are really four pieces of information that are looked at on the cylinder case. (Yes, that's actually what GM called it).
The casting number and casting date (with shift) was CAST into the iron when the case was cast. They're on the rear flange of the engine, behind and below the heads.
The stamp pad is on the cylinder case in front of the right hand valve cover and is a smooth 'broach' surfaced pad. 2 series of letters and numbers were STAMPED there with stamps held in gang holders. The first number is a date for when the engine was actually built and to what specifications. The specifications were determined by a 2 or 3 letter 'broadcast' code. The second string of letters and numbers were the VIN derivative, they tell the serial number of the car the engine was going to be installed in.
I hope this helps your understanding!
Regards,
Alan
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
2027 Corvette vs The World: Every Model vs Closest Competitor
Joe Kucinski
10 Most Common Corvette Problems of the Last 20 Years!
Joe Kucinski
5 MOST and 5 LEAST Popular Corvette Model Years in History!
Joe Kucinski
2027 Corvette Buyer's Guide: Everything You Need to Know!
Joe Kucinski
10 Things C8 Corvette Owners Hate (But Won't Tell You)
Joe Kucinski
10 Best Corvettes Coming to Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach 2026!
Brett Foote
Every Corvette Grand Sport Explained! (C2, C4, C6, C7, & C8)
Joe Kucinski
Grand Sport & Grand Sport X Launch Alongside All-New 535hp LS6 V8!
Michael S. Palmer
5 Reasons Bad Drivers Crash & 5 Ways to Avoid a Costly Mistake!
Joe Kucinski
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
I have been reading up on the C-3's. I read that numbers matching isn't so popular with the NCHS=is that correct? NCHS. I have read that it is feasable to stamp a casting number on any block to make one think that it is original. And that it's been done in the past. Which then would make two engines with the same number. As for value. I am a firm believer somthing is only worth what someone is willing to pay. Just because a certain car sold at an auction for a certain price, dosn't mean a similar car is worth that. It all comes down to what the economics are for that time, and the demand for a certain object. Thats just my opinion, you know what they say about opinions right? LOL.
The selling price will ultimately be what someone is willing to pay. A non numbers matching car can't really be compared to numbers matching to get an idea of average sale price. The non numbers matching will not interest collectors, making a smaller market. My 2 cents anyway..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,672
Likes: 6
From: Nevada City California
Red68Tri,
I believe there is a big devaluation when an engine that is supposedly the "original numbers matching" is not configured exactly as GM built it. As an example a friend bought a '68 L-68 coupe for 25K. After bringing it home and tearing into it, he discovered that all 8 cylinders had been sleeved back to stock bore having sleeves .70 overbore. A lunati camshaft, aftermarket valvetrain, crankshaft undersize, aftermarket replacement pistons, etc., etc.
The original numbers cylinder case was the only original part of the car, along with a cracked intake manifold under the center service dated carbs. The value of the original numbers matching engine was pretty useless with all the other componentry changed out, it was a far cry from GM originality; and its claim and inference as an original engine because of an original stamping on the front pad was quite askewed as bringing more money because of it.
I believe there is a big devaluation when an engine that is supposedly the "original numbers matching" is not configured exactly as GM built it. As an example a friend bought a '68 L-68 coupe for 25K. After bringing it home and tearing into it, he discovered that all 8 cylinders had been sleeved back to stock bore having sleeves .70 overbore. A lunati camshaft, aftermarket valvetrain, crankshaft undersize, aftermarket replacement pistons, etc., etc.
The original numbers cylinder case was the only original part of the car, along with a cracked intake manifold under the center service dated carbs. The value of the original numbers matching engine was pretty useless with all the other componentry changed out, it was a far cry from GM originality; and its claim and inference as an original engine because of an original stamping on the front pad was quite askewed as bringing more money because of it.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Red68Tri,
I believe there is a big devaluation when an engine that is supposedly the "original numbers matching" is not configured exactly as GM built it. As an example a friend bought a '68 L-68 coupe for 25K. After bringing it home and tearing into it, he discovered that all 8 cylinders had been sleeved back to stock bore having sleeves .70 overbore. A lunati camshaft, aftermarket valvetrain, crankshaft undersize, aftermarket replacement pistons, etc., etc.
The original numbers cylinder case was the only original part of the car, along with a cracked intake manifold under the center service dated carbs. The value of the original numbers matching engine was pretty useless with all the other componentry changed out, it was a far cry from GM originality; and its claim and inference as an original engine because of an original stamping on the front pad was quite askewed as bringing more money because of it.
I believe there is a big devaluation when an engine that is supposedly the "original numbers matching" is not configured exactly as GM built it. As an example a friend bought a '68 L-68 coupe for 25K. After bringing it home and tearing into it, he discovered that all 8 cylinders had been sleeved back to stock bore having sleeves .70 overbore. A lunati camshaft, aftermarket valvetrain, crankshaft undersize, aftermarket replacement pistons, etc., etc.
The original numbers cylinder case was the only original part of the car, along with a cracked intake manifold under the center service dated carbs. The value of the original numbers matching engine was pretty useless with all the other componentry changed out, it was a far cry from GM originality; and its claim and inference as an original engine because of an original stamping on the front pad was quite askewed as bringing more money because of it.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,481
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,487
Likes: 10
From: Palm Beach Florida
St. Jude Donor '12
Thanks, I am. Just recieved "Corvette C3 1968-1982 Buyer's Guide" and "Collector's Originality Guide Corvette 1968-1982" Hard to retain all the numbers and engine choices for the early years. I guess over time it will become natural, just like when I was learning about camaro's back in the day's..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
I've rarely heard of sleeving. Wondering how reliable this repair is assuming a competent machinist installed them. I'd feel uneasy with a sleeved block unless I could be reassured the operation has a high success rate. Just asking...
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,481
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Birthplace of Legends Peter LiCastro All about St. Louis.
Rick Bizzoco's 1969 Guidebook http://www.cranescorvette.com/1969_s..._guidebook.htm
Judging guides form the NCRS are also good reading.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,110
Likes: 4,173
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi d,
Yes, there were numbers on the water pump and alternator too.
Actually there were part numbers and dates on many, many parts.
I'll just name a few: (some have one or the other and some have both) some radiators, hoses, fan clutches, intake and exhaust manifolds, carburators, distributors, starters, transmissions, some body panels, windshield and window glass, gauges, seat covers, door trim panels, wheels, tires, and more.
It can be very interesting or it can drive you crazy. For some people it's both.
Have fun!!!!
Regards,
Alan
Yes, there were numbers on the water pump and alternator too.
Actually there were part numbers and dates on many, many parts.
I'll just name a few: (some have one or the other and some have both) some radiators, hoses, fan clutches, intake and exhaust manifolds, carburators, distributors, starters, transmissions, some body panels, windshield and window glass, gauges, seat covers, door trim panels, wheels, tires, and more.
It can be very interesting or it can drive you crazy. For some people it's both.
Have fun!!!!
Regards,
Alan
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,487
Likes: 10
From: Palm Beach Florida
St. Jude Donor '12
Hi d,
Yes, there were numbers on the water pump and alternator too.
Actually there were part numbers and dates on many, many parts.
I'll just name a few: (some have one or the other and some have both) some radiators, hoses, fan clutches, intake and exhaust manifolds, carburators, distributors, starters, transmissions, some body panels, windshield and window glass, gauges, seat covers, door trim panels, wheels, tires, and more.
It can be very interesting or it can drive you crazy. For some people it's both.
Have fun!!!!
Regards,
Alan
Yes, there were numbers on the water pump and alternator too.
Actually there were part numbers and dates on many, many parts.
I'll just name a few: (some have one or the other and some have both) some radiators, hoses, fan clutches, intake and exhaust manifolds, carburators, distributors, starters, transmissions, some body panels, windshield and window glass, gauges, seat covers, door trim panels, wheels, tires, and more.
It can be very interesting or it can drive you crazy. For some people it's both.
Have fun!!!!
Regards,
Alan
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 34,448
Likes: 659
From: Republic of Texas
I don't often hear of blocks being sleeved unless theres something very special about the block, very rare or in this case, has the right serial number. Wondering whether the machinist can make any guarantee as to the success of the repair? Assume the sleeves were necessary because one or more cylinders cracked. If there was a crack, can it be stopped for certain? If the block had been bored to max, sleeves put in to renew the block, is there risk of future problems?
I've rarely heard of sleeving. Wondering how reliable this repair is assuming a competent machinist installed them. I'd feel uneasy with a sleeved block unless I could be reassured the operation has a high success rate. Just asking...
I've rarely heard of sleeving. Wondering how reliable this repair is assuming a competent machinist installed them. I'd feel uneasy with a sleeved block unless I could be reassured the operation has a high success rate. Just asking...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 111
From: Tolland CT
I don't think I've ever seen a sleeved block nor do I know anyone who has had it done. Could be expensive I guess, not done unless there's good reason to save the block? Other than race motors...