Let's say I buy an average, numbers matching small block, 4speed. 2yrs later the motor and transmission need rebuilding, and Ive decided to completely fix the electrical system. My car at hwy speed does 2900rpm and Im getting 15mpg.

Do I want to spend a few thousand $$$ on rebuilding the original parts, or should I spend a little more and and update the car with new/better stuff. That is a judgement call. There would also be much debate about which route is best for resale value. A new crate motor and 5 speed would be the choice of many.

People tinker with their home all the time. Not every project is evaluated on resale value, though some offer a better return than others.

 

A lot has been said on the numbers matching subject. I have been in the hobby for over forty years. What I see to be true is, the price will not be that different on a numbers matching 71 car with a base model 350 in it compared to a non matching numbered car.
But, as you start adding options, lets say a 454, 4-speed, A/C, roadster, with black interior and red paint. This car numbers matching in going to have a huge effect on price.
If you are just in it for the fun and want a driver, do not worry about numbers matching. If you plan on dumping some money into the car to make it much nicer, which you will if you intend to or not, save your money and buy a nicer car than a base model automatic. You will do much better in getting a little of your money back.
Remember, if you buy a base model driver, that is fine. But remember when you go to sell it, that is what you will be selling. So do not expect to get a ton for it.
My point is; you have to decide what you want the car for. Whatever you choose to buy, just enjoy it. Everybody is different.
I have bought and sold a lot of Corvette's over the years. Of all of them, I have kept two of the rarest numbers matching cars I ever owned.
Also, over the past five years I have watched my so called numbers matching cars drop 50K to 60K. But I do not own then to make money. I own them because I enjoy them. Otherwise I would sell them now as I am sure they will be worth a lot less in ten more years.
Jusy have fun with whatever you buy.

 

There are way bunches more Camaros than Corvettes and that gives you more candidates for transplants.

 

MODIFICATIONS ARE FINE FOR THE CARS. iF YOU PLAN TO MODIFY ONE, IT IS BEST TO DO IT TO A BASE MODEL CAR SO YOU ARE NO GOING TO REALLY HURT THE VALUE THAT MUCH. YOU MIGHT EVEN MAKE IT WORTH A LITTLE MORE.
As far as driving an original car or trailering it around, I my opinion, which is just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it, I have a 63 fuelie that is restored. It will spend a few years on a trailer and go to car shows. after that, it will be driven.
I learned this the hard way. I have a 72 454, 4-speed,A/C, PW Tilt, PB, red with black deluxe interior. It has just over 35,000 miles on it. it is very original. I drove it very little to keep the miles down and keep the car really nice.
Then, I was involved in a bad car accident. Not the corvette. That is when I realized, FOR ME, it was really stupid to not drive the car. The accident changed my life. I enjoy the hell out of the car now by driving it.
As I look back, My son would have ended up with two really nice cars. Now I look at it like this. I hope before I die that I can drive the 63 and the 72 into the ground. that way when my son gets them, he will have two great places to start his restorations on. They should need it again by then with any luck.
the very very hard to find parts, I have already purchased for his restoration. I figure in forty years there will not be any first three month production turn signals left at all, along with a few other rare parts that are almost impossible to find even now.
Bottom line, they were built to be driven. Get you Survivor Certificate on your car. Then just take very good care of it.
A lot of guys get enjoyment out of having a perfect cars. To do that, they need to trailer their cars around. That works for them. But it is not for me. Showing my car to a bunch of other Corvette owners only strokes your ego. But that works for some.
that is what is great about all this. We can all do what WE want,\Just have fun doing whatever you decide to do.

 

Yes, I am aware I have resurrected a 3+ year old thread.

Curious after three years if opinions have changed, and/or to hear new opinions from others.

I will start. I presently own a numbers matching base '71, that is not why I bought it though. I bought it because it was a rust free well taken care of car, in good driving condition, at a fair price.
My opinion on numbers matching is that as long as people have, and continue to re-stamp their engines, and as time passes (the numbers matching only crowd dwindling)there will be less emphasis on the importance of numbers matching cars. And personally I don't think that is a bad thing.
There always are exceptions of course (rare, BB, a/c, etc.).

 

I just commented on "numbers matching" on another thread, so might as well give it a go here. As long as some people are still interested in the NCRS judging process they will put a premium on "numbers matching" because that judging process involves checking a lot of numbers and dates to see if they are consistent with what was supposed to be on the car when it left the factory. But that doesn't really say anything about originality. I appreciate an original car. I enjoy looking at an original car, and maybe even checking the number on the carb or the engine. On the other hand, I don't get very excited about a "numbers matching part" that was purchased on ebay or borrowed from another car in order to make a different car "numbers matching." My 68 has its original engine... I think.. pretty sure, the engine pad looks very good, but I don't refer to my car as "numbers matching". There are too many parts whose numbers don't match. I checked the wheels. I think 1 or 2 of them have dates that preclude their being original to my car. The exhaust manifolds (now on the shelf, headers on the car) are the right # for 68 Corvette L36, but the dates on those also don't "match" the car. To me the term "numbers matching' and "original engine"... or original anything are 2 entirely different things.


Original spark plug wires on your bigblock? way cool! Reproduction correctly dated ("numbers matching")spark plug wires? YAWN!

I bought the new NCRS guide a couple of months ago, just for educational purposes, and turned to the seatbelt section. After 16 years of ownership, with the help of this guide I pretty much confirmed that one of my seatbelts is original to the car. At least the tag had the right date, and I seriously doubt the restorer tracked down a correctly dated seatbelt. That was pretty cool.

 

I completely agree that numbers matching and original are completely different concepts. Numbers matching could be a restamp. In fact, i would hope this would be one concept few people would argue.

I disagree with your idea of what numbers matching means, though. To me numbers matching means that numbers actually "match," as in the engine pad or transmission VIN derivative (could be a restamp, not necessarily the original) matches the VIN of the body. Period.

I dont agree that numbers that are correct or appropriate for a car, like an alternator's correct number or date, are "matching." Those are parts that can be replaced any time. Those are not matching numbers parts; they are correct parts. I don't make this distinction to "bicker about terminology." I think people have to determine if they are speaking the same language when they are discussing a car. If someone tells me their car is numbers matching, I'm thinking the stamped engine pad number matches the VIN tag. I need to know if he means the alternator and the wheels are correct.

The best reference I have to this is Mike Antonick's explanation of the term in the Corvette Black Book when he says, "more than any number, it is the engine's VIN derivative match (his emphasis in italics) to the vehicle number (emphasis mine) that constitutes matching numbers (his emphasis in italics) terminology."

At any rate, I'm fine with resurrecting an old thread if people want to discuss if their opinions have changed over time. Just as long as there's none of the personal insults that were in the first couple pages.

 

I wanted an original engine because of the history...as the saying goes, "they are only original once."

Lots of semantics about numbers matching. Some people incorrectly think that numbers matching means original. And some people do mean original when they say numbers matching. Gotta do the homework and check the VIN and numbers to be 100% sure...

 

it also depends on the car's actual value. a rubber bumper car like mine, not so much. plus as someone earlier mentioned they wanna be sure somebody didn't steal the vette motor and replace it with a 74 caprice engine. well, the folks in St Louis did that to my 75 the day they made it, and it IS vin corresct. that being said, a block is a block is a block. i can take my 270 ft lb torque 010 block and make it put out 500 if i want to. can do 4 bolt mains and full roller setup and it will still be correct orig vin on block. but if a car is never gonna be worth much more than 10k no matter how nice, correct orig parts isn't really an issue...i also saw a numbers matching 454 75 somewhere...

 

I bought my 79 26 years ago because I drove it for a weekend and loved it. Later I found its engine wasn't matching numbers and it bothered me but I got over it. I now have a fairly warmed up 355 and true dual exhaust on what was an L48 1979 Corvette with "snoozer" performance. I can understand people appreciating numbers matching but the 1979 now is really a better car and much, much more fun to drive than before

 

I've always owned non numbers matching C3's until my current one.. The value retention/increase is certainly better with a matching numbers car.. Sure, I paid probably about $5k more than I would have paid for a equivalent non matching numbers car but I could probably sell my car for what I paid for any day (or more)

 

When I bought my 74 in 2006 ,I verified the 454 was numbers matching and by the looks of the car,assumed all drivetrain was matching numbers.Nothing modified and rust free frame)I like to personalize my cars,but I had every intention of returning this one to stock status.Well,when I pulled the tranny to rebuild,it is not original(My stupidity,now I overpaid for the car!)l.Now I am going to build it custom.I would not modify a complete numbers matching drivetrain car simply out of respect and wanting to retain it's future value.Just my opinion.

 

There area plenty of non-numbers matching cars to use for restomods, and those anemic Corvettes from the late 70s & 80s you can drop a powerful engine in and have more fun.

 

wicked, the engine means a LOT more than the trans. trans is pretty much a trans. gets replaced cuz it broke. engines can have low perf crank, rods, pistons, cams, etc. trans just has wrong number stamped on it and takes a bit of climbing around to see it...

 

Funny thing is they are the same probably o noooo

I dont waste my time with worrying about value you could make more working a few extra hrs a week and know for sure you were getting paid.
I wonder how some people get through life agonizing and hand wringing over such things as is my overspray correct?

Sorry man had to.

 

I agree .

Engine is the heart of the car .

To me chassis is as important as trans if not more ....it has vin on it too . It is a major part of the whole car.

Also trans is Aluminum.. Much easier to restamp and detail than a block . I would not put a lot faith in one being original.

Cars with complete ecklers front or rear after market one piece clips should not be passed off as original. GM never made C2 corvette in that manor.

 

Steve, that is about the most clear and concise explanation of what the ubiquitous term "numbers matching" means in the world of classic cars. I have been telling people exactly that for years. Can't wait to see it reduced to an acronym for the sake of expediency. Can you imagine the BJ hawkers proclaiming "This jewel is all NM"....
Dennis

 

Hi,
I think it's interesting that the transmission 'pads' (flanges) weren't 'ground out' as engine pads were.
I believe the first stamp was typically "X'd" out and then a new stamp was done in a different place on the flange.
Did this have to do with the fact that the case was aluminum (soft) or access to the flange?
In this case…. which set of digits was x'd out originally?
Regards,
Alan

 

I'm a numbers matching corvette owner and I have made every attempt to keep it original but if it's a safety or reliability related thing I'm going to modernize it. Technology has improved greatly since these cars first rolled off the assembly line. Personally I'm all for modernizing any classic as long as it's done tastefully and the owner enjoys the car. Corvettes were made to be driven and enjoyed, not placed on a shelf under glass.

 

i have a feeling this was done at the factory. car was built, and trans didn't work. trans was changed and car left. THEN this trans was fixed, restamped and put in another car. Kind of shows GM's attitude towards trans numbers matches mine; they don't carry the importance of the engine stamp...