Numbers matching importance
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Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Columbus Ohio
Numbers matching importance
I'll be spending about 3 years looking for a Corvette and in the short time I've been keeping my eyes out, I've noticed something. Many of the 1st generation Camaros have held their value pretty well. And quite a few of those have had motor transplants that doesn't seem to drop the value all that much. On the other hand, I'm hard pressed to find as many Corvettes with transplants. Seems most owners hesitate to put crate motors in them or disturb a number's matching car. To me, it's not that important. I want a reliable driver with a good amount of horsepower. I'm a fan of the 71 and 72s, but not a fan of the lower compression motors. Am I alone or off on my thinking here? Sorry if this is a newbie question.
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From: Southbound
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Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Columbus Ohio
I reread my post and it wasn't that clear. I personally could care less about a numbers matching car. But seems live Corvette owners are more hesitant to disturb a #s matching car than say Camaro owners. But it doesn't seem to be effecting the Camaro values. I haven't seen many C3s with transplants so it's hard for me to judge if it makes a huge difference in value.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,399
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From: Olmsted Falls, Ohio
I had been looking for a C3 for 2 years and at the time funds were limited.
I looked at a lot of cars that were advertised as "numbers matching" when in fact they were not. The price for these hyped cars were all higher than they would have been for a non-numbers matching car.
When I finally found my 75 L-82 in 1998 I made sure the engine block, 4-speed close ratio tranny, and rearend were correct (dated & numbers) for the car. That was my preference, others may disagree. The intake manifold and carb (a real piece of crap) had been changed out but I didn't care since I planned on doing a top-end upgrade in a couple of years.
The leather seats were in great shape, the carpet not so much. So I had interior work to do.
And when the day comes to sell it I can say the engine block, tranny, and rearend are numbers matching and the interior has been restored. I will not be lying.
Will it make a difference? I don't think so.....
I looked at a lot of cars that were advertised as "numbers matching" when in fact they were not. The price for these hyped cars were all higher than they would have been for a non-numbers matching car.
When I finally found my 75 L-82 in 1998 I made sure the engine block, 4-speed close ratio tranny, and rearend were correct (dated & numbers) for the car. That was my preference, others may disagree. The intake manifold and carb (a real piece of crap) had been changed out but I didn't care since I planned on doing a top-end upgrade in a couple of years.
The leather seats were in great shape, the carpet not so much. So I had interior work to do.
And when the day comes to sell it I can say the engine block, tranny, and rearend are numbers matching and the interior has been restored. I will not be lying.
Will it make a difference? I don't think so.....
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The extent to which you need to care about matching numbers when looking for an older Corvette is to recognize that it has a profound impact on price. The fact is that a matching number Corvette is worth more so you need to pay more to get one.
It is also a fact that a non original motor car is just as much fun to drive and own. I own both. They are all a blast to drive, and in my opinion, neither is better than the other. However, the matching number car is worth more, all else being equal.
It is also a fact that a non original motor car is just as much fun to drive and own. I own both. They are all a blast to drive, and in my opinion, neither is better than the other. However, the matching number car is worth more, all else being equal.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Crossville TN
There are only two reasons (that I can think of) why "matching numbers" between engine and VIN are important:
1.) You place a high priority on purchasing a vehicle that is completely in the factory configuration as originally built.
2.) You want the vehicle you purchase to hold its "premium" value for later sale.
If neither of those issues is relevant to you, buy a non-matching car and pay a more reasonable price for it. When you sell it you will still be able to get similar money for it...assuming that the car/engine is fairly desirable and maintained well.
And, there are MANY folks who would prefer that a 40 year-old vehicle have a new, fuel injected modern crate engine for comfort, reliability, performance and a host of other reasons. You just don't hear about them on this Forum.
1.) You place a high priority on purchasing a vehicle that is completely in the factory configuration as originally built.
2.) You want the vehicle you purchase to hold its "premium" value for later sale.
If neither of those issues is relevant to you, buy a non-matching car and pay a more reasonable price for it. When you sell it you will still be able to get similar money for it...assuming that the car/engine is fairly desirable and maintained well.
And, there are MANY folks who would prefer that a 40 year-old vehicle have a new, fuel injected modern crate engine for comfort, reliability, performance and a host of other reasons. You just don't hear about them on this Forum.
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Really? Could have fooled me. My impression is the Mod Squadders, the 10 second Biggest Bang for the Buck gurus (you know, the na na na na na, mine is faster than yours crowd...tend to hang out in the Tech Section) AND the more clever than anyone else "NCRS Weenie Bashers" to be in the majority here.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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From: Columbus Ohio
Seems the matching crowd out weigh the nonmatching crowd by a big margin. When I'm looking at the classifieds, I'm hard pressed to find an older vette with a newer crate motor in it.
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From: Crossville TN
Rat, just so you know, my car probably has more original [to that car] parts on it than most NCRS Top Flight cars. I like for my car to appear "mostly" stock. But, I'm not **** about it to the point that all bare metal has to stay 'bare', supposedly 'factory applied' paint dabs are all in the right places and with the right paint color/hue 
, nor do I care about the color of the seals on my [replacement part] U-joints.
I think all car owners should do with their cars what they choose: stock, custom, mod. I like to look at all of them. But, I have trouble with some elitist fanatic 'fringe' (this does not include the bulk of the NCRS faithful) who spouts some contrived dogma on "What the Corvette factory really put on those cars." In reality, lots of things were done differently in the sub-assembly and assembly lines that are never documented or even considered as "valid" by NCRS records or judging.
So, you have your likes. I have my likes. I don't "bash" NCRS, but present my opinion about it. And, since this is an open Forum (not exclusive for NCRS folks), I'll continue to do that. So, you go ahead and throw "pot shots" whenever you want; it's a free country and a free Forum.
, nor do I care about the color of the seals on my [replacement part] U-joints.I think all car owners should do with their cars what they choose: stock, custom, mod. I like to look at all of them. But, I have trouble with some elitist fanatic 'fringe' (this does not include the bulk of the NCRS faithful) who spouts some contrived dogma on "What the Corvette factory really put on those cars." In reality, lots of things were done differently in the sub-assembly and assembly lines that are never documented or even considered as "valid" by NCRS records or judging.
So, you have your likes. I have my likes. I don't "bash" NCRS, but present my opinion about it. And, since this is an open Forum (not exclusive for NCRS folks), I'll continue to do that. So, you go ahead and throw "pot shots" whenever you want; it's a free country and a free Forum.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: DC Metro
DC Area Events Coordinator
The extent to which you need to care about matching numbers when looking for an older Corvette is to recognize that it has a profound impact on price. The fact is that a matching number Corvette is worth more so you need to pay more to get one.
It is also a fact that a non original motor car is just as much fun to drive and own. I own both. They are all a blast to drive, and in my opinion, neither is better than the other. However, the matching number car is worth more, all else being equal.
It is also a fact that a non original motor car is just as much fun to drive and own. I own both. They are all a blast to drive, and in my opinion, neither is better than the other. However, the matching number car is worth more, all else being equal.
What he said.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
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From: Ontario
When I look for a car I basically look for non numbers matching, so I'm not paying more for basically nothing. The engines these cars had were pathetically weak. If I'm getting terrible mileage anyway, might as well put some power behind it.
As soon as you change one thing its not original anymore anyway. It's silly how serious people are about this.
As soon as you change one thing its not original anymore anyway. It's silly how serious people are about this.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,000
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From: New York
I personally feel any corvette after 1974 needs its engine pulled and used as a boat anchor . It is an insult to the name corvette to have hp numbers that rate with todays snowmobiles 
Anyway , a nice ZZ4 beefed up tranny and well geared rear end is where it is at especially if it is done professionally and you end up with 100% of the car looking and working as it should just like the day it was built.
Anyway , a nice ZZ4 beefed up tranny and well geared rear end is where it is at especially if it is done professionally and you end up with 100% of the car looking and working as it should just like the day it was built.
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Team Owner
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From: Southbound
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If somebody says 'I could care less', does that mean he couldn't care less, or that there's still a bit of room for actually caring less? Kinda like a local expression up here where people say 'That's the dumbest (stupidest, nicest, biggest, etc) thing I've never seen'. 
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,189
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From: Tolland CT
Sellers learn quickly how some buzz words generate more attention, get more money. Up to the buyer to determine whether the car is as advertised.. I haven't bought a Corvette in nearly 30 years, hear many marketted as Numbers Matching aren't really so, buyer beware.I tend to feel the same but from what I've seen the market for 'pony' cars is stronger than for Corvettes. A Camaro in comparable condition fetches as much if not more $$ than a Corvette in similar configuration. Assume it's a nostalgia thing? I've noted the Camaro crowd doesn't appear to be as obsessed with numbers as the Corvette crowd. Explanation I read a while back was this came from a backlash, a reaction to modifications done to Corvettes when they were just another old car. The Corvette crowd, those paying big $$, seem to place higher value on absolute originality. An exact replacement won't due.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 741
Likes: 46
From: Hebron IN
I think the majority of Camaro owners are real car guys who do their own restorations or at the very least their own maintenance. Love it when I'm at a car show and they have monster book full of pictures showing a rotted hulk being brought back to life in their own garage.
Too many of the numbers matching Corvette crowd are worried about chipping a nail while changing out their brake pads and therefor we hear the term "my mechanic" from them all the time.
Too many of the numbers matching Corvette crowd are worried about chipping a nail while changing out their brake pads and therefor we hear the term "my mechanic" from them all the time.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 526
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From: Maine
I think the majority of Camaro owners are real car guys who do their own restorations or at the very least their own maintenance. Love it when I'm at a car show and they have monster book full of pictures showing a rotted hulk being brought back to life in their own garage.
Too many of the numbers matching Corvette crowd are worried about chipping a nail while changing out their brake pads and therefor we hear the term "my mechanic" from them all the time.
Too many of the numbers matching Corvette crowd are worried about chipping a nail while changing out their brake pads and therefor we hear the term "my mechanic" from them all the time.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,697
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From: Syracuse NY
I think the majority of Camaro owners are real car guys who do their own restorations or at the very least their own maintenance. Love it when I'm at a car show and they have monster book full of pictures showing a rotted hulk being brought back to life in their own garage.
Too many of the numbers matching Corvette crowd are worried about chipping a nail while changing out their brake pads and therefor we hear the term "my mechanic" from them all the time.
Too many of the numbers matching Corvette crowd are worried about chipping a nail while changing out their brake pads and therefor we hear the term "my mechanic" from them all the time.
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3rd gen Camaros are becoming harder to find, but they are still rather cheap to own due to production numbers. I never worried for a minute about 'matching numbers'.
Some Corvette owners seem to be more concerned with the resale value of their car than anything else. These also seem to be the 'numbers matching' crew. We are talking about 30 year old cars here, and some of these guys only want to have them around as a trophy. Matching numbers are only worth as much as the next guy will pay...aftermarket parts will perform just as well as the old stuff. I guess its all ones own choice, but my .02 is *most* of the matching numbers guys are more into investments and peacocking than just enjoying a hobby. (Because just spending money on a car isnt a hobby...)
Again, not stereotyping or calling anyone out. Just my .02. Thanks for reading.
And the Camaro is for sale, BTW. $4000 takes him home.