1970 ZR1 Question
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
I noticed a big block style rear sway bar. Real ZR1s had a big block style front sway bar but no rear sway bar. This is obviously a clone done by someone who didn't do all of his homework. It's hard to tell from the photos but the pad stamp seems off. It has been polished with something and the pad finish does not appear factory. The photos don't show the front caliper stiffening brackets. The rear sway bar, octane sticker, and alarm all point to it being a clone. I should call it a fake though because the seller is representing it as genuine.
I am still in the pee-wee class for judging.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
Yep! And I imagine the seller has a sense of excitement that someone may open the bidding. 
From the seller's response to the member he appears to really think they have the real deal. I wonder how much they paid for that car with all those "bells and whistles?" I mean it has been in storage for 42 years? Less than 10K?
From the seller's response to the member he appears to really think they have the real deal. I wonder how much they paid for that car with all those "bells and whistles?" I mean it has been in storage for 42 years? Less than 10K?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 148
From: Hunterdon Cty NJ
I noticed a big block style rear sway bar. Real ZR1s had a big block style front sway bar but no rear sway bar. This is obviously a clone done by someone who didn't do all of his homework. It's hard to tell from the photos but the pad stamp seems off. It has been polished with something and the pad finish does not appear factory. The photos don't show the front caliper stiffening brackets. The rear sway bar, octane sticker, and alarm all point to it being a clone. I should call it a fake though because the seller is representing it as genuine.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 38,923
Likes: 1,482
From: Southbound
Cruise-In II Veteran
Whether this car is an actual ZR-1 is of no consequence to anyone not bidding on it.
That's a Thumbs Up Smiley.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
I for one am interested if it is an actual ZR-1 even though I am not bidding on it. But that is just me.
Smiley withheld.
Last edited by theblackvette; Apr 5, 2014 at 10:28 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,189
Likes: 206
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C3 of Year
Any car/dealer out there is fair game to talk trash about to BV.........
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
Thanks for the award, however.....
I would like to thank the WB Awards Committee for giving me the Bashing Recognition Citizenship Award. However, it is with great sorrow and regret that I must return such award to the awards committee. I do not feel it is fair to the rest of the more educated than me members that I be so acknowledged individually. I just don't feel right about it. But, thank you so much for the thought.
Please know I did not start this thread. Best regards, BV
ZR1's did not have an option for a radio, and came with radio delete plate - which this car has - and did not have the shielding, and condensors that were part of the radio option.
One BIG thing the seller missed was that ZR1 also did not have the UA6 alarm option. I wonder what the sellers excuse for this one is? I'm going to send him a note, and ask how his car came with an option that was not available on ZR1's.
One BIG thing the seller missed was that ZR1 also did not have the UA6 alarm option. I wonder what the sellers excuse for this one is? I'm going to send him a note, and ask how his car came with an option that was not available on ZR1's.
Interesting that it has been in a "private collection" for 42 years--in other words, darn near since it rolled off the assembly line. Really? If so, it ought to be pretty easy to validate. But then again, with just one owner over all that time, why has everything been so meticulously (over)restored to the last detail? That's fairly atypical of something that sits in a guy's "collection" that long. And why in the world for something restored righ down to fake stickers were chintzy Hooker sidepipes left on it? Awful lot of weird questions for a six figure car.
I noticed a big block style rear sway bar. Real ZR1s had a big block style front sway bar but no rear sway bar. This is obviously a clone done by someone who didn't do all of his homework. It's hard to tell from the photos but the pad stamp seems off. It has been polished with something and the pad finish does not appear factory. The photos don't show the front caliper stiffening brackets. The rear sway bar, octane sticker, and alarm all point to it being a clone. I should call it a fake though because the seller is representing it as genuine.
I too noticed the stamp pad lack of pronounced broach marks. I too do not have a lot of experience with pads but have been doing some research on the subject, if only to satisfy my paranoia about the engine in my car. For those that have not looked into what a broach or the marks it leaves are its pretty interesting. I googled it up and saw the type that was used to "deck" the block. A big unit with both cylinder banks and intake surface in one piece (think of the "negative" image of the top of the block) that is pushed across the top of the block, pretty cool.
Last edited by theblackvette; Apr 5, 2014 at 02:06 PM.
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Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 637
Likes: 6
From: Maple Valley WA
I am flattered that I have received such individual recognition.
I would like to thank the WB Awards Committee for giving me the Bashing Recognition Citizenship Award. However, it is with great sorrow and regret that I must return such award to the awards committee. I do not feel it is fair to the rest of the more educated than me members that I be so acknowledged individually. I just don't feel right about it. But, thank you so much for the thought.
Please know I did not start this thread. Best regards, BV
I would like to thank the WB Awards Committee for giving me the Bashing Recognition Citizenship Award. However, it is with great sorrow and regret that I must return such award to the awards committee. I do not feel it is fair to the rest of the more educated than me members that I be so acknowledged individually. I just don't feel right about it. But, thank you so much for the thought.
Please know I did not start this thread. Best regards, BV
I'll take credit for starting this thread but I'll never apologize. Honestly, it's these types of threads that keep people on their toes when looking to buy a car. I stated earlier the wealth of knowledge regarding car details on the forum is simply amazing and should be leveraged when and where possible.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
It is not possible to my knowledge to determine if this is a ZR1 born car.
I have asked in an earlier posting if it is possible to determine if this is indeed one of the select 25 cars that came from the factory based on the pictures and description. Although there are some that are convinced, a door is always left opened that it COULD still be the real deal.
Perhaps there is someone out there that can come in here and say with 100 percent certainty that this is not a real ZR1 or that it is indeed a real one that had options added later based on the pictures and description.
I am not that person to make such a determination.
I have asked in an earlier posting if it is possible to determine if this is indeed one of the select 25 cars that came from the factory based on the pictures and description. Although there are some that are convinced, a door is always left opened that it COULD still be the real deal.
Perhaps there is someone out there that can come in here and say with 100 percent certainty that this is not a real ZR1 or that it is indeed a real one that had options added later based on the pictures and description.
I am not that person to make such a determination.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,943
Likes: 61
From: Southern NH
I am flattered that I have received such individual recognition.
I would like to thank the WB Awards Committee for giving me the Bashing Recognition Citizenship Award. However, it is with great sorrow and regret that I must return such award to the awards committee. I do not feel it is fair to the rest of the more educated than me members that I be so acknowledged individually. I just don't feel right about it. But, thank you so much for the thought.
Please know I did not start this thread. Best regards, BV
I would like to thank the WB Awards Committee for giving me the Bashing Recognition Citizenship Award. However, it is with great sorrow and regret that I must return such award to the awards committee. I do not feel it is fair to the rest of the more educated than me members that I be so acknowledged individually. I just don't feel right about it. But, thank you so much for the thought.
Please know I did not start this thread. Best regards, BV
Some of us like to have fun while discussing cars, especially through our long winters. 
Instructor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 105
Likes: 14
From: Chandler Arizona
It is not possible to my knowledge to determine if this is a ZR1 born car.
I have asked in an earlier posting if it is possible to determine if this is indeed one of the select 25 cars that came from the factory based on the pictures and description. Although there are some that are convinced, a door is always left opened that it COULD still be the real deal.
Perhaps there is someone out there that can come in here and say with 100 percent certainty that this is not a real ZR1 or that it is indeed a real one that had options added later based on the pictures and description.
I am not that person to make such a determination.
I have asked in an earlier posting if it is possible to determine if this is indeed one of the select 25 cars that came from the factory based on the pictures and description. Although there are some that are convinced, a door is always left opened that it COULD still be the real deal.
Perhaps there is someone out there that can come in here and say with 100 percent certainty that this is not a real ZR1 or that it is indeed a real one that had options added later based on the pictures and description.
I am not that person to make such a determination.
So how can you be certain that a car is the real deal? When it comes to rare and valuable cars be careful and assume a clone until proven otherwise! This car just has too much wrong for me to believe it to be the real deal. If I had the money to purchase a ZR1 I would keep looking.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,438
Likes: 41
From: Raleigh NC
St. Jude Donor '13-'14
Red is down the right path. I wouldn't go in assuming a car is a clone, but Alan's manta applies here: let the car tell the story. There are questionable items, foremost the engine stamp. Possibly wrong rear gears, alarm system that was not available. There aren't even pictures of what makes a ZR1 a ZR1. Were there any pictures of the calipers? Lack of tapped holes for radio ground straps? Small details.
If I was truly interested in buying a ZR1, I would probably pass.
If I was truly interested in buying a ZR1, I would probably pass.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
Red is down the right path. I wouldn't go in assuming a car is a clone, but Alan's manta applies here: let the car tell the story. There are questionable items, foremost the engine stamp. Possibly wrong rear gears, alarm system that was not available. There aren't even pictures of what makes a ZR1 a ZR1. Were there any pictures of the calipers? Lack of tapped holes for radio ground straps? Small details.
If I was truly interested in buying a ZR1, I would probably pass.
If I was truly interested in buying a ZR1, I would probably pass.
Murders can be solved with DNA analysis these days but there is no technology to determine with 100 percent certainty that this was born a ZR1? Very bizzare.....
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,606
Likes: 839
From: PA
I saw the car in person when it was at Carlisle last year.
It doesn't have features and equipment that it SHOULD have...
It has features and equipment that it SHOULDN'T have...
Add to that the Ray Charles stamp pad...
I didn't see the protecto-plate, but it wouldn't surprise me if it followed the pattern above.
Regards,
Stan Falenski
It doesn't have features and equipment that it SHOULD have...
It has features and equipment that it SHOULDN'T have...
Add to that the Ray Charles stamp pad...
I didn't see the protecto-plate, but it wouldn't surprise me if it followed the pattern above.
Regards,
Stan Falenski
Instructor
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 105
Likes: 14
From: Chandler Arizona
Let me ask you this then? If this car was PHYSICALLY looked at by expert corvette people could they determine if this is indeed one of the original 25? I am getting the impression the answer will be no. It sounds like what you are saying one could never know for certain whether it is looked at here or in person because there aren't pictures of what makes a ZR1 a ZR1.
Murders can be solved with DNA analysis these days but there is no technology to determine with 100 percent certainty that this was born a ZR1? Very bizzare.....
Murders can be solved with DNA analysis these days but there is no technology to determine with 100 percent certainty that this was born a ZR1? Very bizzare.....
We know what makes a real ZR1. This car has too much of what doesn't make a real ZR1.
It would be helpful if the seller provided the casting date of the block and photos of the transmission stampings. Knowing the bell housing, starter, flywheel and if the block is a four bolt would also help. These items are often overlooked in making a clone.
If this car really is a low mileage, same owner car for 40 some years, then why did the block need to be restamped! A ZR1 is a race car and not very practical for a daily driver. Why add a factory style alarm and not add a radio. Why paint the battery and storage boxes silver during the restoration?
Be care for something that's just what you want it to be!
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,274
Likes: 6
From: Corvetteville USA
I saw the car in person when it was at Carlisle last year.
It doesn't have features and equipment that it SHOULD have...
It has features and equipment that it SHOULDN'T have...
Add to that the Ray Charles stamp pad...
I didn't see the protecto-plate, but it wouldn't surprise me if it followed the pattern above.
Regards,
Stan Falenski
It doesn't have features and equipment that it SHOULD have...
It has features and equipment that it SHOULDN'T have...
Add to that the Ray Charles stamp pad...
I didn't see the protecto-plate, but it wouldn't surprise me if it followed the pattern above.
Regards,
Stan Falenski
This is not a fair comparison. DNA is unique to one person. The parts that make up a ZR1 can be purchase and assembled creating a ZR1 clone. Some clones are very good and some are not.
We know what makes a real ZR1. This car has too much of what doesn't make a real ZR1.
It would be helpful if the seller provided the casting date of the block and photos of the transmission stampings. Knowing the bell housing, starter, flywheel and if the block is a four bolt would also help. These items are often overlooked in making a clone.
If this car really is a low mileage, same owner car for 40 some years, then why did the block need to be restamped! A ZR1 is a race car and not very practical for a daily driver. Why add a factory style alarm and not add a radio. Why paint the battery and storage boxes silver during the restoration?
Be care for something that's just what you want it to be!
We know what makes a real ZR1. This car has too much of what doesn't make a real ZR1.
It would be helpful if the seller provided the casting date of the block and photos of the transmission stampings. Knowing the bell housing, starter, flywheel and if the block is a four bolt would also help. These items are often overlooked in making a clone.
If this car really is a low mileage, same owner car for 40 some years, then why did the block need to be restamped! A ZR1 is a race car and not very practical for a daily driver. Why add a factory style alarm and not add a radio. Why paint the battery and storage boxes silver during the restoration?
Be care for something that's just what you want it to be!
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,355
Likes: 2,633
From: Draper Utah