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Hello all of you corvette enthusiasts, I need your advice/help/experience with an issue I am having with my 1969 vette (C3). I have noticed rust has formed on the windshield's pillar posts left and right. I am concerned and wonder if the weather strips may be the cause of the problem. If so, can someone tell me which strip may need replacement and if that is the reason if perhaps water/humidity has rolled down the pillars posts? Where could I get new weatherstrips that won't damage my wallet. I have looked online and it seems there are many weather strips that are installed in that car. But I don't know where to begin.
I am actually getting my car that I've had for over 40 years ready to be restored starting with a new coat of paint. It is my retirement project.
Congratulations on retirement and your retirement plans to restore your C-3. Best of luck and if I might pass along some advice from an honors graduate from the Corvette School of Hard Knocks...Be patient, take your time, study hard before you start a particular task and take pictures for all of us to see and follow your progress. Also, if anything frustrates you, makes you mad and or causes your brain to vapor lock, simply walk away and come back in a day or two, it will work itself out. Please know you can trust the advice you get from CF, these guys, and gals, know their stuff. Finally, no question is a bad or "dumb" question! Good luck!
Mac
Congratulations on retirement and your retirement plans to restore your C-3. Best of luck and if I might pass along some advice from an honors graduate from the Corvette School of Hard Knocks...Be patient, take your time, study hard before you start a particular task and take pictures for all of us to see and follow your progress. Also, if anything frustrates you, makes you mad and or causes your brain to vapor lock, simply walk away and come back in a day or two, it will work itself out. Please know you can trust the advice you get from CF, these guys, and gals, know their stuff. Finally, no question is a bad or "dumb" question! Good luck!
Mac
Thank you Mac for your encouragement. I will follow you advice. I am glad I found this site knowing many folks know their stuff.
There are a few different things going on with your 69.
First, the good weatherstrip, is the most expensive, but is also the best choice. Corvette Rubber Company makes the best weatherstrip, and I think are the only ones making the correct weatherstrip for your 69 tops. Check around and see where you can find the best price, as most of the Corvette vendors carry Corvette Rubber's weatherstrips.
Secondly, it appears that your T-Top weatherstrip, has pulled loose from your top(s), and stuck to the windshield header and targa bar. 68 and 69 Corvettes used a 2 piece T-Top weatherstrip. One piece was straight, and ran down the outer side of the tops, where the door glass meets the tops. The second piece ran around the other three sides of the top, and sealed the top to the body. The piece that wraps around the top, is no longer on your top, but instead appears to be stuck to the car. To my knowledge, only Corvette Rubber makes the correct two piece 68-69 T-Top weatherstrip. You can use 70-77 one piece T-Top weatherstrip, on your 69 tops, but it requires finding a pair of 70-77 outer weatherstrip retainers, and drilling new attachment holes for the weatherstrip.
Third, the rust in your A-pillars, is very likely not related to your weatherstrip. Rusted windshield frames, both in the pillars and the header area, as well as rust in the cowl below the pillars, is very common in 68-82 Corvettes. The problem is the area between the top outer windshield molding, and the windshield top header molding. When the cars were built, Chevrolet ran a sealant across the top of the windshield header, under where the two moldings meet. With age, the sealant dries up, shrinks, and is no longer able to keep water out. Water gets in the windshield frame, sits on the header and runs down the pillars, where it eventually rusts out the pillars, header and sometimes even the metal in the cowl. The problem is particularly bad on cars that have sat outside for some length of time, either recently or years ago.
The fix is to remove all of the molding, assess the condition of the windshield frame, and determine what needs to be done to repair the rust. If it's just surface rust, all that's needed is to clean up the rust, paint the frame, and reseal the header, before reinstalling the moldings. If the frame has rusted through anywhere, the damaged sections will need to be replaced, before painting and sealing the frame. If the rust is bad enough that it's gotten into the cowl, the top rear edge of the fenders will need to be cut of, to expose and repair the damage inside the cowl.
I'm sure this isn't what you wanted to hear, but as I said, it is a very common problem with 68-82 Corvettes.
Hi GV,
Welcome!
A 69 Corvette in Guatemala, O.K.!!!!!
RETIREMENT , double O.K.!
GB did a nice job describing the windshield post rust situation
Since you say your going to be spending some time on this car I'll ask if you know about 2 publications….the AIM (Assembly Instruction Manual), and the CSM (Chassis Service Manual)?
Both these books are invaluable to someone working on one of these 45 year old cars.
For instance the AIM which was used in the Corvette plant in St.Louis will have diagrams dealing with how the windshield frame weatherstrip and exterior stainless steel trim were installed and thus how you should approach removing them so you can see just what the rust situation is. The CSM was used at the dealer service departments.
Many of the larger Corvette parts vendors like ZIP, Corvette Central and Paragon Corvette Reproductions, carry both books. You should order the 1969 editions of each.
Good Luck!!!
Regards,
Alan
There are a few different things going on with your 69.
First, the good weatherstrip, is the most expensive, but is also the best choice. Corvette Rubber Company makes the best weatherstrip, and I think are the only ones making the correct weatherstrip for your 69 tops. Check around and see where you can find the best price, as most of the Corvette vendors carry Corvette Rubber's weatherstrips.
Secondly, it appears that your T-Top weatherstrip, has pulled loose from your top(s), and stuck to the windshield header and targa bar. 68 and 69 Corvettes used a 2 piece T-Top weatherstrip. One piece was straight, and ran down the outer side of the tops, where the door glass meets the tops. The second piece ran around the other three sides of the top, and sealed the top to the body. The piece that wraps around the top, is no longer on your top, but instead appears to be stuck to the car. To my knowledge, only Corvette Rubber makes the correct two piece 68-69 T-Top weatherstrip. You can use 70-77 one piece T-Top weatherstrip, on your 69 tops, but it requires finding a pair of 70-77 outer weatherstrip retainers, and drilling new attachment holes for the weatherstrip.
Third, the rust in your A-pillars, is very likely not related to your weatherstrip. Rusted windshield frames, both in the pillars and the header area, as well as rust in the cowl below the pillars, is very common in 68-82 Corvettes. The problem is the area between the top outer windshield molding, and the windshield top header molding. When the cars were built, Chevrolet ran a sealant across the top of the windshield header, under where the two moldings meet. With age, the sealant dries up, shrinks, and is no longer able to keep water out. Water gets in the windshield frame, sits on the header and runs down the pillars, where it eventually rusts out the pillars, header and sometimes even the metal in the cowl. The problem is particularly bad on cars that have sat outside for some length of time, either recently or years ago.
The fix is to remove all of the molding, assess the condition of the windshield frame, and determine what needs to be done to repair the rust. If it's just surface rust, all that's needed is to clean up the rust, paint the frame, and reseal the header, before reinstalling the moldings. If the frame has rusted through anywhere, the damaged sections will need to be replaced, before painting and sealing the frame. If the rust is bad enough that it's gotten into the cowl, the top rear edge of the fenders will need to be cut of, to expose and repair the damage inside the cowl.
I'm sure this isn't what you wanted to hear, but as I said, it is a very common problem with 68-82 Corvettes.
Well you are correct it is not what I want to hear but knowing this, it will give me a better judgment on what action to take. I really appreciate you giving me all the details. Let's see how bad the rust might be and hopefully won't be bad. You know, let's expect the best but prepare for the worst. I'll keep you posted.
Hi GV,
Welcome!
A 69 Corvette in Guatemala, O.K.!!!!!
RETIREMENT , double O.K.!
GB did a nice job describing the windshield post rust situation
Since you say your going to be spending some time on this car I'll ask if you know about 2 publications….the AIM (Assembly Instruction Manual), and the CSM (Chassis Service Manual)?
Both these books are invaluable to someone working on one of these 45 year old cars.
For instance the AIM which was used in the Corvette plant in St.Louis will have diagrams dealing with how the windshield frame weatherstrip and exterior stainless steel trim were installed and thus how you should approach removing them so you can see just what the rust situation is. The CSM was used at the dealer service departments.
Many of the larger Corvette parts vendors like ZIP, Corvette Central and Paragon Corvette Reproductions, carry both books. You should order the 1969 editions of each.
Good Luck!!!
Regards,
Alan
Ok, that's is good to know, thank you Alan I will definitely look into looking for those two publications. If they put it together then it can be taken apart. What better thing to have than THE manual. I appreciate you.
Welcome to the C3 world. All of the advice list above from other members is correct. I have been on my 69 restore for along time as a retired person. There are many hidden tings below the surface. It is an exciting experience to fix one of these old cars. Hopefully you won't run into what I had and all your issues will be minor. Keep the pictures coming so we can all help. You are in the right place.
ZIO
Please don't be shocked, and hopefully yours is not this bad but it can all be fixed!
Dear GB, I wanted to ask if you recommend a particular sealant I could get for applying to the top of my windshield?
I appreciate your help.
GV
Originally Posted by gbvette62
Welcome to the Forum!
There are a few different things going on with your 69.
First, the good weatherstrip, is the most expensive, but is also the best choice. Corvette Rubber Company makes the best weatherstrip, and I think are the only ones making the correct weatherstrip for your 69 tops. Check around and see where you can find the best price, as most of the Corvette vendors carry Corvette Rubber's weatherstrips.
Secondly, it appears that your T-Top weatherstrip, has pulled loose from your top(s), and stuck to the windshield header and targa bar. 68 and 69 Corvettes used a 2 piece T-Top weatherstrip. One piece was straight, and ran down the outer side of the tops, where the door glass meets the tops. The second piece ran around the other three sides of the top, and sealed the top to the body. The piece that wraps around the top, is no longer on your top, but instead appears to be stuck to the car. To my knowledge, only Corvette Rubber makes the correct two piece 68-69 T-Top weatherstrip. You can use 70-77 one piece T-Top weatherstrip, on your 69 tops, but it requires finding a pair of 70-77 outer weatherstrip retainers, and drilling new attachment holes for the weatherstrip.
Third, the rust in your A-pillars, is very likely not related to your weatherstrip. Rusted windshield frames, both in the pillars and the header area, as well as rust in the cowl below the pillars, is very common in 68-82 Corvettes. The problem is the area between the top outer windshield molding, and the windshield top header molding. When the cars were built, Chevrolet ran a sealant across the top of the windshield header, under where the two moldings meet. With age, the sealant dries up, shrinks, and is no longer able to keep water out. Water gets in the windshield frame, sits on the header and runs down the pillars, where it eventually rusts out the pillars, header and sometimes even the metal in the cowl. The problem is particularly bad on cars that have sat outside for some length of time, either recently or years ago.
The fix is to remove all of the molding, assess the condition of the windshield frame, and determine what needs to be done to repair the rust. If it's just surface rust, all that's needed is to clean up the rust, paint the frame, and reseal the header, before reinstalling the moldings. If the frame has rusted through anywhere, the damaged sections will need to be replaced, before painting and sealing the frame. If the rust is bad enough that it's gotten into the cowl, the top rear edge of the fenders will need to be cut of, to expose and repair the damage inside the cowl.
I'm sure this isn't what you wanted to hear, but as I said, it is a very common problem with 68-82 Corvettes.
Welcome to the C3 world. All of the advice list above from other members is correct. I have been on my 69 restore for along time as a retired person. There are many hidden tings below the surface. It is an exciting experience to fix one of these old cars. Hopefully you won't run into what I had and all your issues will be minor. Keep the pictures coming so we can all help. You are in the right place.
ZIO
Please don't be shocked, and hopefully yours is not this bad but it can all be fixed!
After seeing your pictures I realize my problem is not that bad. I also realize there's hope and it can indeed be fixed. Congratulations on how you handled your problem with the rust. Do you have finished pictures of your vette? I think we would love to see them. Thanks!
I am glad you do not have the damage that I had. If you want to keep it original GM used a Zinc Chromate paint in green. If not you might want to clean any rust a use UPOL#2 gray primer. Your choice. My car is far from done but you can see how I am doing on my thread.
Good Luck!
ZIO
Dear GB, I wanted to ask if you recommend a particular sealant I could get for applying to the top of my windshield?
I appreciate your help.
GV
GM used something along the lines of Dum Dum, which I don't think is made anymore. It was just a putty like sealant, similar to what glass companies use to install auto windshields.
Maybe someone else on here knows of a better sealant, but I would suggest maybe using one of the modern silicone sealants. The tube based silicone sealants can be spread evenly, will fill in all of the cracks and crevices, and and should last a long time.
As rvzio said, once you have the rust cleaned up, paint the frame with a good, rust inhibiting primer, and then use your sealant.
Last edited by gbvette62; Oct 31, 2015 at 05:39 PM.
Hi GV,
A sealant that's currently available that has some of the properties of the old dum-dum that GB mentioned is 3M brand Strip Sealer. PN08578
It comes in both black and gray.
It may be what you're looking for.
I'm leery of using silicone sealers around the windshield because it appears that if the 'contact' fails, water can seep under the sealer, but not be obvious that it's happening.
Regards,
Alan
Here's an example of that type of material used by Chevrolet along the edge of this stainless roof trim.
I wanted to ask if you recommend a particular sealant I could get for applying to the top of my windshield?
Originally Posted by gbvette62
GM used something along the lines of Dum Dum, which I don't think is made anymore. It was just a putty like sealant, similar to what glass companies use to install auto windshields.
Maybe someone else on here knows of a better sealant, but I would suggest maybe using one of the modern silicone sealants. The tube based silicone sealants can be spread evenly, will fill in all of the cracks and crevices, and and should last a long time.
As rvzio said, once you have the rust cleaned up, paint the frame with a good, rust inhibiting primer, and then use your sealant.
Originally Posted by Alan 71
Hi GV,
A sealant that's currently available that has some of the properties of the old dum-dum that GB mentioned is 3M brand Strip Sealer. PN08578
It comes in both black and gray.
It may be what you're looking for.
I'm leery of using silicone sealers around the windshield because it appears that if the 'contact' fails, water can seep under the sealer, but not be obvious that it's happening.
The header on my 71 was not as bad as rvzio, but we did have to replace the upper corners, and patch some holes in the cowl.
When we took it apart, it appeared that the entire header was full of old, dried sealant.
Since the 3M "dum dum" we found was only in thin little strips, we decided to use "duct seal"... an electrical putty type product used to prevent moisture from entering electrical equipment.
It`s sold at electrical supply outlets, and is only a couple bucks per pound..... about two pounds filled our header completely.... side to side & top to bottom.
Sorry I can not yet rate it`s performance on the car, as we are still building it.... but I am an electrician, and it works GREAT in that application, so I expect it to work wonderfully in the car too.
Dear GB, I wanted to ask if you recommend a particular sealant I could get for applying to the top of my windshield?
I appreciate your help.
GV
For what it is worth. I prefer to use a liquid product that will actually attach itself to the steel.
I use CR Laurence part number CRL 7708.
And....in your photo of where the T-top weatherstrip is pulling away at the front corner....it looks like the T-top weatherstrips may have been changed to the later design (78-82)...because for your Corvette....this section of T-top weatherstrip that is where the top of the door glass will seal....actually has a stainless steel track that holds the weatherstrip in place....and your weatherstrips do not show this....but it also can be the angle of the photo...but I swear that they have been changed.
And again...for what it is worth. If a person is cleaning up the windshield frame. It is WISE to get NOT too crazy with applying products on the windshield frame where the urethane is going to be applied. Every where else is fine. Applying excessive coats of primer and even painting it is a NO-NO. And this is due to you are increasing the possibility of shear. Most glass companies either want it bare steel so they can apply their special primer..or apply one coat of epoxy primer or zinc/chromate primer and leave it at that.
The 68-69 cars didn't use a T-top weatherstrip retainer, that started in 1970 and went through 1977 early production. 68-69 had metal in the outer section similar to the 77L-82 weatherstrip.
I'm not seeing anything to be alarmed about considering the heat and humidity you face. I think if you wanted to know the condition of the windshield frame, pull the pillar and header moldings and possibly the center outer T molding and just take a good look.
Are you getting water entering the car by the kick panels? If so, remove the kick panels and look inside the A pillar to see how much rust is in there.
Rvzio.. I've fixed some nasty windshield frames over the years but I honestly don't think I've had one even close to that bad... awesome job..
The 68-69 cars didn't use a T-top weatherstrip retainer, that started in 1970 and went through 1977 early production. 68-69 had metal in the outer section similar to the 77L-82 weatherstrip.
I'm not seeing anything to be alarmed about considering the heat and humidity you face. I think if you wanted to know the condition of the windshield frame, pull the pillar and header moldings and possibly the center outer T molding and just take a good look.
Are you getting water entering the car by the kick panels? If so, remove the kick panels and look inside the A pillar to see how much rust is in there.
Rvzio.. I've fixed some nasty windshield frames over the years but I honestly don't think I've had one even close to that bad... awesome job..
It seems like I might be leading the way in the bad windshield department, which is not a good thing. Thank you for the positive comments on my fixing the problem. Means a lot coming from Wilcox. Was not fun but rewarding.
ZIO
... If a person is cleaning up the windshield frame. It is WISE to get too crazy with applying products on the windshield frame where the urethane is going to be applied. Every where else is fine. Applying excessive coats of primer and even painting it is a NO-NO. And this is due to you are increasing the possibility of shear. Most glass companies either want it bare steel so they can apply their special primer..or apply one coat of epoxy primer or zinc/chromate primer and leave it at that.
DUB
Dub,
Did you mean to type "It is WISE to not get too crazy with applying products...???
That makes more sense to me considering the rest of your post and is a great warning to us do-it-yourselfers. I'd hate to have remove products I'd added in order for the window to seal properly.
We use zinc chromate (from air craft spruce) on the frames and then 3m 08681 Windshield primer around the frames everywhere the urethane will touch and I think what Dub is saying is to keep that area clean and free of any weatherstrip adhesives.
Did you mean to type "It is WISE to not get too crazy with applying products...???
That makes more sense to me considering the rest of your post and is a great warning to us do-it-yourselfers. I'd hate to have remove products I'd added in order for the window to seal properly.
Paul
Paul,
THANKS....I corrected it.
Oddly..I have had several 1969's that had the stainless steel track above the door glass to hold the weatherstrip. A new one to me. I stand CORRECTED.
What Willcox is applying to the frames is perfectly fine...not like they need my approval on that. The zinc/chromate is a thin product that sticks like heck....then the 3M product adheres to it. SO...the 3M product ONLY has ONE product that it can shear off of. Because the 3M primer and their urethane will bond together and not shear.
Because....the area on the windshield frame where the urethane is going to be applied is what is most important if a person is concerned about 'shear'....SO...if a person plans on priming, painting and clearcoating this area where the windshield primer and urethane goes....is NOT up to industry standards....just 'saying'.
Weatherstrip rust problems
