Whose yer Daddy :D
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 388
Likes: 1
From: Bridgeport CT
Whose yer Daddy :D
When I wrote how some maximize their auction potential in a Corvette with and without NCRS, I had no idea it would be demonstrated so clearly and so soon. http://www.ncrs.org/forum/tech.cgi/read/162644
After just a few days, my old friend Loren Lundberg would alert us to these 2 different descriptions of 1967 VIN 802 on the National Camel Rider Society tech board. Some old herders, keep a data base of these things. (I also must thank Loren for confirming my 68 was an L89 when he saw her in AZ decades before she was a fashionable old girl in a Yellow dress.)
Whoose yaa Daddy? VIN 802 from Nov-Dec 2003
http://216.149.148.95/dr-r-pics/67vin802.jpg
Whoose yaa Daddy? VIN 802 from Nov 2004-Jan 2005
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/aucti....asp?id=179140
Geoffrey Coenen
PS Caveat Emptor
After just a few days, my old friend Loren Lundberg would alert us to these 2 different descriptions of 1967 VIN 802 on the National Camel Rider Society tech board. Some old herders, keep a data base of these things. (I also must thank Loren for confirming my 68 was an L89 when he saw her in AZ decades before she was a fashionable old girl in a Yellow dress.)
Whoose yaa Daddy? VIN 802 from Nov-Dec 2003
http://216.149.148.95/dr-r-pics/67vin802.jpg
Whoose yaa Daddy? VIN 802 from Nov 2004-Jan 2005
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/aucti....asp?id=179140
Geoffrey Coenen
PS Caveat Emptor
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
Did it actually auction off at BJ? If it did.. that buyer just got hosed! 
Edit:
Wow... I wonder what the new owner will do when he finds out!!!
SOLD FOR $163,080
Edit:
Wow... I wonder what the new owner will do when he finds out!!!
SOLD FOR $163,080
Last edited by majic1984; Feb 7, 2005 at 06:32 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
BJ never claimed it's a numbers only..ad says restored to NCRS specs...you can interpret it two ways, a cloned 427/435 or nuumbers matching...this is a case where the fool never heard about documentation....
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 388
Likes: 1
From: Bridgeport CT
I can't alert the buyer
I don't know who he is.
But things are looking up.
Hockey season is almost over.
See y'all in Knoxville April 1
Geoffrey Coenen
PS George you never came to August Carlisle. You must be working too much.
But things are looking up.
Hockey season is almost over.
See y'all in Knoxville April 1
Geoffrey Coenen
PS George you never came to August Carlisle. You must be working too much.
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Instructor
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by GDaina
BJ never claimed it's a numbers only..ad says restored to NCRS specs...you can interpret it two ways, a cloned 427/435 or nuumbers matching...this is a case where the fool never heard about documentation....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,339
Likes: 24
From: I can walk to MA
Documentation includes tank sticker !?!!?
Did the buyer read it, or maybe it was forged.
I'd be pissed if the buyer.
So Geoffrey, how much did it cost you to convert it to a 427-435 ?
Just Kidding ...
I'd guess the seller put another $25000 to make it what it is now.
Nice profit.
Did the buyer read it, or maybe it was forged.
I'd be pissed if the buyer.
So Geoffrey, how much did it cost you to convert it to a 427-435 ?
Just Kidding ...
I'd guess the seller put another $25000 to make it what it is now.
Nice profit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,339
Likes: 24
From: I can walk to MA
Originally Posted by rick1500
Hmmm...the BJ description says "This stunning 1967 427/435 Black Coupe with Red leather interior is numbers matching". However, it also says that it has tank sticker, and photos of the restore, which seem like they couldn't easily hide it being yellow w/ white interior like the newspaper ad says it was. Did someone just mistype the last few digits of the VIN?
This is acceptable to NCRS rules.
Now, I'm not sure how they look at replacing the body tag, but you
can buy new body tags easy enough.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco, CA
Doesn't the auction house have some responsibility in this? It seems like they would at least be expected to do some due diligence- eg check the numbers on the block - but I guess the answer is no. I hope he at least drives the car! 
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,893
Likes: 0
From: Warren MI
B-J does not verify cars. They sell 1000s of cars a year. That was pointed out many times during the TV auction. They depend on the sellers description and the buyers to do their homework. I've been to B-J...nobody could check out all those cars. B-J sells cars and that's all they do.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Originally Posted by NHvette
"Numbers Matching" is allowed to use a correct date-coded block and re-stamp the VIN.
This is acceptable to NCRS rules.
Now, I'm not sure how they look at replacing the body tag, but you
can buy new body tags easy enough.
This is acceptable to NCRS rules.
Now, I'm not sure how they look at replacing the body tag, but you
can buy new body tags easy enough.
Yes, you can restamp engines and buy bogus trim tags. Just don't get piXXed when you get caught on the judging field and get hit with a huge deduct. And don't punch the trim tag guy in the nose like happened at Bloomington.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 27
From: Northeast South Dakota
I also have to wonder if the add for the yellow car has the VIN typed wrong or something. It would seem to me that it would be pretty hard to cover up a history like that. If it is the same car, which is just as possible, somebody had to do a serious resto job on that car to get it to what they call original now. It still appears that it is not what I call numbers matching. To me numbers matching means the motor and trans that came from the factory.
-Justin
-Justin
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,833
Likes: 15
From: Southeast La
Notice documentation does not include a long history of winning awards. This car has never seen an NCRS judging event. Notice the seller does not misrepresent the car...only that it is a numbers matching, and that it has the original owners manual, etc...hell my 75 camaro has the original owners manual.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
Likes: 383
From: Plano TX
Why are you defending these people? I have no problem taking a base car and popping a 427/435 in it but they also forged the engine stampings as well as forged a tank sticker, body tag and who knows what else. Also note that the original add says the car has extensive body damage and the BJ auction doesn't mention it.
Definition of fraud is to knowingly represent something that it is not for monetary gain. This car fits that to a t. It's a fraud.
Definition of fraud is to knowingly represent something that it is not for monetary gain. This car fits that to a t. It's a fraud.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
Originally Posted by zwede
Why are you defending these people? I have no problem taking a base car and popping a 427/435 in it but they also forged the engine stampings as well as forged a tank sticker, body tag and who knows what else. Also note that the original add says the car has extensive body damage and the BJ auction doesn't mention it.
Definition of fraud is to knowingly represent something that it is not for monetary gain. This car fits that to a t. It's a fraud.
Definition of fraud is to knowingly represent something that it is not for monetary gain. This car fits that to a t. It's a fraud.