Collapsed Hydraulic Lifter
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 301
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton Fl
Collapsed Hydraulic Lifter
427/390
I now have a collapsed lifter.
Afraid to run the thing now...
What caused it?
I guess I adjusted past the lash point if I read other threads correctly.
I am still trying to understand these items
1. Can I back off the adjustment and have the lifter pump back up or is it too late?
2. If I have to replace... is the best/only way through the intake manifold?
3. If replacing one...should I do all of them?
3b. Damn, it was running so great and today was a perfect day!
Thanks
I now have a collapsed lifter.
Afraid to run the thing now...
What caused it?
I guess I adjusted past the lash point if I read other threads correctly.
I am still trying to understand these items
1. Can I back off the adjustment and have the lifter pump back up or is it too late?
2. If I have to replace... is the best/only way through the intake manifold?
3. If replacing one...should I do all of them?
3b. Damn, it was running so great and today was a perfect day!
Thanks
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 301
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton Fl
Originally Posted by 71coupe
They usually break when the adjustment is too loose. If it's too tight, the valve will stay open & you wouldn't be able to build any compression.
How did you determine that a lifter is bad?
How did you determine that a lifter is bad?
Turned it off. Found the one rocker could be pushed down on the push rod side about a 1/4 inch. Tightened it down (adjusted way more that the rest) and drove it home.
Now I realize what I had done. If that thing had pumped up again teh pistone would have smacked an open valve no?
If I back off with this lifter pump back up?
Maybe it lost some oil pressure or something?
Not sure...kind of a rookie on valve train
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 14
From: Tolar Texas
Years ago, after rebuilding a Buick V6 I had one lifter that wouldn't pump up. Upon the recommendation of a mechanic friend I tried the following:
With the engine running, valve cover off, I pressed as hard as I could on the push rod end of the rocker arm with the wood end of a ball peen hammer. The lifter did finally manage to pump up.
I suppose it might have had a minor defect (nick/burr) that prevented the plunger from moving freely.
It's a LONG SHOT but for the price of this advice it's worth trying.
With the engine running, valve cover off, I pressed as hard as I could on the push rod end of the rocker arm with the wood end of a ball peen hammer. The lifter did finally manage to pump up.
I suppose it might have had a minor defect (nick/burr) that prevented the plunger from moving freely.
It's a LONG SHOT but for the price of this advice it's worth trying.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,672
Likes: 199
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
I would go back and adjust all the valves again, if you are not sure how to do this properly pay a mechanic 50 bucks to come over and show you it is important this is done correctly or you could end up with an expensive boat anchor.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 14
From: CA
Originally Posted by superdad60
Was driving and all of a sudden major noise in passenger valve cover
Turned it off. Found the one rocker could be pushed down on the push rod side about a 1/4 inch. Tightened it down (adjusted way more that the rest) and drove it home.
Now I realize what I had done. If that thing had pumped up again teh pistone would have smacked an open valve no?
If I back off with this lifter pump back up?
Maybe it lost some oil pressure or something?
Not sure...kind of a rookie on valve train
Turned it off. Found the one rocker could be pushed down on the push rod side about a 1/4 inch. Tightened it down (adjusted way more that the rest) and drove it home.
Now I realize what I had done. If that thing had pumped up again teh pistone would have smacked an open valve no?
If I back off with this lifter pump back up?
Maybe it lost some oil pressure or something?
Not sure...kind of a rookie on valve train
Good luck
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 301
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton Fl
Originally Posted by 71coupe
I'm not sure about a BB, but sometimes in a SB the pressed-in studs can work their way loose & pull out. If you decide to readjust the valve train, keep in mind old hyd lifters can react slow to adjustments (Which means the valves may stay slightly open just after adjusting until the pressure bleeds off) Also, it's probably a good idea to inspect the rocker & ***** for galling or heat discoloration, & install new lock nuts.
Good luck
Good luck
I also have the allen jam nuts and they all were torqued still
The one lifter just felt loosely spongy and spring loaded where the others were nice and snug. That was the one making the racket!
I am in the process of getting a junk valve cover to cut a hole into for adjusting.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 6,134
Likes: 46
From: Raleigh North Carolina
It's usually dirt or metal deposits along with "varnish" that causes them to take a nap. If you disassemble one, you will see what I mean. The crud settles out inside the lifters as the oil passes through.
A high pressure oil pump can do the same thing when the lifters are not designed to operate well with high oil pressure. BB Fords are prone to this.
You can disassemblle that one lifter & clean it out.... might be the ticket. When I have an engine down, I do all of them. I use lacquer thinner to cut the varnish and a fine wire wheel to clean each part independently.
There's always a chance though that the lifter is dead.
A high pressure oil pump can do the same thing when the lifters are not designed to operate well with high oil pressure. BB Fords are prone to this.
You can disassemblle that one lifter & clean it out.... might be the ticket. When I have an engine down, I do all of them. I use lacquer thinner to cut the varnish and a fine wire wheel to clean each part independently.
There's always a chance though that the lifter is dead.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 301
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton Fl
Originally Posted by Tom454
It's usually dirt or metal deposits along with "varnish" that causes them to take a nap. If you disassemble one, you will see what I mean. The crud settles out inside the lifters as the oil passes through.
A high pressure oil pump can do the same thing when the lifters are not designed to operate well with high oil pressure. BB Fords are prone to this.
You can disassemblle that one lifter & clean it out.... might be the ticket. When I have an engine down, I do all of them. I use lacquer thinner to cut the varnish and a fine wire wheel to clean each part independently.
There's always a chance though that the lifter is dead.
A high pressure oil pump can do the same thing when the lifters are not designed to operate well with high oil pressure. BB Fords are prone to this.
You can disassemblle that one lifter & clean it out.... might be the ticket. When I have an engine down, I do all of them. I use lacquer thinner to cut the varnish and a fine wire wheel to clean each part independently.
There's always a chance though that the lifter is dead.
Thanks for the lamens terms. I understand the scenario better now.
This whole deal happened 20 miles after an oil change... I will try a few option prior to removal of lifter.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,347
Likes: 4
From: Slidell La
Studs pull out
Originally Posted by 71coupe
I'm not sure about a BB, but sometimes in a SB the pressed-in studs can work their way loose & pull out. If you decide to readjust the valve train, keep in mind old hyd lifters can react slow to adjustments (Which means the valves may stay slightly open just after adjusting until the pressure bleeds off) Also, it's probably a good idea to inspect the rocker & ***** for galling or heat discoloration, & install new lock nuts.
Good luck
Good luck
If you don't have screw in studs they can pull up and look like the lifter is not working. I had this on a 389 pontiac several years ago. If this is the case you can still adjust the valve by having the piston at tdc, the tighten the rocker nut until it touches the push rod, then add 1/2 turn, (this is less than normal 1 turn). IF it runs ok, then repeats the problem you probably are pulling a stud. If you have a caliper you can measure the stud height and compair to others. There are screw studs available in most cases. Good luck.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,369
Likes: 6,361
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Originally Posted by superdad60
What caused it?
1. Can I back off the adjustment and have the lifter pump back up or is it too late?
2. If I have to replace... is the best/only way through the intake manifold?
3. If replacing one...should I do all of them?
You have to pull the intake to get the lifter out. I pulled the intake and removed the offending lifter. The plunger was jammed in the bottom of the lifter body bore and would no come up. I pulled the snapring out and smacked the lifter up-side-down on a wooden board several times. This got the plunger to come up and I was able to get it out of the bore. Turns out, a tiny piece of crap had gotten into the lifter, and cause the plunger to stick in the bottom of the bore. I simply cleaned it up really well, blew off oaa the parts, oiled it, and stuck it back together. Pumped the plunger up and down a few times to verify that it was working. Slapped the thing back in the engine and it has run great ever since.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 301
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton Fl
Originally Posted by lars
I've had the same thing happen on a new engine - ran great for a while, and suddenly a lifter "collapsed." I tried to back the adjustment off to get the lifter plunger to pump up. I tried running the adjustment down. Tried everything to no avail - the plunger would not pump up.
You have to pull the intake to get the lifter out. I pulled the intake and removed the offending lifter. The plunger was jammed in the bottom of the lifter body bore and would no come up. I pulled the snapring out and smacked the lifter up-side-down on a wooden board several times. This got the plunger to come up and I was able to get it out of the bore. Turns out, a tiny piece of crap had gotten into the lifter, and cause the plunger to stick in the bottom of the bore. I simply cleaned it up really well, blew off oaa the parts, oiled it, and stuck it back together. Pumped the plunger up and down a few times to verify that it was working. Slapped the thing back in the engine and it has run great ever since.
You have to pull the intake to get the lifter out. I pulled the intake and removed the offending lifter. The plunger was jammed in the bottom of the lifter body bore and would no come up. I pulled the snapring out and smacked the lifter up-side-down on a wooden board several times. This got the plunger to come up and I was able to get it out of the bore. Turns out, a tiny piece of crap had gotten into the lifter, and cause the plunger to stick in the bottom of the bore. I simply cleaned it up really well, blew off oaa the parts, oiled it, and stuck it back together. Pumped the plunger up and down a few times to verify that it was working. Slapped the thing back in the engine and it has run great ever since.
Man I have been reading your name for a while now.
I am honored you responded to the thread. Thanks Lars
The part that gets my panties in the wad is the distributer. I'll need to read up about the out/in position rotation, etc. Somehow I get freaked about putting in a tooth off or something after doing the lash adjusting. One of the other posts speaks of getting a mechanic to stop by and this would most likely happen just before the distributor gets dropped back in. Stay Tuned
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 14,369
Likes: 6,361
From: At my Bar drinking and wrenching in Lafayette Colorado
Drop me an e-mail and I'll send you my distributor installation article. The distributor install is very easy and quick - no need to sweat it.
The '69 Camaro that I had the bad lifter in took me under an hour to pull the lifter out, fix it, install it, and have the car running again. No big deal - just do it.. It takes about 2 beers.
Lars
V8FastCars@msn.com
The '69 Camaro that I had the bad lifter in took me under an hour to pull the lifter out, fix it, install it, and have the car running again. No big deal - just do it.. It takes about 2 beers.
Lars
V8FastCars@msn.com
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 301
Likes: 2
From: Boca Raton Fl
I travel a lot so my shop time is intermittent.
Here is the story. Removed the lifters today
and 3 are concave.
1 has a hole wore in it and that is why won't pump.
Now I have to order a cam as the lobes are rounded too
Have to wait a few more weeks to do the cam
Stay Tuned
Here is the story. Removed the lifters today
and 3 are concave.
1 has a hole wore in it and that is why won't pump.
Now I have to order a cam as the lobes are rounded too
Have to wait a few more weeks to do the cam
Stay Tuned
