509 or 540 BBC ?
Race Director
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From: Corsicana, Tx
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
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2017 C2 of Year Finalist
Hey L88Plus Dude...you gotta tell us when you get a new name on here!! Now I know who I'm talking to!!
BTW- we have another fellow looking for a Dart/Merlin block...got any leads/deals?
Those ProToplines are nice. Their CNC stuff was probably the prettiest I've seen yet out of the box.
Have you looked at the new Edelbrock or Dart stuff? There are some neat "rollover" heads that take regular valvetrain. Those BMF ported Canfields are doing very nicely too.
John.....I keep thinking of 'ole Harold Suttons Chevelle. They seem to have picked up dramatically with the "magic" 4.5" stroke over the old 540. I don't think they are using a huge tire either are they? I met Harold once when I was working in OK. one week..nice guy.
For sure a 565 is a sweet combo. I wonder what my 'ole funky 540 would do with a 300 shot???
JIM
BTW- we have another fellow looking for a Dart/Merlin block...got any leads/deals?
Those ProToplines are nice. Their CNC stuff was probably the prettiest I've seen yet out of the box.
Have you looked at the new Edelbrock or Dart stuff? There are some neat "rollover" heads that take regular valvetrain. Those BMF ported Canfields are doing very nicely too.
John.....I keep thinking of 'ole Harold Suttons Chevelle. They seem to have picked up dramatically with the "magic" 4.5" stroke over the old 540. I don't think they are using a huge tire either are they? I met Harold once when I was working in OK. one week..nice guy.
For sure a 565 is a sweet combo. I wonder what my 'ole funky 540 would do with a 300 shot???
JIM
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,892
Likes: 13
From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Originally Posted by 427Hotrod
Hey L88Plus Dude...you gotta tell us when you get a new name on here!! Now I know who I'm talking to!!
BTW- we have another fellow looking for a Dart/Merlin block...got any leads/deals?
Those ProToplines are nice. Their CNC stuff was probably the prettiest I've seen yet out of the box.
Have you looked at the new Edelbrock or Dart stuff? There are some neat "rollover" heads that take regular valvetrain. Those BMF ported Canfields are doing very nicely too.
John.....I keep thinking of 'ole Harold Suttons Chevelle. They seem to have picked up dramatically with the "magic" 4.5" stroke over the old 540. I don't think they are using a huge tire either are they? I met Harold once when I was working in OK. one week..nice guy.
For sure a 565 is a sweet combo. I wonder what my 'ole funky 540 would do with a 300 shot???
JIM
BTW- we have another fellow looking for a Dart/Merlin block...got any leads/deals?
Those ProToplines are nice. Their CNC stuff was probably the prettiest I've seen yet out of the box.
Have you looked at the new Edelbrock or Dart stuff? There are some neat "rollover" heads that take regular valvetrain. Those BMF ported Canfields are doing very nicely too.
John.....I keep thinking of 'ole Harold Suttons Chevelle. They seem to have picked up dramatically with the "magic" 4.5" stroke over the old 540. I don't think they are using a huge tire either are they? I met Harold once when I was working in OK. one week..nice guy.
For sure a 565 is a sweet combo. I wonder what my 'ole funky 540 would do with a 300 shot???
JIM
I know who you are talking about, but do not know enough about his car to have much of an opinion, I think he is NA also??
How about we stack two plates on your 540, or may a Fogger and a plate. One unit for 2nd gear and then add the other for 3rd !! That would be realy cool. Make sure you are careful flowing that plate this time LOL !!!
BTW, when I really get a handle on this car of mine I am going to make it a clutch car. I really do not want to bracket race, only have as much fun as possible. A 4 or 5 speed Lenco, G-Force or may a Lenco drive would be a lot of fun !! Hmmm 2200 lbs, 555 on nitrous, 33x16's...... I hope I can bug you for some advise when I set it up.
That killer Glide of mine would be sweet in your ride with a big hit of nitrous!
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
[QUOTE=red79vette454]
The nodular caps are rated to 1000 horse. After that they recommend the splayed caps.
Originally Posted by 69 N.O.X. RATT
I am sure the nodular caps would work fine, but I like to over build the bottom end. My new block has splayed caps.
How much total power do you want to make ??
[/QUOTE
I'd like to see 850 to 900 HP on motor. Think this is possible?
How much total power do you want to make ??
[/QUOTE
I'd like to see 850 to 900 HP on motor. Think this is possible?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
As far as blocks go the CNC Bowtie is a very nice piece. I have talked to more than one engine builder that likes them better than the Darts. I have heard the castings are nicer. I honestly do not know which one is better, if either. I do know GM was selling the bare block for $2800.00+ when I bought mine, they have since reduced the price a bunch.
Here are a few pics of my 4.560 bore GM CNC Bowtie. This is not the standard Bowtie block.
Here are a few pics of my 4.560 bore GM CNC Bowtie. This is not the standard Bowtie block.
Last edited by 69 N.O.X. RATT; Aug 14, 2006 at 09:55 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
69N.O.X.RAT, I have a CNC block like yours and I agree, they're as nice as it gets. Steel splayed caps and I think that the castings are cleaner than Dart or Merlin. I was told by my engine builder that they are cast by John Deere but haven't verified it. They have 'em priced very close to the Sportsman Bowtie now and that would be a no-brainer for me. I haven't decided whether to build mine or have it chromed or powder coated and use it as a piece of art!
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,892
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Originally Posted by L88Plus
69N.O.X.RAT, I have a CNC block like yours and I agree, they're as nice as it gets. Steel splayed caps and I think that the castings are cleaner than Dart or Merlin. I was told by my engine builder that they are cast by John Deere but haven't verified it. They have 'em priced very close to the Sportsman Bowtie now and that would be a no-brainer for me. I haven't decided whether to build mine or have it chromed or powder coated and use it as a piece of art!
If I were in the market for a new iron block they would be very high on my list. I would also look at the new Dart casting they have that are specifically for very high hp engines. I do not know much about it, they advertise it in National Dragster......supposedly harder and stronger.
My GM block weighs 282 pounds as a short deck !!! If I had to do it all over again I would probably go aluminum. I like the idea of being able to repair it if a rod saws it in half at 7500 rpms
Not to mention 150 pounds off the nose of the car....decisions, decisions......
Last edited by 69 N.O.X. RATT; Aug 14, 2006 at 10:13 AM.
Safety Car
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Originally Posted by 69 N.O.X. RATT
Ya, they actually call them the G.M. C.N.C. Pro Stock block. They are a very nice block. I bought mine off the internet for 2,000.00 (new) I called my local GM connection and he told me at that time his price on them was 2800.00 and he would have to charge me 3,000.00 for it
If I were in the market for a new iron block they would be very high on my list. I would also look at the new Dart casting they have that is specifically for very high hp engines. I do not know much about it, they advertise it in National Dragster......supposedly harder and stronger.
My GM block weighs 282 pounds as a short deck !!! If I had to do it all over again I would probably go aluminum. I like the idea of being able to repair it if a rod saws it in half at 7500 rpms Not to mention 150 pounds off the nose of the car....decisions, decisions......
If I were in the market for a new iron block they would be very high on my list. I would also look at the new Dart casting they have that is specifically for very high hp engines. I do not know much about it, they advertise it in National Dragster......supposedly harder and stronger.
My GM block weighs 282 pounds as a short deck !!! If I had to do it all over again I would probably go aluminum. I like the idea of being able to repair it if a rod saws it in half at 7500 rpms
Not to mention 150 pounds off the nose of the car....decisions, decisions......
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
I actually got to see the first 6 Brodix blocks assembled and dyno tested. They had a small problem with cap alignment at high rpm's but got that taken care of right away. Sunset Racecraft here in Lubbock, TX is probably one of the bigger customers of Brodix so I've seen quite a few of 'em. Nice pieces and they haven't had any block related problems other than that first one I mentioned since that time.
They have a Donovan now that's gonna make a 704. Deck on it is 11.6xx, what a friggin' monster and nice looking machine work. It's not enough that it's aluminum but they remove all non-critical material to make it even lighter. With the Brodix at around 6K, my guess is that this one is probably in the neighborhood of $10K+. I don't think I'll even have that in my entire engine!
They have a Donovan now that's gonna make a 704. Deck on it is 11.6xx, what a friggin' monster and nice looking machine work. It's not enough that it's aluminum but they remove all non-critical material to make it even lighter. With the Brodix at around 6K, my guess is that this one is probably in the neighborhood of $10K+. I don't think I'll even have that in my entire engine!
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Le Mans Master
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From: Watkinsville, GA and Glen Cove, NY
Guys, while the subject is on aluminum big blocks. Have you seen any evidence that all aluminum engines are down on power from iron block combos. Evry now and then I read something where there is much as 50 hp losses on 700 and up horse motors. Is this due to movement or thermal issues if it is true.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Corsicana, Tx
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
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Hey John...neat pics. A couple of interesting things...
First I see Merlins must have copied GM's idea of using 8 additional head studs instead of 4. We were having a discussion about how much good those ones right by the regular head bolt could do? It's interesting that GM engineers added them...and Dart didn't. Hmmmnnnn....
The other neat feature is it appears they have grooved the main bearing bores similar to the LS-1 type motors. We've been doing that for a long time on ours and adding a few extra holes in the upper main bearing halves to give a little extra. Not sure if it's absolutely needed, but interesting to see GM went to trouble to do it. Are you going to run slotted/drilled mains to take advantage of it?
JIM
First I see Merlins must have copied GM's idea of using 8 additional head studs instead of 4. We were having a discussion about how much good those ones right by the regular head bolt could do? It's interesting that GM engineers added them...and Dart didn't. Hmmmnnnn....
The other neat feature is it appears they have grooved the main bearing bores similar to the LS-1 type motors. We've been doing that for a long time on ours and adding a few extra holes in the upper main bearing halves to give a little extra. Not sure if it's absolutely needed, but interesting to see GM went to trouble to do it. Are you going to run slotted/drilled mains to take advantage of it?
JIM
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Originally Posted by 427Hotrod
Hey John...neat pics. A couple of interesting things...
First I see Merlins must have copied GM's idea of using 8 additional head studs instead of 4. We were having a discussion about how much good those ones right by the regular head bolt could do? It's interesting that GM engineers added them...and Dart didn't. Hmmmnnnn....
The other neat feature is it appears they have grooved the main bearing bores similar to the LS-1 type motors. We've been doing that for a long time on ours and adding a few extra holes in the upper main bearing halves to give a little extra. Not sure if it's absolutely needed, but interesting to see GM went to trouble to do it. Are you going to run slotted/drilled mains to take advantage of it?
JIM
First I see Merlins must have copied GM's idea of using 8 additional head studs instead of 4. We were having a discussion about how much good those ones right by the regular head bolt could do? It's interesting that GM engineers added them...and Dart didn't. Hmmmnnnn....
The other neat feature is it appears they have grooved the main bearing bores similar to the LS-1 type motors. We've been doing that for a long time on ours and adding a few extra holes in the upper main bearing halves to give a little extra. Not sure if it's absolutely needed, but interesting to see GM went to trouble to do it. Are you going to run slotted/drilled mains to take advantage of it?
JIM
I can not think of any reason not to run slotted and drilled bearings for it. As nice as Darts stuff is I gotta think the General has a lot more money to R and D with. G.M.'s knowledge base is also far wider than Darts; maybe some of the stuff we see in those blocks came from another form of racing?
69ttop502, I have personally never seen a side by side comparison off the dyno; but I have always heard and assumed that iron blocks make a little more power.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
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From: Lubbock TX
Jim, a Dart tech told me that they don't put 8 stud bosses because 4 is all that's needed. Since there's a head bolt right beside the extra head bolt boss on 4 cylinders, they're not needed and since they're actually farther from the cylinder, clamping force isn't quite as good.
As for aluminum making less power, my guy tells me that it's so small that it could be considered insignificant. As for rigidity, the new stuff is designed with extra bracing, etc. and they're comparable to iron in that respect. An iron block will hold more heat and contribute to a bit more power, about 1% in his estimation. That's not nearly enough to offset the significant weight savings.
Scoggin-Dickey's catalog lists their short deck Bowtie Sportsman block at 4.494 bore for $1795 and the Pro Stock CNC block is $1895. $100 for billet caps and the full CNC treatment - what a bargain!!!
Edit: 1795 is Sportsman tall deck, 1695 is price on the short deck Sportsman block. Still, all the benefits of the CNC block for $200 is a whale of a bargain!
As for aluminum making less power, my guy tells me that it's so small that it could be considered insignificant. As for rigidity, the new stuff is designed with extra bracing, etc. and they're comparable to iron in that respect. An iron block will hold more heat and contribute to a bit more power, about 1% in his estimation. That's not nearly enough to offset the significant weight savings.
Scoggin-Dickey's catalog lists their short deck Bowtie Sportsman block at 4.494 bore for $1795 and the Pro Stock CNC block is $1895. $100 for billet caps and the full CNC treatment - what a bargain!!!
Edit: 1795 is Sportsman tall deck, 1695 is price on the short deck Sportsman block. Still, all the benefits of the CNC block for $200 is a whale of a bargain!
Last edited by L88Plus; Aug 15, 2006 at 12:38 PM.
Safety Car
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Originally Posted by L88Plus
Jim, a Dart tech told me that they don't put 8 stud bosses because 4 is all that's needed. Since there's a head bolt right beside the extra head bolt boss on 4 cylinders, they're not needed and since they're actually farther from the cylinder, clamping force isn't quite as good.
As for aluminum making less power, my guy tells me that it's so small that it could be considered insignificant. As for rigidity, the new stuff is designed with extra bracing, etc. and they're comparable to iron in that respect. An iron block will hold more heat and contribute to a bit more power, about 1% in his estimation. That's not nearly enough to offset the significant weight savings.
Scoggin-Dickey's catalog lists their short deck Bowtie Sportsman block at 4.494 bore for $1795 and the Pro Stock CNC block is $1895. $100 for billet caps and the full CNC treatment - what a bargain!!!
As for aluminum making less power, my guy tells me that it's so small that it could be considered insignificant. As for rigidity, the new stuff is designed with extra bracing, etc. and they're comparable to iron in that respect. An iron block will hold more heat and contribute to a bit more power, about 1% in his estimation. That's not nearly enough to offset the significant weight savings.
Scoggin-Dickey's catalog lists their short deck Bowtie Sportsman block at 4.494 bore for $1795 and the Pro Stock CNC block is $1895. $100 for billet caps and the full CNC treatment - what a bargain!!!
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: Corsicana, Tx
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
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2017 C2 of Year Finalist
That is a heck of a deal on that block!!
For that price...your buddy is going to have to get "real right" on that Dart he has!!
JIM
For that price...your buddy is going to have to get "real right" on that Dart he has!!
JIM
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Geneva Ohio
Originally Posted by L88Plus
Scoggin-Dickey's catalog lists their short deck Bowtie Sportsman block at 4.494 bore for $1795 and the Pro Stock CNC block is $1895. $100 for billet caps and the full CNC treatment - what a bargain!!!
Edit: 1795 is Sportsman tall deck, 1695 is price on the short deck Sportsman block. Still, all the benefits of the CNC block for $200 is a whale of a bargain!
Edit: 1795 is Sportsman tall deck, 1695 is price on the short deck Sportsman block. Still, all the benefits of the CNC block for $200 is a whale of a bargain!
Thanks
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
That P/N is 24502500. I called my guy at SDPC and they're having a little trouble getting 'em, but expect to have some soon.
Jim, I think you're right. I'll pass that CNC block price along to him and see if it rattles his cage a bit.
Jim, I think you're right. I'll pass that CNC block price along to him and see if it rattles his cage a bit.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 13,017
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From: Corsicana, Tx
2020 C2 of the Year - Modified Winner
2020 Corvette of the Year (performance mods)
C2 of Year Winner (performance mods) 2019
2017 C2 of Year Finalist
Dat be what I'm working on here for ya dudette!!
More to come...ready for a road trip to Lubbock?
JIM
More to come...ready for a road trip to Lubbock?
JIM
