Need Help With CS144 Alternator Install
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by TPI BOY
I just bought one i've got my fingers crossed it will
work the first time
work the first time
You'll let us know if it works, and what wires you connected to what? Also, what year Vette do you have and what alt are replacing with the CS?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
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From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by shafrs3
Yes that's it!
Take the old SI plug - the big red wire goes to the big red wire on the CS plug. The brown or white wire goes to the brown wire on the CS plug. The red and black wires with ring terminals go to the terminal bolts on the back of the CS alternator, just like they did on the SI. The connections are the same, the plug just changed.
Originally Posted by http://www.novaresource.org/alternator.htm
Most of the connectors for the CS alternators are four wire but will only use two of them and the wiring is the same as the SI.
* S = a heavy gauge wire to the battery supply (horn relay)
* F = not used
* L = a small gauge wire that comes from the idiot light and energizes the alternator
* P = not used
You need to purchase a conversion adapter that is just 2 short wires and 2 connectors. One is a CS connector to plug into the alternator, the other is a female connector to accept the SI plug from your original harness. There are two different types of conversion adapters. One is a non-resistor and the other has some resistance built-in it. The "L" wire that energizes the alternator needs some resistance (35 ohms or more) in it otherwise it will cause the alternator to fail. If you have a warning light in the dash then that bulb serves as the needed resistance and you should use the non-resistor adapter. If you don't have that bulb or have less than 35 ohms resistance in the "L" wire then you will need the adapter with resistance built in. If the "L" wire has more than 350 ohms then there is a problem with that wire and it will need to be fixed.
* S = a heavy gauge wire to the battery supply (horn relay)
* F = not used
* L = a small gauge wire that comes from the idiot light and energizes the alternator
* P = not used
You need to purchase a conversion adapter that is just 2 short wires and 2 connectors. One is a CS connector to plug into the alternator, the other is a female connector to accept the SI plug from your original harness. There are two different types of conversion adapters. One is a non-resistor and the other has some resistance built-in it. The "L" wire that energizes the alternator needs some resistance (35 ohms or more) in it otherwise it will cause the alternator to fail. If you have a warning light in the dash then that bulb serves as the needed resistance and you should use the non-resistor adapter. If you don't have that bulb or have less than 35 ohms resistance in the "L" wire then you will need the adapter with resistance built in. If the "L" wire has more than 350 ohms then there is a problem with that wire and it will need to be fixed.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,128
Likes: 21
From: North Alabama
Originally Posted by I'm Batman
No, it's not.
Take the old SI plug - the big red wire goes to the big red wire on the CS plug. The brown or white wire goes to the brown wire on the CS plug. The red and black wires with ring terminals go to the terminal bolts on the back of the CS alternator, just like they did on the SI. The connections are the same, the plug just changed.
Take the old SI plug - the big red wire goes to the big red wire on the CS plug. The brown or white wire goes to the brown wire on the CS plug. The red and black wires with ring terminals go to the terminal bolts on the back of the CS alternator, just like they did on the SI. The connections are the same, the plug just changed.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by I'm Batman
No, it's not.
Take the old SI plug - the big red wire goes to the big red wire on the CS plug. The brown or white wire goes to the brown wire on the CS plug. The red and black wires with ring terminals go to the terminal bolts on the back of the CS alternator, just like they did on the SI. The connections are the same, the plug just changed.
Take the old SI plug - the big red wire goes to the big red wire on the CS plug. The brown or white wire goes to the brown wire on the CS plug. The red and black wires with ring terminals go to the terminal bolts on the back of the CS alternator, just like they did on the SI. The connections are the same, the plug just changed.
So the large red wire from the CS plug goes to the SI large red wire, and neither go to the 12V post on the alt?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
Originally Posted by Jclgodale3
Will you please look at my diagram on page 6 and explain what connection goes where? This is getting to be a pain in the ****
Connect the big red wire on the SI plug to the big red wire on the CS plug.
Connect the smaller white or brown wire on the SI plug to the brown wire on the CS plug (the center position of the smaller terminals on the CS plug - labeled "L").
Connect the red "bat" wire to the "Bat" terminal on the CS (you'll probably have to cut the old ring terminal off and put a much bigger one on).
That's the way the plugs sold by the alternator parts page are wired, as you can see in their photo:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/CS-144_Special_offer.htm
If you don't have a "GEN" warning light on your dash, you'll need a 35 ohm (I think) resistor in the brown wire.
Last edited by I'm Batman; Sep 10, 2006 at 03:06 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by I'm Batman
The way I understand it is that the connections are the same between the alternators, they just switched to a 4-pin Weatherpack plug for the CS series. Not a bad idea, I always thought that the SI plug invited water intrusion and shorts.
Connect the big red wire on the SI plug to the big red wire on the CS plug.
Connect the smaller white or brown wire on the SI plug to the brown wire on the CS plug (the center position of the smaller terminals on the CS plug - labeled "L").
Connect the red "bat" wire to the "Bat" terminal on the CS (you'll probably have to cut the old ring terminal off and put a much bigger one on).
That's the way the plugs sold by the alternator parts page are wired, as you can see in their photo:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/CS-144_Special_offer.htm
If you don't have a "GEN" warning light on your dash, you'll need a 35 ohm (I think) resistor in the brown wire.
Connect the big red wire on the SI plug to the big red wire on the CS plug.
Connect the smaller white or brown wire on the SI plug to the brown wire on the CS plug (the center position of the smaller terminals on the CS plug - labeled "L").
Connect the red "bat" wire to the "Bat" terminal on the CS (you'll probably have to cut the old ring terminal off and put a much bigger one on).
That's the way the plugs sold by the alternator parts page are wired, as you can see in their photo:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/CS-144_Special_offer.htm
If you don't have a "GEN" warning light on your dash, you'll need a 35 ohm (I think) resistor in the brown wire.
Batman - I just made one like you described, similar to the pic but I cut off the SI plug and just butt-spliced the wires, and heat-shrank around it.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,662
Likes: 8
From: Knoxville Tennessee
I buy my beer by the keg. A 12 oz. beer costs about 37 cents and all I have to do is pull the handle on the outside of the frig with a frosty mug underneath! The adapter should work so long as your alt has the regulator that doesn't have the self sensing built into it. Again, there are at least 15 different regulators the CS144 used depending on the vehicle it was used in and how it may have worked with the computer. The one I have senses current need from inside the alt. directly to the batt lug. Also it depends on how many wires you have coming out of the CS plug; mine only has one, again, it doesn't need the sensing wire. Good luck with your installs! It should make a big difference when they are working correctly.
Bernie
Bernie
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
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Originally Posted by I'm Batman
No, it's not.
Take the old SI plug - the big red wire goes to the big red wire on the CS plug. The brown or white wire goes to the brown wire on the CS plug. The red and black wires with ring terminals go to the terminal bolts on the back of the CS alternator, just like they did on the SI. The connections are the same, the plug just changed.
Take the old SI plug - the big red wire goes to the big red wire on the CS plug. The brown or white wire goes to the brown wire on the CS plug. The red and black wires with ring terminals go to the terminal bolts on the back of the CS alternator, just like they did on the SI. The connections are the same, the plug just changed.
As far as the red and black wires with ring terminals, one is a ground and one is the output from the alt to the horn relay (10Ga on my factory harness) and on to the starter and battery.
Here is a shot of my wiring diagram showing the stock wiring configuration:
Last edited by shafrs3; Sep 10, 2006 at 04:42 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
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From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by Jclgodale3
Will you please look at my diagram on page 6 and explain what connection goes where? This is getting to be a pain in the ****
Jclgodale3 - Take a look at the pic I posted towards the bottom of the adapter I made. It's exctly like Batman described it, only I cut off my Si plug, and wired directly to the CS plug. The red wires could also go to the BAT lug, but the wire from the harness seems to be the same thing.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,441
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I would also recommend if you haven't already done this, going back with the voltmeter verifying you've infact got 12v switched at the L terminal and 12v unswitched at the S terminal, again from the end of the plug. This will eliminate any defects (defective plug?) or errors all the way through to the alternator.
Also, take a look at the picture of the back of my CS144 and verify that the terminals are in the same order, just to be sure.
If this doesn't turn up anything then it would help to have the schematic of your car to verify the two connectorized wires that plugged into the SI. You could try substituting the white wire for the red on that L terminal, wouldn't cause any harm. Jclgodale3, I think we're close and we haven't fried anything yet.
I'm going to shoot, gut, skin and have this trouble for dinner.
Also, take a look at the picture of the back of my CS144 and verify that the terminals are in the same order, just to be sure.
If this doesn't turn up anything then it would help to have the schematic of your car to verify the two connectorized wires that plugged into the SI. You could try substituting the white wire for the red on that L terminal, wouldn't cause any harm. Jclgodale3, I think we're close and we haven't fried anything yet.
I'm going to shoot, gut, skin and have this trouble for dinner.
Last edited by shafrs3; Sep 15, 2006 at 08:43 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by shafrs3
I would also recommend if you haven't already done this, going back and with the voltmeter verifying you've infarct got 12v switched at the L terminal and 12v unswitched at the S terminal, again from the end of the plug. This will eliminate any defects (defective plug?) or errors all the way through to the alternator.
Also, take a look at the picture of the back of my CS144 and verify that the terminals are in the same order, just to be sure.
If this doesn't turn up anything then it would help to have the schematic of your car to verify the two connectorized wires that plugged into the SI. You could try substituting the white wire for the red on that L terminal, wouldn't cause any harm. I think we're close, we haven't fried anything yet.
I'm going to shoot, gut, skin and have this trouble for dinner.
Also, take a look at the picture of the back of my CS144 and verify that the terminals are in the same order, just to be sure.
If this doesn't turn up anything then it would help to have the schematic of your car to verify the two connectorized wires that plugged into the SI. You could try substituting the white wire for the red on that L terminal, wouldn't cause any harm. I think we're close, we haven't fried anything yet.
I'm going to shoot, gut, skin and have this trouble for dinner.
Okay, update man. I made the harness using the stock wires on my 1977. Large red to large red, and small brown to small brown...as in pic below. The large red has 12V constant. The small brown has .04V no matter switched or not. Puzzling yes?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,441
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Electrics can do funny things, the only fool proof way in dealing with them is with a schematic drawing, it's the road map to get you where you want to go. If it were my car and I didn't have any electronics onboard I might be inclined to put ground or battery on that brown lead to see if the alternator lamp lights. Worst thing that could happen is blowing a fuse, which would give me a clue as to what circuit I was dealing with.
Last edited by shafrs3; Sep 10, 2006 at 05:34 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by shafrs3
Electrics can do funny things, the only fool proof way in dealing with them is with a schematic drawing. It's a road map to get you where you want to go. If it were my car and I didn't have any electronics onboard I might be inclined to put ground or battery on that brown lead to see if the alternator lamp lights. Worst thing that could happen is blowing a fuse, which would give me a clue as to what circuit I was dealing with.
'S' - Large Red
'F' - Small Black
'L' - Small Red
'P' - NOTHING
For my adapter, I cut the black wire because my factory plug only had a large red and a small brown, and the way we all came up with using didn't call for the black 'F' wire to be used. What is that black 'F' wire used for?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,128
Likes: 21
From: North Alabama
Ok shafrs3, here's where I'm at, The red coming from The Cs plug is wired directly into the red constant 12v on my si plug. The brown "l" wire (tried it with 330 0hm resistor and without, no difference) coming out of the CS plug is pluged directly into my white wire (switched 12v wire) on the original si plug. Original 10Ga red wire attached to the Bat lug on the CS. 12.25v non running. 12.29v running and when the Mark VIII fan comes on it goes to 11.49v checking it at the bat lug on the alternator with an ohm meter
No over heated wires that I can find.
Should all the grounds from the original harness with the ring be ground to the back of the alternator via a bolt? Just double checking
No over heated wires that I can find.Should all the grounds from the original harness with the ring be ground to the back of the alternator via a bolt? Just double checking
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,128
Likes: 21
From: North Alabama
Originally Posted by BerniesVette
I buy my beer by the keg. A 12 oz. beer costs about 37 cents and all I have to do is pull the handle on the outside of the frig with a frosty mug underneath! The adapter should work so long as your alt has the regulator that doesn't have the self sensing built into it. Again, there are at least 15 different regulators the CS144 used depending on the vehicle it was used in and how it may have worked with the computer. The one I have senses current need from inside the alt. directly to the batt lug. Also it depends on how many wires you have coming out of the CS plug; mine only has one, again, it doesn't need the sensing wire. Good luck with your installs! It should make a big difference when they are working correctly.
Bernie
Bernie
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,128
Likes: 21
From: North Alabama
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
Mine doesn't charge either. I just started it, and with the tester on the 12V lug on the back of the alt and grounded I showed 12.80V running. No good.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by Jclgodale3
Unbelievable. How hard can this be?
Did you ever test the small white wire from the SI plug to see if it switched to 12V with the key? I tested mine and it was .03/4V no matter the position of the key.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,128
Likes: 21
From: North Alabama
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
Did you ever test the small white wire from the SI plug to see if it switched to 12V with the key? I tested mine and it was .03/4V no matter the position of the key.
