454 2 bolt.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,717
Likes: 121
From: Sulphur LA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06,'11,'13-'14,'16,'18,'19,'24, '25
Well i have decided that if i add an edelbrock package it will be the performer RPM.(including alu cylynder heads , intake,carb,cam) Adverised it is 539pft\lbs and 540HP. (max torque is between 3000and5500rpm)
I will not use that car at a higher rpm than 5500 (automatic shifts before 5500 as it is anyway. \ TH400)
I was hoping that my engine would be ok with this package with modifications i dont need a machine shop for. if not, it will newer be installed. (the it will be: start to save money for crate engine.)
Does it sound ok to run this package if i have the stock 2 bolt w\ studs???
I will not use that car at a higher rpm than 5500 (automatic shifts before 5500 as it is anyway. \ TH400)
I was hoping that my engine would be ok with this package with modifications i dont need a machine shop for. if not, it will newer be installed. (the it will be: start to save money for crate engine.)
Does it sound ok to run this package if i have the stock 2 bolt w\ studs???
The factory 2 bolt block will handle that with out any trouble if preped right.
Neal
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger
Why don't you find a local engine builder that you can trust and have him advise you on a performance package? Edelbrock's heads aren't bad but their cams are old school. Different car's weight, tranny, gearing, converter, etc. and intended useage will call for different camshafts. The cam for a 4000lbs Chevelle won't be the same as for a 3300lbs Corvette or a 5000lbs truck. If you can scrape funds together, go hydraulic roller. The AlGore faction of our government is doing all they can to remove all the additives from oil that provide adequate lubrication for flat tappet camshafts and as they do, you'll see more and more folks with flat cams, even those that have successful cam break-ins and thousands of miles of run time on them. One flattened cam lobe will cost you much more than the switch to hydraulic roller right now.
Well it is not so normal bulding engines here in norway, as it is at your place. So finding a goood engine builder over here is not as easy as it sounds.
That is one of the many reasons to use this forum for information.
And one of the reasons i have been looking at packages.
What do you people thin about going w\ the performer RPM pacge, but changing out the cam w\ a hydraulic roller. (I deffently see the advantage there, if someone could tell me witch one to pick.)
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 26
From: Clymer PA
I have been running a two bolt 454 block for a few years and with lots of 1/4 mile passes and have never had a problem. I went with ARP main studs though. I usually shift between 6500-7000RPMs.
Last edited by bence13_33; Apr 23, 2007 at 01:15 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Well it is not so normal bulding engines here in norway, as it is at your place. So finding a goood engine builder over here is not as easy as it sounds.
That is one of the many reasons to use this forum for information.
And one of the reasons i have been looking at packages.
What do you people thin about going w\ the performer RPM pacge, but changing out the cam w\ a hydraulic roller. (I deffently see the advantage there, if someone could tell me witch one to pick.)
That is one of the many reasons to use this forum for information.
And one of the reasons i have been looking at packages.
What do you people thin about going w\ the performer RPM pacge, but changing out the cam w\ a hydraulic roller. (I deffently see the advantage there, if someone could tell me witch one to pick.)
http://www.compcams.com/
1-800-999-0853
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger
Talk to CompCams, they'll ask the right questions and give the right answers.
http://www.compcams.com/
1-800-999-0853
http://www.compcams.com/
1-800-999-0853
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
You can call Comp 3 times in the same day, get 3 different guys and 3 completely different answers. Most of their phone salesmen aren't engine builders, just trained to sell cams. This is the same company that uses "hardened cast cores" on a lot of their hydraulic roller cams. Rollers need steel cores, period, whether they're hydraulic or solid. That's what all OEM cams are. Unless you're in a big hurry, take a few minutes head over to www.chevelles.com. Harold Brookshire hangs out there at times, he designed the Extreme cams for comp and Voodoo for Lunati. There are a lot of good engine builders there, look for posts by "Wolfplace". That's Mike Lewis. He's very helpful and knowledgeable, a racer and engine builder. He's personally dyno tested boatloads of cams and can give you a recommendation that's coming from someone who knows engine building and design. You might have to register there to search, but it's free like it is here. That site has as many knowledgeable street engine folks as you'll find and the big majority of them are very willing to help out with every aspect of engine planning and building. You'll be surprised how many of those guys own Corvettes!
Good luck!
Good luck!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Wow! Guess I've been fortunate not to have experienced that myself. But, then I usually call with more questions than they have. Next time I'm down there, I'll try to remember to pass on your observation to Scooter. Personally, I'm looking at the Extreme Street Rollers that's not on the regular menu, and glad you brought up the point about the steel core.
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; Apr 30, 2007 at 08:41 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger
You can call Comp 3 times in the same day, get 3 different guys and 3 completely different answers. Most of their phone salesmen aren't engine builders, just trained to sell cams. This is the same company that uses "hardened cast cores" on a lot of their hydraulic roller cams. Rollers need steel cores, period, whether they're hydraulic or solid. That's what all OEM cams are. Unless you're in a big hurry, take a few minutes head over to www.chevelles.com. Harold Brookshire hangs out there at times, he designed the Extreme cams for comp and Voodoo for Lunati. There are a lot of good engine builders there, look for posts by "Wolfplace". That's Mike Lewis. He's very helpful and knowledgeable, a racer and engine builder. He's personally dyno tested boatloads of cams and can give you a recommendation that's coming from someone who knows engine building and design. You might have to register there to search, but it's free like it is here. That site has as many knowledgeable street engine folks as you'll find and the big majority of them are very willing to help out with every aspect of engine planning and building. You'll be surprised how many of those guys own Corvettes!
Good luck!
Good luck!
I am i no hurry. i am collecting info for the next winters project.
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Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
I'm not saying that Comp doesn't make good products, I just feel a lot more comfortable going with a reputable engine builder's recommendations since it's real-world and up to date testing.
Scooter's may be the one of the 3 that hits the cam dead-on, but how is the caller supposed to know that? Most people will find that they get a better recommendation if they have all the needed info handy. Carb to pan, suspension, weight, head flow, yada yada.
Scooter's may be the one of the 3 that hits the cam dead-on, but how is the caller supposed to know that? Most people will find that they get a better recommendation if they have all the needed info handy. Carb to pan, suspension, weight, head flow, yada yada.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Absolutely. The more info you have together, the more accurate recommendations you'll get.
btw... Don't call CompCams asking for Scooter. He doesn't exactly work the phones.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger
What is the conclution that i should do.
Could i youst order the full edelbrock performer rpm package. without the cam. and the oreder a roller cam with the same specks as the edelbrock performer cam????
Would the prefered specks on the cam change much from "normal" to roller??
Could i youst order the full edelbrock performer rpm package. without the cam. and the oreder a roller cam with the same specks as the edelbrock performer cam????
Would the prefered specks on the cam change much from "normal" to roller??
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
What is the conclution that i should do.
Could i youst order the full edelbrock performer rpm package. without the cam. and the oreder a roller cam with the same specks as the edelbrock performer cam????
Would the prefered specks on the cam change much from "normal" to roller??
Could i youst order the full edelbrock performer rpm package. without the cam. and the oreder a roller cam with the same specks as the edelbrock performer cam????
Would the prefered specks on the cam change much from "normal" to roller??
Also, the cam best suited to your needs may not have the same profile for intake and exhaust. That's OK, as long as it's being done to compensate for the exhaust flow being very far from 75% of intake flow. (If you don't have headers, but plan to add them, be sure to speak up.)
Finally, if you're getting recommendations that are pretty similar from different sources, don't agonize over the subtle differences. There is no perfect cam. Select one and be happy. That said, probably the best advise I can offer would be to not leave any questions unasked or unanswered to your satisfaction by your cam tech before making this decision final.
Last edited by TheSkunkWorks; Apr 24, 2007 at 11:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger
Better cam profiles now exist for the street, and I do strongly suggest going with a roller type, but I can't presume to recommend a specific cam as the best one (what works for me may not work for you). However, I can recommend that you not go wild with duration and that you keep lobe seperation to no less than about 110 to 112 degrees, or low-end and mid-range torque may well suffer, and idle quality and vacuum will be poor. (Make sure to tell your cam tech if these matter to you!)
Also, the cam best suited to your needs may not have the same profile for intake and exhaust. That's OK, as long as it's being done to compensate for the exhaust flow being very far from 75% of intake flow. (If you don't have headers, but plan to add them, be sure to speak up.)
Finally, if you're getting recommendations that are pretty similar from different sources, don't agonize over the subtle differences. There is no perfect cam. Select one and be happy. That said, probably the best advise I can offer would be to not leave any questions unasked or unanswered to your satisfaction by your cam tech before making this decision final.
Also, the cam best suited to your needs may not have the same profile for intake and exhaust. That's OK, as long as it's being done to compensate for the exhaust flow being very far from 75% of intake flow. (If you don't have headers, but plan to add them, be sure to speak up.)
Finally, if you're getting recommendations that are pretty similar from different sources, don't agonize over the subtle differences. There is no perfect cam. Select one and be happy. That said, probably the best advise I can offer would be to not leave any questions unasked or unanswered to your satisfaction by your cam tech before making this decision final.
Here is the spec on the Edelbrock cam. As stated earlier in this tread. I am looking for max torque between 1500 and 5500RPM all power above 5500rpm will not be used. In what area should i change the specks from the Edelbrock cam. Apart from that i order a roller cam????
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,500-6,500 RPM
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 246
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240 int./246 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 300
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 306
Advertised Duration: 300 int./306 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.560 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.573 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.560 int./0.573 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
Thanks for good info.
Here is the spec on the Edelbrock cam. As stated earlier in this tread. I am looking for max torque between 1500 and 5500RPM all power above 5500rpm will not be used. In what area should i change the specks from the Edelbrock cam. Apart from that i order a roller cam????...........
Here is the spec on the Edelbrock cam. As stated earlier in this tread. I am looking for max torque between 1500 and 5500RPM all power above 5500rpm will not be used. In what area should i change the specks from the Edelbrock cam. Apart from that i order a roller cam????...........
When talking to a good cam tech, you'll need to furnish a good bit of info about your engine (carb, intake, heads, displacement, exhaust...), transmission, vehicle, intended use, fuel, if you have vacuum brakes... The more questions they ask, the better.
My personal suspicion is that you'll find a good street roller hydraulic with 270-280 advertised and near or about 0.600" that will do a better job.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger
Well. i have now mailed edelbrock and told them that i intend to buy their package without the cam. because i would like a roller cam. i asked them to give me the speck of a cam that could work with their package.
also maild Comp cam. and asked them the same question, and if they could recomend a package.'
Informed both of the following.
To be used at 1500-5500RPM
want to be able to drive at 95octane unleaded fuel.(can use addetives, but would prefer the posibility not to.)
Weight of car 3500lbs
rear diff 3,73
tire hight (stock.)
uutomatic transmission TH 400.
Will cange to 2500 torque converter if recomended.
will use recomended size headers.
I really look forward to see if the answer from edelbrock, and comp cam are in the same area.
also maild Comp cam. and asked them the same question, and if they could recomend a package.'
Informed both of the following.
To be used at 1500-5500RPM
want to be able to drive at 95octane unleaded fuel.(can use addetives, but would prefer the posibility not to.)
Weight of car 3500lbs
rear diff 3,73
tire hight (stock.)
uutomatic transmission TH 400.
Will cange to 2500 torque converter if recomended.
will use recomended size headers.
I really look forward to see if the answer from edelbrock, and comp cam are in the same area.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger
On first glance at the cam specs you provided, that's an awful lot of duration for the amount of lift. Modern street roller designs typically mean less of a compromise between performance and driveability.
When talking to a good cam tech, you'll need to furnish a good bit of info about your engine (carb, intake, heads, displacement, exhaust...), transmission, vehicle, intended use, fuel, if you have vacuum brakes... The more questions they ask, the better.
My personal suspicion is that you'll find a good street roller hydraulic with 270-280 advertised and near or about 0.600" that will do a better job.
When talking to a good cam tech, you'll need to furnish a good bit of info about your engine (carb, intake, heads, displacement, exhaust...), transmission, vehicle, intended use, fuel, if you have vacuum brakes... The more questions they ask, the better.
My personal suspicion is that you'll find a good street roller hydraulic with 270-280 advertised and near or about 0.600" that will do a better job.
Found another one from edelbrock.
What about this one??
Brand: Edelbrock
Product Line: Edelbrock Performer RPM Hydraulic Roller Camshafts
Part Type: Camshafts
Cam Style: Hydraulic roller tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,500-6,500
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 236
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 245
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 236 int./245 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 335
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 339
Advertised Duration: 335 int./339 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.625 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.639 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.625 int./0.639 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 112
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Quantity: Sold individually.
Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 235/339, Lift .625/.639, Chevy, Big Block, Each
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 81
From: Nashville, TN
These are what I did my 383 sb with. I cost me 75 for the labor to install & machining.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...S&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...S&autoview=sku
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
These are what I did my 383 sb with. I cost me 75 for the labor to install & machining.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...S&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...S&autoview=sku
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,353
Likes: 72
From: Graceland in a Not Correctly Restored Stingray
I looked that one up (Performer RPM Hyd. Roller #2261), and the thing that raises my eyebrow is such a huge advertised duration given the duration at .050". It might be a possible sign of much less agressive ramps than some other current designs that could spend more time at max lift (more dwell).
Then again, it's just as likely I'm not familiar enough with how Edelbrock arrives at their advertised numbers to know how they relate. If more lobe profile info was given in the catalog (knowing duration at .200" would be nice) a better idea could be had.
Perhaps there's someone on the forum has experience with this particular stick, and they would be able to relate how it compares better than I can. You may want to do a search, or start another thread to find out.
btw... remember that with high lift and big duration, you've got to pay particular attention to valve/piston clearance, too
Then again, it's just as likely I'm not familiar enough with how Edelbrock arrives at their advertised numbers to know how they relate. If more lobe profile info was given in the catalog (knowing duration at .200" would be nice) a better idea could be had.
Perhaps there's someone on the forum has experience with this particular stick, and they would be able to relate how it compares better than I can. You may want to do a search, or start another thread to find out.
btw... remember that with high lift and big duration, you've got to pay particular attention to valve/piston clearance, too