Desktop Dyno (http://www.proracingsim.com/) is a useful tool for exploring engine options. The "accuracy" is completely dependent on how good the model is with the largest impact from head flow and cam specs. It is just a simulator and "your milage may (will) vary." I've been spending a lot of time with it over the past couple of years and I've built a good database of heads/cams - primarily SBC - and been able to compare results to real dyno results (my own engines, others engines and crate engines) for a reality check.

So: you post the information below, and I'll run the sims and post the "dyno" charts for discussion. Please note - a) it gets done when it gets done and "pushes" for speed will result in the run not being done and b) one run/customer. Sorry about the latter, but making 20 runs to try different cams is just too darn much work. I'll do a few if needed...but that's it. I have a life, too

What you need to post:
The more complete information you post, the better quality we get from the DD run - and the quicker I can put it together. I don't need information beyond what's here (valve spring closed pressure, spark plug gap, girlfriend bikini size...wait, I might need that... ). Incomplete information = no DD run; I'm not going to chase this stuff down

• Platform (BBC/SBC) - I don't do other makes
• Displacement, bore, stroke, rod length.
• Cylinder heads, valve sizes - flow numbers are a big help here and a link to the web site (AFR, etc.) for your aftermarket head is great!
• Compression ratio, or the information to calculate (piston compression height, etc.)
• Induction - carb CFM, manifold type
• Header tube size and system
• Camshaft and rocker ratio - this is the tough one and the one that has the single biggest impact. You must have the cam card to make this happen. Most cam vendors have these online and a LINK to the cam card is the best option. Without the cam card - not the specs, the card - I'll have to pass as there just won't be any useful results
• Forced induction is a whole 'nother can of worms; PM me if you're interested in this and we'll work it out offline then post.

Since it's so common, let me answer one broad question: "How much power will a stock Vortec top make on my C3?" The answer is around 330 HP and 400 TQ at the crank, with a high-rise dual-plane, long-tube headers and free-flowing exhaust and the right tune.

 

This is a very cool offer. I bet this thead is going to get a lot of action. Thanks for doing mine a few weeks ago. Robert

 

I am leaving town for a couple of days but will get my numbers to you on the weekend when I have more time. Gotta go.....

shmoky

 

Good idea billla. I would also be interested in seeing how the DD dyno numbers compare to the engine dyno numbers if the person has had that done.

 

U betcha - I've got 30 or so "validated" dyno DD runs. It's really helped me tune the models and find disconnects.

 

Do you want all the #'s poster here or emailed to you? I think I have everything except an actual cam card. I do have a link to the site with there listing #'s but not an actual cam card. I am thinking I will have to phone them tomorrow for the actual cam card numbers

shmoky

Ok I will add the #'s here.

LS5 454 BBC
bored .030 over. Stock stroke, and stock rod length.
Forged pistons
Cylinder heads… Chev… 3964290 101cc chamber oval closed. (shaved 12 thous)
Intake Valve: 2.19 undercut
Exhaust Valve 1.72 undercut
Rocker ration 1.72 ratio
Compression: 10.3:1
Carb: Holley Street Avenger 770
Aluminum Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake manifold (# 7161 12105)
Exhaust: 2 ½” Headman headers

Camshaft: Comp Cam extreme energy CCA-CL11-246-3 Here’s the link http://store.summitracing.com/partde...3&autoview=sku

Camshaft Specification Table
Part Number 11-246-3
Engine 1965-1996 Chevrolet396ci-454ci8cyl.
Grind Number CB XE274H-10
Description

Intake Exhaust
Valve Adjustment 0 0
Gross Valve Lift 0.552 0.555
Duration At 0.006 Tappet Lift 274 286

Valve Timing At 0.006
Open Close
Intake 31 63
Exhaust 77 29

These Specs Are For The Cam Installed At 106 Intake CL
Intake Exhaust
Duration At 0.05 230 236
Lobe Lift 0.325 0.327
Lobe Separation 110

Recommended Valve Springs 924-16

I have 3 other cams I would like the sims run on if you are willing.

thanx,

shmoky

 

Excellent !!!! I'll be sending you some numbers in the next couple days (plus a girl friend pic)

 

Thanks for this offer. I'm going to give you all the info that I have and if it's not enough I'll try to get more if you need it.

L48 SBC 350 dished pistons, all stock bottom end
Here is what I'm adding:
GM vortec 64cc iron heads 170cc intake runner,valves 1.94/1.50
Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake
670 cfm Holley carb
CompCam Magnum 270H flat tappet 1.5 ratio/ link below
Dynomax 1 5/8 headers,2 1/2 inch true duals Magnaflow no cats

Cam link: http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Se...umber=12-242-2

Vortec L31 flow chart link: http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com...20Small%20Port

That is all I have ,if you need more I'll try to find it. Engine won't be done till next week. Thanks in advance

 

Shmoky, this was very complete - thanks! I would like everything posted in the forum as folks can see exactly what's there and then the results. I'm also happy to mail all the files if you want them.

Not sure you're going to be completely happy with these numbers. Without flow numbers, the only thing I can do is take the stock 290 flow numbers and "guestimate" the impact of larger valves. I created a new .FLW file for the 290 head based on CHP's flow testing.

 

PM's with bikini pics (especially if your 'Vette is in the background) get top priority

 

Nope, this is everything I need. I already had a stock L-48 engine file, so it just needed some updates and we're good to go. I also had the .CAM and my own Vortech flow file - so this one was easy It's a sweet curve - fat torque down low and a really nice power peak. Should be a smooth beast!

 

Thanx for the quick sim. Here is another cam in the same motor if you don't mind.
a link to the cam:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...K&autoview=sku

Couldn't find a Camshaft Specification Table like I did on the other cam. Hope this is enuf.

shmoky

PS looking for a picture with a girl in it with little clothing lol

 

Here's the link to the cam card; I created a new .CAM file from this for future use. This is kind of the hard work with DD - building a library of .CAM (cam) and .FLW (head) files.

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/60201.pdf

It's YOUR job to give ME a picture

Interesting change - I didn't look at this too hard but it sure perked up the low-end torque curve at the expense of HP and the RPM it comes in at.

 

I agree it is interesting. The duration is less and the lobe seperation is only a little higher. I didn't expect that much difference. the operating range on the Lunati is 1000-5000 while on the Comp 246 it is 1800-6000. Here is one more if you don't mind again.

link to cam specs.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

I know I was supposed to supply a picture but the one I had has disappeared and my model was too shy today (55*F) to take a new one. Here's a picture of the model but no car.


shmoky

 

That pic works for me - cute kid

Pretty impressive results here - I need to take another look at the Lunati specs...the results don't seem quite right to me.

 

Thanx for doing this for me Billa. It is greatly appreciated. Those aren't the results I expected. I agree the Lunati #'s don't seem right (but what do I know). I expected more out of the XE274 (1st one). The Lunati is the one that was in the car when I bought it. The SOTP power was impressive even with a couple of the lobes wiped. (but there was definetly something missing) Upon your second look at this one if you find anything different please let me know. The 3rd one is one that was recommend by another forum member (Jackson). I do like the looks of this one.

You said you had to 'take the stock 290 flow numbers and "guestimate" the impact of larger valves.' How can I get the true flow numbes? I will do a search on the site and see if there are any instructions. But the motor is in pieces right now and I assume that will be a problem.

Again thanx for the help and I may throw some more numbers at you later. As long as you are willing to do this I'm surprised there isn't a HUGE lineup for your generous offer.

shmoky

 

Hey Billa, I been debating over actually getting it dynoed. Pretty mild setup and this one will be easy for ya. Thanks in advance.
350 .060 over stock bottom end with dish pistons.
stock vortec heads (excpet a little bigger springs to accept bigger then stock cam). the modified ones from SDPC.
Edelbrock Performer with 600 Holley.
1 5/8" ceramic Flowtech headers to sidepipes.
Comp XE262 cam http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku
that work for ya ?

 

Billa,
Thanks for the offer, exactly what I need to give the sanity check to my planned '69 motor. I've got the rotating assembly, just picking the rest of the components. I'm looking for big power in the 2500-5500 range, to go with my TKO-600, 3.70 gears and 28" tires. I'm running sidepipes, so I've got to have some cam duration to make it sound right and I hope to keep it around 10:1 compression. Here's my plan, not written in stone.

Block 4.060
Crank 3.75" Stroke
Pistons TRW Forged Flat Top 2 valve relief
Rods 5.7"
Head Gasket .049"
Heads AFR 195 76cc chamber
2.050 intake flow 274 cfm @.500 lift
1.60 exhaust flow 207 cfm @.500 lift
Intake Edlebrock Performer RPM Air Gap
Carb Holley 4779 750cfm mechanical secondary
Exhaust 1 7/8" Sidepipe headers into 4" pipes
Cam Lunati Voodoo LUN-60103LK http://store.summitracing.com/partde...K&autoview=sku
227/233 Duration at .050
.489/.504 Lift with 1.5 rockers

Any verification or alternate suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jimbo

 

Hi there Billa, from the land downunder....

If you have some time to throw these specs in, I'd appreciate it.

Chev 383 stroker: 4.03" bore x 3.75" stroke
5.7" rods, 9.015" deck height

Edelbrock Etec-200 heads #60989..... 64cc chambers, 2.02" intake/1.60" exhaust valves
10.3:1 compression ratio
Ports are cnc machined to match the intake...

Head flow data I've found from a web tech article... don't know how accurate it is....
Intake Exhaust
@.200 123cfm 106 cfm
@.300 177 144
@.400 220 179
@.500 252 194
@.550 255 201
@.600 257 206

Edelbrock #7516 Vortec RPM Airgap dual plane manifold

custom ground hydraulic roller cam... similar to edelbrock #2207
@050 : 242/240 with 0.594 lift using CompCam #1301-16 (1.5:1) roller rockers
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_.../2207_Card.pdf

Edelbrock #1813 800cfm 4 barrel carb
and 1-3/4" long tube headers with mufflers and 2-1/2" free flowing twin exhaust system

HEI ignition and 8mm leads

If you need any other info, let me know.

I ordered this crate engine from the US back in April, and have waited for quite a while for delivery via slow boat....should get it delivered this week (hopefully).

I would like to see what Dynosim comes up with as its potential power output.... builder has quoted 475hp @ 5800 / 466 lbft @ 4500, but I haven't seen a dyno sheet.
I also orderred a TKO-600 5sp last week. Requested air-freight and it's ready for pickup tomorrow.
(I should have requested air-freight for the engine)

I will run this up on a chassis dyno once installed, to see how accurate/optimistic? the engine builder is.

I'm hoping I'll see 370~380 rwhp and be able to pull easy 12's in my ol '68 vert with this combo..... if I can get traction

cheers
tom

 

Heres mine when you have the time
Bore x stroke SBC
4.03 x 3.48 5.7in rods head gasket compressed thickness .040
Speed Pro forged aluminum +6.1 dish flat tops/4 valve reliefs generating 9.72:1 with 64cc heads
Pro topline 180cc aluminum 64cc heads with 2.02/1.60 valves
.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
Intake 72 154 208 254 271 274 276
Exhaust 60 121 159 184 193 199 202
Comp Cams XS282S-10 http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Se...umber=12-678-4
1.5 rockers, here are the springs http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
Demon 725 vac. sec. w/electric choke, Edlebrock Performer EPS intake, HVH Super Sucker carb spacer.
Hooker side exit exhaust with no inserts, 1 7/8 tubes

-alex