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Master cylinder and engine issues?

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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 03:39 AM
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Default Master cylinder and engine issues?

I was lucky enough the get my '75 L-82 at an abandon car aution on base (military) for only $1365...but I'm having my share of issues with it...atleast the frame and bird cage are solid!

After I replaced the ignition cylinder (with the help of this forum) It fired right up...right at ilde it sounds just fine...I apply the slightest amount of throttle and I here a knocking sound that gets louder with more throttle...I haven't pushed it past 1200 rpm just to be safe...what do you think.

I have that on hold right now...I need to be able to stop before I even think about going.

I started bleeding the breaks and after two days of no results..I bought a hand vacume pump...and with still no results I turned to the forum again. I attempted to bleed the master cylinder...here is what happend

The front Reservoir:

I disconnected the brake line and replaced it with a fitting an tube placed back into the Reservoir. Pump..pump...pump...fluid comes out. I do this for about 5 minutes wait an hour and do it for another 5 min with no air bubbles.

The rear Reservoir:

Performed the same as the front except the results....when the peddle is depressed a little air is pushed...when it is released some fluid from the Reservoir is sucked a little ways into the tube.

My guess is I need to replace the master cylinder...but I just wanted a second opinion...would you recommend rebuilding it...were should I get a kit.

Thanks in advance for the advice...I can't wait to get behid the wheel and cuise this baby!
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by bryanpl123

The rear Reservoir:

Performed the same as the front except the results....when the peddle is depressed a little air is pushed...when it is released some fluid from the Reservoir is sucked a little ways into the tube.

My guess is I need to replace the master cylinder...but I just wanted a second opinion...would you recommend rebuilding it...were should I get a kit.
I've never tried doing one reservoir at a time but it is normal for some of the fluid to go back up the tube.
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 08:14 AM
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knocking sounds like valves
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 08:53 AM
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Bryan, pull the valve covers and look for any rockers that are cracked or have fallen off the valve. Look for broken springs or missing retainers, and check the push rods for bends.
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 10:44 AM
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How long has this car been sitting ? Are the Brake calipers leaking ?
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 11:13 AM
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I hope that knocking isn't a main bearing

Get yourself a new master cylinder... they are cheap.
Bench bleed the new master cylinder and install it.
Get yourself a vaccum brake bleeder, the kind that vaccums from the brake caliper and hooks up to your air compressor.
Vaccum Vaccum Vacccum, each caliper until each the fluid being vaccumed from each caliper has clean fluid coming out.
Be sure, to make sure you keep putting brake fluid into the master cyl while you doing it... dont want to suck air into the lines, and you'll be surpised how fast the level in the cyl goes down while your vaccuming.

Hopefully you don't have issues with the calipers themselve, as they can be expensive.
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 03:46 PM
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The car has been sitting ...I'm guessing since 2000...that is when the liscense plate were renewed last. The calipers are not leaking, so thats good. And I only bleed one side of the master cylinder at a time because I only had one fitting, this should still work right?

I bought a hand vacume pump from the local auto place, checkers, unfortunatly that was all that they had. I'm stationed at pearl harbor, so being on an island it is a little harder to get everything you need when you need it.

I think I will play with the breaks for one more day...then order a new master cylinder online if it doesn't go as planned.

Since I'll have to wait a while...I'll dive into the engine. Thanks for the tips!
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 04:12 PM
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There's NAPA auto part stores near you. You can get a good rebuilt master cylinder from NAPA for less than $30. It's easy to replace.

You are bleeding at the brake calipers, right? Should start at the right rear wheel, then left rear, then right front and finally left front.

EDIT: I just re-read your post that you're trying to bleed the master cylinder.

Last edited by VRGSVET; Nov 11, 2008 at 04:27 PM.
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bryanpl123
And I only bleed one side of the master cylinder at a time because I only had one fitting, this should still work right?
If your bleeding the rear port with the fitting what are you doing with the front port ?
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Old Nov 11, 2008 | 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DWncchs
If your bleeding the rear port with the fitting what are you doing with the front port ?
I have one fitting...and one plug
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 12:43 PM
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After bleeding the master cylinder with a vacume hand pump..then gravity bleeding the lines for 4 hours and vacume bleeding the lines then gravity again for 4 hours and then vacume again I still have extreamly little/no resitance when I press on the break...

When I gravity bleed the lines I opened all valves...when I vacum bleed it was one at a time Right rear inner/outter then left rear inner/outter and then the front in the same way.

I'm going to pick up a new master cylinder tonight and give that a try.

**About the Engine issue**
I pulled off the valve covers...no colapsed springs and no stuck lifters...I have to work late tonight so I will only mess with the break issue but tomorow I'm going to pull off the intake manifold and have a look...

I hope I don't have to pull then engine just yet...I planned on doing a full rebuild in a few months...I'm moving from Hawaii to Ohio in January so I need to have it all peiced together by then....and hopefully running so it is cheaper to ship...
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bryanpl123
After bleeding the master cylinder with a vacume hand pump..then gravity bleeding the lines for 4 hours and vacume bleeding the lines then gravity again for 4 hours and then vacume again I still have extreamly little/no resitance when I press on the break...

When I gravity bleed the lines I opened all valves...when I vacum bleed it was one at a time Right rear inner/outter then left rear inner/outter and then the front in the same way.

I'm going to pick up a new master cylinder tonight and give that a try.

**About the Engine issue**
I pulled off the valve covers...no colapsed springs and no stuck lifters...I have to work late tonight so I will only mess with the break issue but tomorow I'm going to pull off the intake manifold and have a look...

I hope I don't have to pull then engine just yet...I planned on doing a full rebuild in a few months...I'm moving from Hawaii to Ohio in January so I need to have it all peiced together by then....and hopefully running so it is cheaper to ship...
Yea, get that new master cyl... bench bleed the crap out of it. Bolt it up, vaccum bleed each caliper to hell again (in order), to make sure no air got into the line when swapping the master cyl.
That should do it unless the problem is leaky calipers, but you said you checked that right?

As for the motor knock... where is it coming from? Does it sound like its coming from the valve cover/head area? Or does it sound like it's coming from somewhere lower?
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 03:01 PM
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I still don't understand how you are bleeding the master cylinder. Are you saying you plug the rear and use the tube on the front? Then switch them?

Last time I checked the master fittings are different sizes.
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 04:58 PM
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Can you tell if the knock is 'metallic' sounding or if it is pre-ignition [spark pinging]? If the gas is old and/or has a low octane rating, or if the vacuum advance can on the distributor is frozen up, the engine will be retarded quite a bit and have spark pinging. If you have a clamp-on type timing light, hook it up and see where the timing is as you lightly rev the engine. If the timing is retarded, that's your problem. Other possibilities are: stuck valve lifter(s), crank bearing failure, wrist pin problem, etc. My "guess" is that the vacuum can is rusted/locked up and not working.
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 70 LS1
I still don't understand how you are bleeding the master cylinder. Are you saying you plug the rear and use the tube on the front? Then switch them?

Last time I checked the master fittings are different sizes.
Thats what I was wondering.Fittings are a diff size and when you plug one hole it would be awfully tough to push the piston in fully.
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 06:50 PM
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The plug thing is no big deal. I bench bled my first master by plugging both ports and pumping it until there were no more bubbles forming in the resevoir.
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 10:19 PM
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I just went thru the same things as you. brakes sound like master to me. At least it's cheap and easy to replace. If not then go to calipers. 1 bad caliper will spoil the whole bunch.
Engine, check plug wires with ohm meter for resistance and correct locations, I had 2 & 4 switched. I also had loose rocker arm nut. I replaced both for that cylinder and adjusted valves.
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 70 LS1
The plug thing is no big deal. I bench bled my first master by plugging both ports and pumping it until there were no more bubbles forming in the resevoir.
Interesting lesson in hydraulics.
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 11:22 PM
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I am not sure in what you are doing,sounds like you are bench bleeding on the car one system at a time due plug availability and then system bleed.When you purchase your new master cylinder which is your best bet being car sat for a long time they usually come with a bench bleeding kit before you install and then system bleed.I miss Hawaii,worked for Aloha Airlines,aircraft maintenance back in the late eighties and my son and family was stationed at Pearl Harbor,three tours.Aloha
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Old Nov 12, 2008 | 11:23 PM
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I'm not going to reach back to my college physics to try to figure it out, but it works. The bubbles come up through the little hole in the bottom of the resevoir. At first the pedal moves quite a bit, then less and less until there are no more bubbles. Then the pedal doesn't move at all.
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