Hydroboost went Hydrobust!
#42
Team Owner
But still, Gene, you're not pushing against air. You're pushing steel rods that ultimately mate to a hydraulic cylinder. Foot -> Pedal -> Push Rods -> Piston -> Fluid ... that order doesn't change regardless of if you have manual, vacuum, or hydroboost brakes. And if you were able to bottom out your pedal when you still had vacuum assist then you had something else wrong. There's no way I can bottom out my pedal. I'll smash myself through the back of the seat before that pedal bottoms out. And I can honesly lock all 4 wheels up with my big toe. Hell if I didn't get 10 mpg, I'd drive up to Jax and let you take it for a spin.
NOW, show me how in hell that is not a definitive proof test....
CASE CLOSED.....and I found NO defects in my vacuum assist booster when taking it apart...it held vac fine until i popped that check valve outta the grommet, and it was completely intact internally, nothing seemed outta place or worn...
so, it's been that way since I put the HB on there....
I did have a front hose collapse on my, so 2 new hoses and a caliper O ring set, just as before...and 2 new rotors....
but that had nothing to do with the HB setup....
#44
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2003
Location: Doha
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St. Jude Donor '08
Well, let me summarize it that way : I lost any hope with my brakes, (new 4 calipers, new m/c, new 4 braided lines .. still far from good stopping performance), but after having the HB, its much more than day/night difference! .. It is the BEST brakes I've ever experienced! ..
Note that I'm not talking about stopping distance alone, I mean the pedal feel, sensitive-ness of the pedal, and the stopping power, all are PERFECT!
Note that I'm not talking about stopping distance alone, I mean the pedal feel, sensitive-ness of the pedal, and the stopping power, all are PERFECT!
#45
Race Director
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Location: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
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You don't read very well Gene, I have manual brakes, manual, not vacuum, no booster..size 11 shoes here...
Bet you can't bottom out my pedal...only way your shoes will touch the floorboard if yo tilt them downward and then yo itty bitty toe will barely touch...so case closed...Iz have spoken...
#46
Team Owner
You don't read very well Gene, I have manual brakes, manual, not vacuum, no booster..size 11 shoes here...
Bet you can't bottom out my pedal...only way your shoes will touch the floorboard if yo tilt them downward and then yo itty bitty toe will barely touch...so case closed...Iz have spoken...
Bet you can't bottom out my pedal...only way your shoes will touch the floorboard if yo tilt them downward and then yo itty bitty toe will barely touch...so case closed...Iz have spoken...
#47
Team Owner
Well, let me summarize it that way : I lost any hope with my brakes, (new 4 calipers, new m/c, new 4 braided lines .. still far from good stopping performance), but after having the HB, its much more than day/night difference! .. It is the BEST brakes I've ever experienced! ..
Note that I'm not talking about stopping distance alone, I mean the pedal feel, sensitive-ness of the pedal, and the stopping power, all are PERFECT!
Note that I'm not talking about stopping distance alone, I mean the pedal feel, sensitive-ness of the pedal, and the stopping power, all are PERFECT!
#48
What spring? Are you talking about the diaphragm spring? That doesn't connect the input and ouput shaft. AFAIK both shafts seat in the diaphragm itself. I haven't torn apart my C3's, but I've had it out before. There was no play whatsoever between my input and output shafts. It felt like they were butting up right against each other. I wonder if maybe you had the wrong booster in your car? You should not be able to bottom out the pedal period.
Pull down the brakes on a brand new car, and there ain't much different. 1 piece floating calipers is just about the only major change since then.
Last edited by wcsinx; 04-07-2009 at 12:23 PM.
#49
Drifting
Thread Starter
HB Update!
I just got off the phone w/brake tech. He said my unit was working just fine.
He explained that there is no nitrogen charge, there is an accumulator that gets charged from the unit.
When the PS pump fails, I get 1 or 2 presses on the pedal that work, after that you have nothing. The accumulator is not designed to get you home, it gets you off the road. That's it ,I will pick it up later and report anything interesting.
I don't know if this info will help anyone, now I know.
Ricisan
He explained that there is no nitrogen charge, there is an accumulator that gets charged from the unit.
When the PS pump fails, I get 1 or 2 presses on the pedal that work, after that you have nothing. The accumulator is not designed to get you home, it gets you off the road. That's it ,I will pick it up later and report anything interesting.
I don't know if this info will help anyone, now I know.
Ricisan
#50
Melting Slicks
A few members here in this thread said the same thing. That you will get 1 to 3 stops before it dies. A few people on this forum do know what they are talking about now and then lol.
#52
Drifting
#53
Melting Slicks
Yes just the easy part goes away. You just have to push Harder lol. Sorry as I did not see a need to say the same thing that has been said many times in this one single thread. Whewwwwww
#54
Drifting
Thread Starter
After the accumulator ran out, I had nothing! I could come to a stop using the trans and brake drag, but I did not have manual brakes.
I couldn't think about driving it home.
When the tech asked me how many times I pumped the pedal, I honestly couldn't remember. During a no brake crisis, I wasn't counting how many times I pumped the pedal. I come from the old school where you just keep pumping hoping to build up some pressure.
I don't know if this helped anyone or not. I need to retrain my brain to keep my foot into the pedal and not pump the brakes in the event this happens again. I know I have the belt tighter than it was.
Ricisan
I couldn't think about driving it home.
When the tech asked me how many times I pumped the pedal, I honestly couldn't remember. During a no brake crisis, I wasn't counting how many times I pumped the pedal. I come from the old school where you just keep pumping hoping to build up some pressure.
I don't know if this helped anyone or not. I need to retrain my brain to keep my foot into the pedal and not pump the brakes in the event this happens again. I know I have the belt tighter than it was.
Ricisan
#55
Drifting
Thread Starter
Now that I think about it, I doubt that I put my foot to the floor?
I'm sure I kept pumping when I didn't feel any pedal building up.
If there was some manual brake at the bottom of the stroke, I didn't find it.
I put on the $ PS belt and used my new craftsman pry bar to get it nice and tight. Hopefully this will not come up again.
Ricisan
I'm sure I kept pumping when I didn't feel any pedal building up.
If there was some manual brake at the bottom of the stroke, I didn't find it.
I put on the $ PS belt and used my new craftsman pry bar to get it nice and tight. Hopefully this will not come up again.
Ricisan
#56
Drifting
Now that I think about it, I doubt that I put my foot to the floor?
I'm sure I kept pumping when I didn't feel any pedal building up.
If there was some manual brake at the bottom of the stroke, I didn't find it.
I put on the $ PS belt and used my new craftsman pry bar to get it nice and tight. Hopefully this will not come up again.
Ricisan
I'm sure I kept pumping when I didn't feel any pedal building up.
If there was some manual brake at the bottom of the stroke, I didn't find it.
I put on the $ PS belt and used my new craftsman pry bar to get it nice and tight. Hopefully this will not come up again.
Ricisan
#57
Team Owner
What spring? Are you talking about the diaphragm spring? That doesn't connect the input and ouput shaft. AFAIK both shafts seat in the diaphragm itself. I haven't torn apart my C3's, but I've had it out before. There was no play whatsoever between my input and output shafts. It felt like they were butting up right against each other. I wonder if maybe you had the wrong booster in your car? You should not be able to bottom out the pedal period.
Pull down the brakes on a brand new car, and there ain't much different. 1 piece floating calipers is just about the only major change since then.
all I can comment is about my battles/experiences with this '72 over some 15 years.....and it took a bit of convincing before I finally spend money to prove the case...but it WAS Norval that finally turned the case for me on this....maybe TT also....I forget...some 4-5 years ago now....
I should date reference when I do things...never have....
EDIT....thought of that old overhaul manual I have from '72,....and in there under brakes, is the section 5-22 showing the cross section of Bendix dual diaphram booster, and in there in the middle of it all is that spring I refer to above....they call it a Valve Return Spring....it has a cup in it, with the ball end of the input shaft seated there...and it presses on the diaphram with the output 'valve' shaped rod on the other side....sure enough...me not crazy....
Last edited by mrvette; 04-07-2009 at 04:15 PM.
#58
Team Owner
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Redondo Beach, California
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One thing that I think really didn't come out in all these posts is that (1) if you have a Big Block, (2) if you have a tall valve cover for roller rockers and a stud girdle, and (3) you want power brakes, then a Hydroboost is your only option. The stock vacuum can will most likely hit the valve covers.
My 68 has manual brakes and I wish I had installed power brakes. After driving all my cars with power brakes, the extra brake force required by the 68 catches me by surprise the first few times I have to apply the brakes.
My 68 has manual brakes and I wish I had installed power brakes. After driving all my cars with power brakes, the extra brake force required by the 68 catches me by surprise the first few times I have to apply the brakes.
#59
EDIT....thought of that old overhaul manual I have from '72,....and in there under brakes, is the section 5-22 showing the cross section of Bendix dual diaphram booster, and in there in the middle of it all is that spring I refer to above....they call it a Valve Return Spring....it has a cup in it, with the ball end of the input shaft seated there...and it presses on the diaphram with the output 'valve' shaped rod on the other side....sure enough...me not crazy....
I still contend that isn't why your pedal was bottoming out though.
#60
Burning Brakes
Rick, now that you have the car moving again, take it for a test run, shut the engine down and see what the brake response is. That way, you will be prepared for the next time which is hopefully never Mine feels much like manual brakes after the accumulator loses pressure.