E85 fuel test on my C3
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 1
From: Michigan
7T1VETTE: I read the article in your link and it says they haven't finished the study and have not reached any conclusions but acknowledge that Ethanol can cause problems in classic car systems. The article also states they are going to do the test on low concentrations of ethanol (the 10% you find at your local gas station).
Keep in mind that the normal 10% ethanol available at your local gas station is not as much of an issue. IT'S THE 85% ETHANOL that is in question here. Everything I have read suggests that it is not good for older cars and boats.
Facts do matter and reading the article is a good start.
Keep in mind that the normal 10% ethanol available at your local gas station is not as much of an issue. IT'S THE 85% ETHANOL that is in question here. Everything I have read suggests that it is not good for older cars and boats.
Facts do matter and reading the article is a good start.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
i used to have a Buick GN. Those guys are real excited about E85. It rocks in turbo cars.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/
I'm telling you guys this stuff is going to be a good thing for the hobby. Where can you get fuel that performs like race gas for $2 a gallon?
I don't see any whineing there about ethanol hurting their cars.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/
I'm telling you guys this stuff is going to be a good thing for the hobby. Where can you get fuel that performs like race gas for $2 a gallon?
I don't see any whineing there about ethanol hurting their cars.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,362
Likes: 30
From: Oak Harbor WA
7T1VETTE: I read the article in your link and it says they haven't finished the study and have not reached any conclusions but acknowledge that Ethanol can cause problems in classic car systems. The article also states they are going to do the test on low concentrations of ethanol (the 10% you find at your local gas station).
Keep in mind that the normal 10% ethanol available at your local gas station is not as much of an issue. IT'S THE 85% ETHANOL that is in question here. Everything I have read suggests that it is not good for older cars and boats.
Facts do matter and reading the article is a good start.
Keep in mind that the normal 10% ethanol available at your local gas station is not as much of an issue. IT'S THE 85% ETHANOL that is in question here. Everything I have read suggests that it is not good for older cars and boats.
Facts do matter and reading the article is a good start.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 33
From: Texas-out west
yeah and the moon is made of cheese...you E85 believers are living in fantasy land.. it may burn cleaner, but is worse for cars not specifically made for it so now the govt will force you to mod your car ($$$$$$$) or crush it and the price will increase dramatically once they hook you-remember if you are old enough when they said say crap about desiel fuel and look what has happened, and the kicker is US currently uses mostly corn so food prices go up and less people around the world can be fed, yeah it is good for the world....BS,,,,,,\\\now if we used cellulose like brazil does it might be good in the future
but not now.
but not now.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,892
Likes: 42
Just to add fuel to the fire (pun intended) Brazil is in a position to export millions of gallons of ethanol to the US, which would help the E85 cause considerably. The move is being blocked by a certain group in the US- guess who? The corn growers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 27
From: New Hill NC
yeah and the moon is made of cheese...you E85 believers are living in fantasy land.. it may burn cleaner, but is worse for cars not specifically made for it so now the govt will force you to mod your car ($$$$$$$) or crush it and the price will increase dramatically once they hook you-remember if you are old enough when they said say crap about desiel fuel and look what has happened, and the kicker is US currently uses mostly corn so food prices go up and less people around the world can be fed, yeah it is good for the world....BS,,,,,,\\\now if we used cellulose like brazil does it might be good in the future but not now.
but not now.The govt. needs to get out of our business and let the market seek its own level. The most efficient fuel will emerge.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,905
Likes: 962
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
i used to have a Buick GN. Those guys are real excited about E85. It rocks in turbo cars.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/
I'm telling you guys this stuff is going to be a good thing for the hobby. Where can you get fuel that performs like race gas for $2 a gallon?
I don't see any whineing there about ethanol hurting their cars.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/
I'm telling you guys this stuff is going to be a good thing for the hobby. Where can you get fuel that performs like race gas for $2 a gallon?
I don't see any whineing there about ethanol hurting their cars.
This particular fuel had some small amount of soybean oil in it for fuel pump and injector lubrication. Definitely gave the exhaust an amusing smell.
After running the tank low/empty at the end of a track day, I just filled the tank back up with straight fuel to reduce the alcohol concentration.
Just my experience with high alcohol concentration fuel. YMMV.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Not only food prices go up, everything else goes up too. And, what they don't tell you is the only reason it is cheaper at this moment is that we subsidise the corn producers. It is actually much more expensive to make. Depending on what it is made from, the costs in BTUs of fossil fuels to produce it is more than the BTUs of the Alcohol produced.
The govt. needs to get out of our business and let the market seek its own level. The most efficient fuel will emerge.
The govt. needs to get out of our business and let the market seek its own level. The most efficient fuel will emerge.
You think it's just cooincidence that gas prices have stabilized now that we're threatening to use alternative fuels?
I don't want to be at the mercy of savages with rags on their heads.
I see so much anger about E10 Ethanol blends on both corvette forums and the ls1 forum. It's irrational anger.
What gets me angry is when i think about people with rags on their heads doing serious harm to this country. I'm still angry enough about 9/11 that i'd push the button right now and lay waste to the whole middle east. The fact that alcohol is going to degrade my fuel lines over a period of a few years pales in comparison.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,905
Likes: 962
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
The market will continue to wipsaw and the Saudis will put a strangle-hold on us when it suits their fancy. The function of the goverment is to set long term policy that protects its citizens. And that's what's happening.
You think it's just cooincidence that gas prices have stabilized now that we're threatening to use alternative fuels?
I don't want to be at the mercy of savages with rags on their heads.
I see so much anger about E10 Ethanol blends on both corvette forums and the ls1 forum. It's irrational anger.
What gets me angry is when i think about people with rags on their heads doing serious harm to this country. I'm still angry enough about 9/11 that i'd push the button right now and lay waste to the whole middle east. The fact that alcohol is going to degrade my fuel lines over a period of a few years pales in comparison.
You think it's just cooincidence that gas prices have stabilized now that we're threatening to use alternative fuels?
I don't want to be at the mercy of savages with rags on their heads.
I see so much anger about E10 Ethanol blends on both corvette forums and the ls1 forum. It's irrational anger.
What gets me angry is when i think about people with rags on their heads doing serious harm to this country. I'm still angry enough about 9/11 that i'd push the button right now and lay waste to the whole middle east. The fact that alcohol is going to degrade my fuel lines over a period of a few years pales in comparison.
Long term policy is, we need more domestic oil drilling and more nuclear power. The special interests in government have restricted these two activities for decades. Ethanol is pure government pork and wasteful of the taxpayers' money. Let the market find the most efficient domestic energy supply.
The price of fuel is down because of the worldwide recession. The "ragheads", as you say, are laughing at this whole ethanol silliness we're pursuing.
Drill here. Drill now. Save money!!!!!!!!!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 27
From: New Hill NC
The market will continue to wipsaw and the Saudis will put a strangle-hold on us when it suits their fancy. The function of the goverment is to set long term policy that protects its citizens. And that's what's happening.
You think it's just cooincidence that gas prices have stabilized now that we're threatening to use alternative fuels?
I don't want to be at the mercy of savages with rags on their heads.
I see so much anger about E10 Ethanol blends on both corvette forums and the ls1 forum. It's irrational anger.
What gets me angry is when i think about people with rags on their heads doing serious harm to this country. I'm still angry enough about 9/11 that i'd push the button right now and lay waste to the whole middle east. The fact that alcohol is going to degrade my fuel lines over a period of a few years pales in comparison.
You think it's just cooincidence that gas prices have stabilized now that we're threatening to use alternative fuels?
I don't want to be at the mercy of savages with rags on their heads.
I see so much anger about E10 Ethanol blends on both corvette forums and the ls1 forum. It's irrational anger.
What gets me angry is when i think about people with rags on their heads doing serious harm to this country. I'm still angry enough about 9/11 that i'd push the button right now and lay waste to the whole middle east. The fact that alcohol is going to degrade my fuel lines over a period of a few years pales in comparison.
I think I`ll have a drink of that alcohol now.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 5,202
Likes: 10
From: cincinnati ohio
St. Jude Donor '09
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 16,838
Likes: 341
From: Database Error Indiana
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
but so it seems that the alky does not separate out of the gas as I wondered about....there seems to be NO water separating out of the bottles I have setting....been maybe 3 months now...
so it's been maybe 6 tanks of gas and my car runs fine....
10% tags on all pumps....the water in tank issue must be due to either vandalism OR the local stations still selling water for gas...
at any rate, engine runs fine now, and so TODAY's gasoline in this area seems ok, for now....
I fail to see how alky can affect metal parts....
I would see fuel line hoses being hurt, maybe....
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
NO. Then you'd be whining and bitching that the government is wasting your tax dollars on cold fusion. You'd complain that cold fusion would corrode the pretty chrome bumpers on your car. From what i know about you....you don't accept any kind of change or new ideas at all. Everything scares the crap out of you. It's friggin amazing my head didn't explode on I-90 with that crazy shet in my tank.
I really don't care right now whether its being subsidized or not or whether its a net energy gainer. Most articles i see now say it is. It's that one report written by a college professor in 2005 you naysayers keep pointing to.
I want to try and fill up again in the next few days and keep tweaking things. I guess i'll have to start a new thread since this one has been dumped on so much.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
You do read, dontcha' turdle?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0329132436.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0329132436.htm
read this from the same place. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0808211555.htm
ScienceDaily (Aug. 13, 2007) — As oil becomes scarce, the world needs new transportation fuels. As new fuel options develop we need means of assessing which are most effective at replacing petroleum. So far many scientists have used a measure called 'net energy'.
However, Professor Bruce Dale from Michigan State University claims, "Net energy analysis is simple and has great intuitive appeal, but it is also dead wrong and dangerously misleading -- net energy must be eliminated from our discourse." Dale's perspective is published in the first edition of Biofuels, Bioproducts and Biorefining.
Instead, Dale recommends comparing fuels by assessing how much petroleum fuel each can replace, or by calculating how much CO2 each produces per km driven.
A fuel's 'net energy' is calculated by attempting to assess how much energy a new fuel supplies, and then subtracting the energy supplied by fossil fuels needed to create the new fuel. The calculation is often carried out in a way that leaves grain ethanol with a net energy of -29%, giving the impression that it uses more fossil fuels to produce it that the new fuel supplies. Dale claims that this figure is then used by opponents of biofuels to pour scorn on the new products.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 8,918
Likes: 27
From: New Hill NC
NO. Then you'd be whining and bitching that the government is wasting your tax dollars on cold fusion. You'd complain that cold fusion would corrode the pretty chrome bumpers on your car. From what i know about you....you don't accept any kind of change or new ideas at all. Everything scares the crap out of you. It's friggin amazing my head didn't explode on I-90 with that crazy shet in my tank.
I really don't care right now whether its being subsidized or not or whether its a net energy gainer. Most articles i see now say it is. It's that one report written by a college professor in 2005 you naysayers keep pointing to.
I want to try and fill up again in the next few days and keep tweaking things. I guess i'll have to start a new thread since this one has been dumped on so much.
I really don't care right now whether its being subsidized or not or whether its a net energy gainer. Most articles i see now say it is. It's that one report written by a college professor in 2005 you naysayers keep pointing to.
I want to try and fill up again in the next few days and keep tweaking things. I guess i'll have to start a new thread since this one has been dumped on so much.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 4,101
Likes: 10
From: NorCal
Alcohol is a corrosive. E-85 flex-fuel vehicles use stainless steel in their fuel systems (and exhaust) to solve this. Mild steel gas tanks, fuel lines and exhaust will not hold up long term, but this pales in comparison to the effects on rubber components, which turn rock hard within months, and then subsequently fail, resulting in a carbeque, auto flambe', really big garage fires, etc... But hey, life is about risk and experimentation, 'eh?
Hans
Hans
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 4
From: 2011,2012 ECS CC 10.50 CHAMP Massapequa NY
I just read the links posted where guys have been running it for a few years without any problems. looks like it doesnt seem to harm anything. Who can say they tried it or show where somebody used it and it corroded aluminum, dried out rubber or did some other damage. Back the claims with some proof.