Starter Issue/Question
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
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From: Topsfield MA
Starter Issue/Question
Hello,
I have a rather embarrassing problem with my '78 Vette.
If I run the car for about 30 mins or so, until it is hot, and shut it off, then I try to restart, I just get a little click sound when I turn the key. If I wait for the car to cool down 30-60 mins, it starts right up. I know that the starter is only about an inch away from one of the exhaust pipes... is the starter solenoid getting overheated? Thoughts?
Thanks,
BigBobbyB [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]
I have a rather embarrassing problem with my '78 Vette.
If I run the car for about 30 mins or so, until it is hot, and shut it off, then I try to restart, I just get a little click sound when I turn the key. If I wait for the car to cool down 30-60 mins, it starts right up. I know that the starter is only about an inch away from one of the exhaust pipes... is the starter solenoid getting overheated? Thoughts?
Thanks,
BigBobbyB [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Burlington NC
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
Not the solenoid but the starter itself. As it heats up the coils become loose. Several places sell heat blankets you can wrap the starter in to prevent this from happening. It's staring on my vette as well, not to mention I've had the same problems on Ford Trucks.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Woodforest
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
A good way to check what is happening is to install a starter switch across the positive and control terminal of the selonoid. When it gets hot and won't start, turn your ignition switch on, hit the starter switch. If it starts, the problem is in your security system or neutral safety switch.
I spent a lot of time and money replacing starters, and other parts with the same issue. Turned out to be a neutral safety switch on the transmission that would only act up when it got hot from the transmission.
It could be a heat soak issue, but this is a cheap and easy way to find out.
I spent a lot of time and money replacing starters, and other parts with the same issue. Turned out to be a neutral safety switch on the transmission that would only act up when it got hot from the transmission.
It could be a heat soak issue, but this is a cheap and easy way to find out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Clifton Park NY
Re: Starter Issue/Question (paul79)
I used to have the same problem. The "band-aid" solution was to use a knife or screw driver to short the terminals of the starter, with the ignition on. That produced lots of sparks and scary sound, but after that the car would start immediately. Good, when you're looking like a fool at the gas station, then you show everyone you're an "expert"... :rolleyes: :D
Then I realized the nose of my starter was cracked, and that was a great excuse to get a new Delco mini-starter. No problems ever since...
Check if you have a heat shield, and consider wrapping the starter in one of those blankets that Summit and Jeg's sell.
-Pedro
Then I realized the nose of my starter was cracked, and that was a great excuse to get a new Delco mini-starter. No problems ever since...
Check if you have a heat shield, and consider wrapping the starter in one of those blankets that Summit and Jeg's sell.
-Pedro
Melting Slicks
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From: TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS TEXASTEXASTEXASTEXAS
St. Jude Contributor
Re: Starter Issue/Question (DavidOrr)
Not the solenoid but the starter itself. As it heats up the coils become loose. Several places sell heat blankets you can wrap the starter in to prevent this from happening. It's staring on my vette as well, not to mention I've had the same problems on Ford Trucks.
JB
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Intermediate
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From: Topsfield MA
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
Thanks everyone for your responses. I picked up a GM heat sheild wrap at a local speed shop last night. I will try that and hopefully that will be another challenge behind me.
Bob
Bob
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From: Connecticut, USA
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
A guy I work with used to rebuild starters and we disassembled mine today. I asked him about the heat sink issue and he said it's the soleniod inner sleeve that heats up and expands enough to bind the yoke that engages the bendix drive.
BTW my starter is a rebuilt one with 18k miles on it. The field leads were worn down where previous brushes hit and ground them down. The bendix was worn and the bushings were bad. I'm going to rebuild it rather then buy another unknown rebuilt unit. The starter worked but would sometimes spin and not engage the flywheel ring-gear.
Gary
BTW my starter is a rebuilt one with 18k miles on it. The field leads were worn down where previous brushes hit and ground them down. The bendix was worn and the bushings were bad. I'm going to rebuild it rather then buy another unknown rebuilt unit. The starter worked but would sometimes spin and not engage the flywheel ring-gear.
Gary
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Verdad Gallardo
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From: San Diego CA
Re: Starter Issue/Question (paul79)
It does sound like the old heat soak problem. Very common. This was my solution: a GM high-torque mini-starter with an add-on Moroso heatshield.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,010
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From: Moon Twp. PA USA
Re: Starter Issue/Question (gtr1999)
A guy I work with used to rebuild starters and we disassembled mine today. I asked him about the heat sink issue and he said it's the soleniod inner sleeve that heats up and expands enough to bind the yoke that engages the bendix drive.
BTW my starter is a rebuilt one with 18k miles on it. The field leads were worn down where previous brushes hit and ground them down. The bendix was worn and the bushings were bad. I'm going to rebuild it rather then buy another unknown rebuilt unit. The starter worked but would sometimes spin and not engage the flywheel ring-gear.
Gary
BTW my starter is a rebuilt one with 18k miles on it. The field leads were worn down where previous brushes hit and ground them down. The bendix was worn and the bushings were bad. I'm going to rebuild it rather then buy another unknown rebuilt unit. The starter worked but would sometimes spin and not engage the flywheel ring-gear.
Gary
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Starter Issue/Question (glen242)
If the starter spins, as evidenced by a loud motor sound, but not engaging, just let it spin for a few seconds, 9 times out of ten it will finally engage...and it's allways the 'bendix spring' or starter clutch that's bad...
that thing with the fork around it, and the gear on it's tip....
amazing all the stories that starters seem to generate, and the amount of mis information out there on that topic, bad as alternators...seems automotive electricals generate more questions than anything else for such a simple system.....
not surprising really, because you have to learn to trust a Digital Volt Meter, and not rely on your eyes directly to look at say a broken bolt...
and also learn to deal with bad/corroded/poot/loose,unsoldered, broken wires/connectors,connections, etc.....that seems to be about 90% of automotive electrical troubles....other than dead battery or bad alternator that is....
GENE
that thing with the fork around it, and the gear on it's tip....
amazing all the stories that starters seem to generate, and the amount of mis information out there on that topic, bad as alternators...seems automotive electricals generate more questions than anything else for such a simple system.....
not surprising really, because you have to learn to trust a Digital Volt Meter, and not rely on your eyes directly to look at say a broken bolt...
and also learn to deal with bad/corroded/poot/loose,unsoldered, broken wires/connectors,connections, etc.....that seems to be about 90% of automotive electrical troubles....other than dead battery or bad alternator that is....
GENE
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From: Lenoir City Tennessee
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Re: Starter Issue/Question (mrvette)
My car would do the same thing. I would leave my house and go down and get gas and wind up having to set there for 30 minutes. I wound up changing the starter solenoid. It is an easy job and I think you should change yours while you are putting the heat shield on yours. Just make sure you make some notes about where every thing connects and do not overtighten the electrical connection and break it. BTW the solenoid twists out of the starter once everything is loosend up.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
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From: Topsfield MA
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
Hey Folks,
I put on the heat insulating blanket, but I'm still having the same issue. Even after letting the car cool for almost an hour, it wouldn't start. I have purchased a new starter solenoid and will see if that will cure it.
A couple more facts: 1) When I orig got the car, it hadn't been run for about 14 years, I finally got the engine manually freed-up and initially when I would turn it over with the starter, I would turn it about 10 times, stop and do it again. After doing this about 3 or 4 times, I would just get a click sound....and would have to wait about 30 mins or so to try it again (note the battery is new). 2) Last night after letting the car cool for about 45 mins, it still wouldn't start, so I thought I'd try putting the charger on the battery, just for grins, after I did that, the car started right up!! Coincidence? Thoughts?
Thanks, BigBobbyB
I put on the heat insulating blanket, but I'm still having the same issue. Even after letting the car cool for almost an hour, it wouldn't start. I have purchased a new starter solenoid and will see if that will cure it.
A couple more facts: 1) When I orig got the car, it hadn't been run for about 14 years, I finally got the engine manually freed-up and initially when I would turn it over with the starter, I would turn it about 10 times, stop and do it again. After doing this about 3 or 4 times, I would just get a click sound....and would have to wait about 30 mins or so to try it again (note the battery is new). 2) Last night after letting the car cool for about 45 mins, it still wouldn't start, so I thought I'd try putting the charger on the battery, just for grins, after I did that, the car started right up!! Coincidence? Thoughts?
Thanks, BigBobbyB
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2002
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From: Topsfield MA
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
Hi,
I took the starter out of the car and put a new solenoid on it. I cleaned all the terminals & connectors with a small wire-brush wheel on a dremel tool and I wrapped the starter/solenoid with an insulating blanket. Tested the starter, worked fine. I took the car for a 45 min ride to heat it up, I parked it, turned it off, then tried to restart....just a click....
Could the starter be damaged due to the heat it has been taking over the years? Should I just replace it?
Getting a little frustrated...(but still love the car!!)
Thoughts?
I took the starter out of the car and put a new solenoid on it. I cleaned all the terminals & connectors with a small wire-brush wheel on a dremel tool and I wrapped the starter/solenoid with an insulating blanket. Tested the starter, worked fine. I took the car for a 45 min ride to heat it up, I parked it, turned it off, then tried to restart....just a click....
Could the starter be damaged due to the heat it has been taking over the years? Should I just replace it?
Getting a little frustrated...(but still love the car!!)
Thoughts?
Pro
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 511
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From: Carmel IN
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
This topic is near and dear to me too. My problem (acts like a dead battery) is the same only isn't so much when it's hot. Mine does it whenever and wherever - starts great for several days and suddenly acts dead. Moving the car a little solves sometimes - other times just touch with jumper cables then it starts fine for several more days - maybe.
I've pulled the starter twice, bench tested and reinstalled, cleaned all connection but it still happens now and then. I'm thinking neutral safety switch - but how do you access the switch? Please don't tell me to pull the console! I'd rather bypass it - anyone know the bypass trick?
I've pulled the starter twice, bench tested and reinstalled, cleaned all connection but it still happens now and then. I'm thinking neutral safety switch - but how do you access the switch? Please don't tell me to pull the console! I'd rather bypass it - anyone know the bypass trick?
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St. Jude Donor '10
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
Hey Bob,
I just had to replace my starter this past weekend. My symptoms were similiar to yours, except that, at first, the starter sounded like it was dragging in a big way. After driving around for about 30 mins or so, I got home and turned it off, and immediately tried to restart. Nothing. Zip. Not even a click.
Neighbor got a voltmeter and checked it out, ( thought I might have a short somewhere)
Decided a new starter was in order, went to Auto Zone, and got a new one for $31.
So far, problem solved. The one I took off was in fact, original equipment.
Heat sheild was shot, so an insulating blanket is in order to prevent damage from headers.
Take care.......Blademaker
:cheers:
I just had to replace my starter this past weekend. My symptoms were similiar to yours, except that, at first, the starter sounded like it was dragging in a big way. After driving around for about 30 mins or so, I got home and turned it off, and immediately tried to restart. Nothing. Zip. Not even a click.
Neighbor got a voltmeter and checked it out, ( thought I might have a short somewhere)
Decided a new starter was in order, went to Auto Zone, and got a new one for $31.
So far, problem solved. The one I took off was in fact, original equipment.
Heat sheild was shot, so an insulating blanket is in order to prevent damage from headers.
Take care.......Blademaker
:cheers:
Instructor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 139
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From: So. Miami
Re: Starter Issue/Question (paul79)
It does sound like the old heat soak problem. Very common. This was my solution: a GM high-torque mini-starter with an add-on Moroso heatshield.
Where did you purchase your mini-starter????
I was told that one from a late modelChevy truck could be used. Is it the same thing??
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From: Calif.
Re: Starter Issue/Question (bigbobbyb)
What you need to replace is the starter solenoid spring. You need a shorter (weaker) one. A buddy of mine that puts SBCs in ski boats put me wise to this fix. I have the part number you need at home somewhere. It's less than $10 at the Chevy/GMC dealer and it's been a permanent fix for quite a few engines. WTH--do the cheap stuff first, right?
[EDIT] Ask the dealer for Delco P/N 1958679. The caveat is that you may already have this solenoid spring installed if you have recently purchased a new starter.
[Modified by The Dude, 5:53 PM 5/21/2002]
[EDIT] Ask the dealer for Delco P/N 1958679. The caveat is that you may already have this solenoid spring installed if you have recently purchased a new starter.
[Modified by The Dude, 5:53 PM 5/21/2002]
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Ontario
Re: Starter Issue/Question (blademaker)
I purchased the mini-starter from a local Chevrolet dealer. Below you will see the part number. As to mods from other vehicles, I have heard of them but others can advise.
