Hi all,

I will be soon pulling my engine to have it rebuilt. I have some questions but also looking for the advice of those who have done this a number of times. I am looking for your help to learn the particular details of what I should do, not do and what to look out for that I may not be smart enough to ask in a question. Your insight will be most appreciated!!

The engine is all stock on the outside and numbers match original including the Rochester carb ALT AC 4 speed m21/22 trans.

I plan to R&R the trans and engine as one assembly.
I plan to remove: radiator and shroud, alternator, starter

Q1. how much height (ceiling) clearance will I need in my garage to do this roughly? I plan to have the car in the center of my "standard double bay garage".

Q2. Not wanting to open the AC where can I lay it while extracting the motror?

Q3. Do I need to take off the exhaust manifolds?

Q4. What and where are the best grab points for the hoist to mount to the engine? I see two threaded holes in the front on the heads that look like a nice front attach. But I also understand that I want a diagonal attachment with a load leveler to help tilt the engine out with the trans.

Q5. 1 ton lift ok or do I need a 2 ton? I calculated the lift weight to be roughly 454(700lbs) + Fly-wheel(20lbs) +M21(70lbs) = ~800lbs

Q6. Whats the best way to remove the shifter from the frame/trans.

I am sure I missed a thing or tow here

Thanks in advance for your insight and comments

 

You may be able to unbolt the AC compressor from the engine and wire it to the inner fender somehow. Might have to remove the coolant overflow tank to tuck it aside. And be careful. It's not all that difficult to break the tubes where they come out of the compressor. I found that out the hard way many years ago. As for the rating of the hoist, the max capacity of an engine hoist is calculated when the lift arm is shortest. If you extend the arm, the capacity decreases.

 

Good tidbits thank you. Guess I will have to estimate the lever arm reach I will need and see what the ratings are at that point. I think I need the two ton version at a min.

Will watch out for the AC compressor connections. I may just break down and remove the system but will need to see if I can get some one to recover the freon for me first.

 

Pulling the radiator and shroud will get most of the room you need. Next problem is the A/C condenser- mounted to the front of the core support. The tubes to it are pretty easy to bend too. I'd think about pulling the core support too- just for that extra 10" of room you pick up.
In all honesty, with the weight of a BB and trans, the length of it, coupled with the fact that most cherry pickers don't have the reach to get over the nose of a Vette, I'd be a little shy about pulling the engine trans together. Just me. I know lots of guys do that with no problems at all. Again, just me.
The exhaust manifolds can stay on, but that's just more weight to lift.
The shifter will unbolt from the crossmember (factory shifter) and the linkage rods come off the trans.
With a load leveler you can just bolt the chains to each corner- front and back of each head.
Going from memory, a lift rate at 2 tons loses 1/2 of that capacity at half extension of the lift arm.
I've pulled more than one from a Vette- I've always found it easier to go in from the side- remove the front tire on one side, put a stand under the frame at the front of the door on that side and get it that way.

 

I second coming in from the side. Most engine hoist do not have enough extension to do it from the front.

I'd also agree with the advice to separate engine from tranny. It will make your life much easier and lower your stress level.

I use the accessory bolt holes on the ends of the heads. Each corner has at least one hole.

 

Thanks Tim and Zwede,

I was wondering if separating the trans is difficult since I understand it needs to be rotated to separate? Will it disengage without rotation? I know the engine would be a lot easier to get out without the trans trialing it but was wondering how difficult it is to separate due to the rotation.

 

Removing without transmission over the nose. Radiator core support still in car. Lifting bracket and old hoist.



Installing with transmission over the side. Radiator core support out of car. Leveling bar and new hoist. Front clip supported, front tire removed, car on ramps creating an incline.

 

Hi 71,
If you look at FR's last picture you'll see that the engine hoist arm has capacity limits stenciled at each extension point.
Look for these on your new hoist and you should get some idea of how far you can reach over the front fenders to safely lift the engine.
Originally all engines had lift brackets installed on them. One in the front left corner of the intake manifold, and one at the rear of the right side head. Any chance you still have those?
Good Luck!
Regards,
Alan

 

The trans pulls straight out. The rotation is needed after the engine/trans split. The crossmember, being fixed, won't allow the trans to drop, and has to be rotated to move to the rear far enough to get the input shaft clear of the bellhousing.
You can remove the bolts, place a jack under the trans and pull the engine forward and leave the trans with no problem.

 

Just did this on my '69 L-71. Took engine and tranny (Keisler TKO 500) out as unit. Reason used removing both, not so much as an issue on removal, but I want to re-install both as a unit. I have a needle bearing in the rear of the crank and am afraid of buggering it up trying to stab in the tranny snout. I used engine leveler, attached to two bolts at front and two at rear (I found bolt holes are of different sizes, left to right, but no problem). Get better balance with 4 bolts. I second the suggestion to remove the radiator support while you are at it. Don't know if you have enough room with tranny attached by just removing radiator.

If you have height issue with garage ceiling or lift height, I have removed the wheels and put car on those wheel dolly thingys to lower the car. I used a chain fall from my reinforced ceiling joists, so not much of a height issue with engine removal, unless I am removing whole body.

Hope to have my Brodix heads and roller cam soon.

Have fun. Ralph.

 

Thanks for the inputs so far guys. The pictures are worth a 1000 words!


Tim,
Not sure I understand the separation and rotation part of the trans to the engine. Why and how much rotation is needed after the split?

Ralph,
your rationale was exactly why I wanted to at least install the engine as a combo. I wanted the mating to be right and was also concerned about the pilot bearings. Have had issues there in the past so I am speaking from experience. I suppose I can pick the the engine first then remove the trans but wondering in the end if that really is easier. I am concerned about the type of lift I will need for the reach and limited space I have and ceiling clearance.

Alan,
Yup got it I see the specs on the crane and the corresponding reach. I know the lift points you were referring to. I looked for those a while back and never seen them on my engine. Being 40 yeas old not they were probably removed. I do have clean threaded holes for grade 8 bolts on the heads so that should be a clean way to attach.

Faster Rat
Yes the pictures are great. My #1 concern now is a sloped drive way and limited height in my garage. The engine combo with trans requires quite a bit of ceiling clearance that I don't have. This might be a show stopper for me..

 

What is your ceiling height? The photos with the install of engine/tranny combo don't show the crane upper point that high. As I indicated, you can lower the car somewhat by removing the wheels.

Ralph

 

IF you pull the trans by itself, you have to remove the rear mount and as you pull the trans back, it has to rotate in the tunnel so it will go back far enough to clear the input shaft from the bellhousing. That's the rotation part. And it's still tight. My 69, I had lifted the rear of the engine to remove the rear trans mount, and then had to lower the engine way more than level to get the input to clear the bellhousing.
In you case, you won't have to worry about rotating the trans when you pull the engine forward. Just leave the rear mount bolted in and support the trans. As the engine moves forward, it'll pull off the trans and leave it setting there.

 

Ralph,

Ceiling height is 7.5 ft with the garage door up and 8 with it down. Will depend it I pick it from the driver side or front.

Removing the wheels and lowering the car will prevent me from having access during the engine removal phase. Maybe that's OK IF i get everything clear first and have no engine to trans disengagement issues. It does make me feel a little limited during the process. Also where do you support the car from (even if using castors)?


Tim,

Understood. Rotation is only for clearance for trans only removal with engine in. Its NOT needed to disengage the engine to trans.

 

If you pull the tail shaft from transmission (drain gear oil first) the tranny will move back and clear the bellhousing with very little rotation.I just did this on my 69'. some say to lower the rear of engine but I just supported mine in present location. Go luck

 

IF you hook the hoist close to the intake, you should have plenty of room even with your limited ceiling height. I've done a couple of small block cars in my basement garage with less overhead height than you have. I've jacked the car up, on stands, went underneath and unhooked everything that could possibly get in the way or be a problem, lowered the stands and removed a tire, set the car back on lower stands at the front, just where the frame turns inboard behind the front wheels, then pulled the engine.

 

I've pulled engines (SBs & BBs) from C3's in under 2hrs this way, without help, and no need to pull the rad.

 

Hi guys well in my quest to pull the engine I made significant progress in pulling the radiator & shroud & support, starter, carb, dist, fan & pulleys AC condenser and AC compressor and lots more.

Plan to pull only the engine as the trans was recently rebuilt and does not need to come out.

Questions:
1. Whats the best split point for the engine/trans? The 4 bolts from the manual trans to the bell housing or the 6? bolts from the bell housing to the engine? Seems to me 4 bolts is much easier from the trans to the bell housing. how do I get access to the all the bolts?

2. If I pick it from the side with a cheery picker and the car is on jack stands how can I move the engine forward to disengage the engine from the trans?

 

If you're separating the trans from the engine anyway, there's really no need to pull the radiator or AC condenser.

I always remove the transmission first, next the bell (clutch assembly optional), and then pulling the engine is very straightfoward. That said, my shark does have a removable trans x-member. Never considered the bell (or scattershield, in my case) bolts all that difficult.


.

 

From the side is the way to go. Put your jack stands way forward on the frame where the sway bar bolts on. Get the car just high enough so your hoist legs will clear the rotor.

I also have swivel wheels on all four corners of my hoist. I just put a BB in my 69 a few weeks ago. My garage at home where I like to work only has 8 foot ceilings.