Bee Jay's VBP A Arm install
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 573
From: Lompoc, CA. Santa Barbara County
I sat down and studied these VB&P arms and the C3 geometry and I believe I have come up with a fix that will also help handling.
I am going to make new cross shafts out of 7075 aluminum (I have plenty of it already) with a different mounting style for the bushings. They will be firmly supported inside and out. I will lower the arms pivot point and in doing so will lower the roll center and change the camber curve in much the same way a longer ball joint would do. I have to trig it out first, but I think this is the way to go.
Triangulating the arms would require stripping the powder coat and redoing it. I can machine these up myself with virtually no cost involved. I should be able to do it rather quickly after I make up my blueprints.
Suspension and steering guys, what do you think?
I am going to make new cross shafts out of 7075 aluminum (I have plenty of it already) with a different mounting style for the bushings. They will be firmly supported inside and out. I will lower the arms pivot point and in doing so will lower the roll center and change the camber curve in much the same way a longer ball joint would do. I have to trig it out first, but I think this is the way to go.
Triangulating the arms would require stripping the powder coat and redoing it. I can machine these up myself with virtually no cost involved. I should be able to do it rather quickly after I make up my blueprints.
Suspension and steering guys, what do you think?
Bee Jay
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
While your at it, here is some more bad news to consider. My alignment specialist just called. He can't get anything less than -1.5 degrees of camber. It's a combo of my lowered ride height and these A-Arms. The adjustable CPPs are looking better and better. -1.5 degrees of camber is what racers use, but they trailer their cars to the track. I'm driving this on the street. How bad will my tread wear be?
Bee Jay
Bee Jay
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 955
Likes: 50
From: Jersey Shore
While your at it, here is some more bad news to consider. My alignment specialist just called. He can't get anything less than -1.5 degrees of camber. It's a combo of my lowered ride height and these A-Arms. The adjustable CPPs are looking better and better. -1.5 degrees of camber is what racers use, but they trailer their cars to the track. I'm driving this on the street. How bad will my tread wear be?
Bee Jay
Bee Jay
Did your alignment guy say anything about the amount of castor he was able to get out of the arms?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 573
From: Lompoc, CA. Santa Barbara County
Not great, but not horrible either... Another benefit of the SPC arms is that with the more aggressive camber curve, you can run less static camber than normal, and still end up with the same camber under cornering. (dynamic camber? not sure what to call that)
Did your alignment guy say anything about the amount of castor he was able to get out of the arms?
Did your alignment guy say anything about the amount of castor he was able to get out of the arms?
Camber left -1.7 degrees, Camber right -1.5 degrees
Total toe -.01 degrees
Drives straight as an arrow, I haven't tried handling trials yet.
Last edited by Bee Jay; May 24, 2013 at 12:28 AM.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,961
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From: Lompoc, CA. Santa Barbara County
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
That aluminum piece is probably offset the same
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Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: Calgary Alberta
I'm am going to install my VBP upper A-arms soon as well. I have the a-arms with the steel shafts instead of aluminum. I purchased the upper and lower ball joints from VBP as well so I am hoping they will last a while before I need to replace them with MOOG balljoints.
I only expect to put less than a 1000 miles a year on the car and I won't be racing or tracking the car on a regular basis so hopefully these a-arms and ball joints will hold together. I'd rather not replace the new VBP ball joints with MOOG until I have to. If the VBP A-arms prove to be faulty then I will replace them with the SPC units as suggested.
I had read previously in this forum that the VBP ball joint problem was experienced years ago and am hoping that the VBP ball joints I have won't have the same problems. Well I suppose only time will tell.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,666
Likes: 289
From: Spring Park MN
BeeJay,
The problem with attaining the desired alignment specs is more than likely your frame. These frames tend to droop inward towards each other at the upper arm mount (tower). Measure between them. The stock measurement should be 26 3/8". If the measurement is a lot shorter, a frame shop can bring that back. If you have the nerve to try, which from what you have done to your car so far, I would say you do, you can CAREFULLY spread the towers with a porta-power. Your spreader bar will keep them from drooping again.
Another easier fix is to flip over your aluminum cross shafts. They are offset. You will gain a tone of adjustment this way.
The problem with attaining the desired alignment specs is more than likely your frame. These frames tend to droop inward towards each other at the upper arm mount (tower). Measure between them. The stock measurement should be 26 3/8". If the measurement is a lot shorter, a frame shop can bring that back. If you have the nerve to try, which from what you have done to your car so far, I would say you do, you can CAREFULLY spread the towers with a porta-power. Your spreader bar will keep them from drooping again.
Another easier fix is to flip over your aluminum cross shafts. They are offset. You will gain a tone of adjustment this way.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 573
From: Lompoc, CA. Santa Barbara County
Nice job Bee Jay,
I'm am going to install my VBP upper A-arms soon as well. I have the a-arms with the steel shafts instead of aluminum. I purchased the upper and lower ball joints from VBP as well so I am hoping they will last a while before I need to replace them with MOOG balljoints.
I only expect to put less than a 1000 miles a year on the car and I won't be racing or tracking the car on a regular basis so hopefully these a-arms and ball joints will hold together. I'd rather not replace the new VBP ball joints with MOOG until I have to. If the VBP A-arms prove to be faulty then I will replace them with the SPC units as suggested.
I had read previously in this forum that the VBP ball joint problem was experienced years ago and am hoping that the VBP ball joints I have won't have the same problems. Well I suppose only time will tell.
I'm am going to install my VBP upper A-arms soon as well. I have the a-arms with the steel shafts instead of aluminum. I purchased the upper and lower ball joints from VBP as well so I am hoping they will last a while before I need to replace them with MOOG balljoints.
I only expect to put less than a 1000 miles a year on the car and I won't be racing or tracking the car on a regular basis so hopefully these a-arms and ball joints will hold together. I'd rather not replace the new VBP ball joints with MOOG until I have to. If the VBP A-arms prove to be faulty then I will replace them with the SPC units as suggested.
I had read previously in this forum that the VBP ball joint problem was experienced years ago and am hoping that the VBP ball joints I have won't have the same problems. Well I suppose only time will tell.
Bee Jay
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 573
From: Lompoc, CA. Santa Barbara County
BeeJay,
The problem with attaining the desired alignment specs is more than likely your frame. These frames tend to droop inward towards each other at the upper arm mount (tower). Measure between them. The stock measurement should be 26 3/8". If the measurement is a lot shorter, a frame shop can bring that back. If you have the nerve to try, which from what you have done to your car so far, I would say you do, you can CAREFULLY spread the towers with a porta-power. Your spreader bar will keep them from drooping again.
Another easier fix is to flip over your aluminum cross shafts. They are offset. You will gain a tone of adjustment this way.
The problem with attaining the desired alignment specs is more than likely your frame. These frames tend to droop inward towards each other at the upper arm mount (tower). Measure between them. The stock measurement should be 26 3/8". If the measurement is a lot shorter, a frame shop can bring that back. If you have the nerve to try, which from what you have done to your car so far, I would say you do, you can CAREFULLY spread the towers with a porta-power. Your spreader bar will keep them from drooping again.
Another easier fix is to flip over your aluminum cross shafts. They are offset. You will gain a tone of adjustment this way.
Bee Jay
Race Director
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,956
Likes: 409
From: California
Bee Jay, have you ever lifted your vett from just the center under the engine? via the crossover? your, or at least mine, shocke toreres will spread apart.. at this time you could adjust your spreader bar very easly, and this may give you what you are looking for..
btw, Chris, my middle son , you meet him a few times, put in some new LED headlights in his jeep... they are all plastic and give amazing ligh... and weigh at about a pound less each light... know its not a lot, but there is 4 pounds right there!!!!
good luck brother! p:-)
btw, Chris, my middle son , you meet him a few times, put in some new LED headlights in his jeep... they are all plastic and give amazing ligh... and weigh at about a pound less each light... know its not a lot, but there is 4 pounds right there!!!!
good luck brother! p:-)
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Guinness Its whats for B'fast JAWGA
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http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...-question.html
Pro
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Stockholm Sweden
I have now tested my control arms on the track and so far so good I must say.
My thread: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-g...post1584007993
Pro
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 523
Likes: 4
From: Calgary Alberta
The fix was to replace them with Moog ball joints. I'm not 100% sure that the problem still existed when I purchased my VBP A-arms and thus am prepared to change them to the Moog units if the VBP units wear out.
I believe there is a mention of the ball joint problem earlier in this post as well. My feelings are similar to yours, I will deal with the ball joint problem if it arises. I do most of the actual work on my car, so therefore changing a set of upper and lower ball joints is not a big job for me in the grand scheme of things.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,961
Likes: 573
From: Lompoc, CA. Santa Barbara County
I've posted on a prior topic with these but, many of the 64-72 A-body (Chevelle) guys are tracking these with sticky tires. If they're fine on a 4,000lbs Chevelle, then a Corvette should be no problem. The Chevelle guys get them from SCandC.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...-question.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...-question.html
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Jay
I don't understand what Paul said about running 1.5 neg. camber When ever I drove with more than. Anything more than .52 with zero toe or . now .03 toe in I always had excessive inside ware. I drove down to your house and turned my front tires into treadless slicks. But those were those Kumho dot tires that they used for racing They were treadles evenly across the face when I got home and I was having severe push through the turns over the mountains on I-80 on the way home.
Lot's of camber means slop in the bushings..... , wheel vertical travel. and lack of spring/sway. I also have had the bump steer kit that keeps from having camber change
I setup my 295 front slicks with a temp gun and they only needed .46 neg camber
I don't understand what Paul said about running 1.5 neg. camber When ever I drove with more than. Anything more than .52 with zero toe or . now .03 toe in I always had excessive inside ware. I drove down to your house and turned my front tires into treadless slicks. But those were those Kumho dot tires that they used for racing They were treadles evenly across the face when I got home and I was having severe push through the turns over the mountains on I-80 on the way home.
Lot's of camber means slop in the bushings..... , wheel vertical travel. and lack of spring/sway. I also have had the bump steer kit that keeps from having camber change
I setup my 295 front slicks with a temp gun and they only needed .46 neg camber
Pro
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 698
Likes: 8
From: Stockholm Sweden
I would say that ANY control arm with a better and more solid construction is stronger then the VBP:s.
