#4 body mount 2" gap???
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2002
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#4 body mount 2" gap???
Hey guys,
Sorry for the second post about the body drop this weekend but I think I have all the mounts figured out but the #4 mount has about a 2" gap between the body and frame mount. #2 and #3 have no shims, #1 has three shims, and the steering column and box line up perfectly. Any thoughts on what is wrong with #4??? Has anyone seen this???
I did have the #4 frame mount replaced but it looks like it is in the correct location???
If no one has any other thoughts I guess I will have a spacer made and just live with it.
Thanks - Scott
Sorry for the second post about the body drop this weekend but I think I have all the mounts figured out but the #4 mount has about a 2" gap between the body and frame mount. #2 and #3 have no shims, #1 has three shims, and the steering column and box line up perfectly. Any thoughts on what is wrong with #4??? Has anyone seen this???
I did have the #4 frame mount replaced but it looks like it is in the correct location???
If no one has any other thoughts I guess I will have a spacer made and just live with it.
Thanks - Scott
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,274
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Scott,
In your picture it looks a bit like the body is being held up above the mount surface compared to the one in this picture.
Note the relationship of the body reinforcement to the top of the frame...it's slightly below the top of the frame rail.
Regards,
Alan
In your picture it looks a bit like the body is being held up above the mount surface compared to the one in this picture.
Note the relationship of the body reinforcement to the top of the frame...it's slightly below the top of the frame rail.
Regards,
Alan
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 802
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I would investigate why the #4 is so high. There has got to be something else that is off. If you make a spacer and essentially ignore it, you may be in for a big surprise down the road.
Does the body sit level when compared to the ground?
Does the body sit level when compared to the ground?
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Alan, thanks for the reply, the picture is helpful.
Steve, the body does sit level to the ground, and I agree, i need to figure out why this is this way before it hits the road.
2 and 3 are down and good, the door gap is good, actually great! If I pull the body down to the 4 mount the doors wouldn't work, the gaps would be huge.
As it is the fuel filler is also weird. Gap to the tank it way off.
Yarg! I just can't figure out what could have happened to this car to be so far off.
Thanks - Scott
Steve, the body does sit level to the ground, and I agree, i need to figure out why this is this way before it hits the road.
2 and 3 are down and good, the door gap is good, actually great! If I pull the body down to the 4 mount the doors wouldn't work, the gaps would be huge.
As it is the fuel filler is also weird. Gap to the tank it way off.
Yarg! I just can't figure out what could have happened to this car to be so far off.
Thanks - Scott
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: coon rapids mn
are you doing this body remount with solid alum bushings ?you have a fiber glass body ,molded old school way .you have a old frame welded old school way .there was no CAD ,you will have irregularities.
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Hey Guys,
Thanks again for the input. I haven't changed the frame except for cutting the #4 frame mounts off and having new ones welded on. They look like they are in the right spot. I am with you though, to me it seems the frame would have to be the culprit but I can't imagine it being bent symmetricly down an inch.
I am not using aluminum mounts but I am using prothane poly mounts. Do poly mounts change the body/frame height?
My dad and I are headed out to the garage to take a few measurements and try to tighten down #2 and #3 to make sure I squished the mounts sufficiently.
I looked a little more at the pictures before the body lift and that whole rear section had collapsed as 3 and 4 were gone. I'd say then the body could be out of whack but the doors fit fine when shimmed???
I'll update in a few hours after some more research.
Thanks again!
Scott
Thanks again for the input. I haven't changed the frame except for cutting the #4 frame mounts off and having new ones welded on. They look like they are in the right spot. I am with you though, to me it seems the frame would have to be the culprit but I can't imagine it being bent symmetricly down an inch.
I am not using aluminum mounts but I am using prothane poly mounts. Do poly mounts change the body/frame height?
My dad and I are headed out to the garage to take a few measurements and try to tighten down #2 and #3 to make sure I squished the mounts sufficiently.
I looked a little more at the pictures before the body lift and that whole rear section had collapsed as 3 and 4 were gone. I'd say then the body could be out of whack but the doors fit fine when shimmed???
I'll update in a few hours after some more research.
Thanks again!
Scott
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Update and question.
After this mornings investigation I think that the body is sitting up too high on the 2 and 3 mounts. Here is why. I put a rocker channel insert into both sides as there was some rust and I wanted to reinforce that section. That added maybe 1/8 inch. Then I used poly bushings and a 1/8 inch washer per instructions. I am not really able to compress the poly bushings so I would guess that I am 1" above the cage nut. I pulled them down a little more this morning and got another 1/8" back in the rear.
Seems too high?
Anyone know how much distance there is between the cage nut at 2 or 3 and the rocker channel?
Should I cut my poly bushings down? Go with rubber? Leave it as is and just put a 1" spacer in the rear?
Thoughts? And Thanks!
Scott
After this mornings investigation I think that the body is sitting up too high on the 2 and 3 mounts. Here is why. I put a rocker channel insert into both sides as there was some rust and I wanted to reinforce that section. That added maybe 1/8 inch. Then I used poly bushings and a 1/8 inch washer per instructions. I am not really able to compress the poly bushings so I would guess that I am 1" above the cage nut. I pulled them down a little more this morning and got another 1/8" back in the rear.
Seems too high?
Anyone know how much distance there is between the cage nut at 2 or 3 and the rocker channel?
Should I cut my poly bushings down? Go with rubber? Leave it as is and just put a 1" spacer in the rear?
Thoughts? And Thanks!
Scott
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 971
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From: Middlesex NJ
What year car is this?
How do your upper shock mount bolts look? Are they dug into the cubbie compartments on either side of the car?
I've seen the upper shock mount bolts put in wrong or be too long and they hang up the body when it goes back on.
I put rocker channel inserts and the center section in on my car and I simply eliminated 1/8" of shims. My 69 uses aluminum pucks so thats what I put back in my car.
How do your upper shock mount bolts look? Are they dug into the cubbie compartments on either side of the car?
I've seen the upper shock mount bolts put in wrong or be too long and they hang up the body when it goes back on.
I put rocker channel inserts and the center section in on my car and I simply eliminated 1/8" of shims. My 69 uses aluminum pucks so thats what I put back in my car.
Thread Starter
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The car is a 73 convertible.
Thanks for the suggestion on the upper shock mount bolts. I will check them as soon as I get back out to the garage.
Thanks for the heads up on the rocker channel. Good to hear that didn't cause you problems. I did the same, used the poly bushings without any shims on 2 and 3.
Thanks and I'll let you know about the shock mounts!
Thanks for the suggestion on the upper shock mount bolts. I will check them as soon as I get back out to the garage.
Thanks for the heads up on the rocker channel. Good to hear that didn't cause you problems. I did the same, used the poly bushings without any shims on 2 and 3.
Thanks and I'll let you know about the shock mounts!
Thread Starter
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I have had the vette for about 2 years. The good is I got a great deal on it from the original owner. The bad is that the owners husband passed a few years prior and the car was half disassembled and she didn't give me much history.
I will say that during the body work it appeared it had been hit in the front driver side and rear passenger side. It was just superficial cracks though???
Hmmmmmm
I will say that during the body work it appeared it had been hit in the front driver side and rear passenger side. It was just superficial cracks though???
Hmmmmmm
Thread Starter
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I dont know if anyone is reading this anymore but is it possiable that I need to shim from the core support back to bring the body into alignment? Pivioting about #3?
Basically I have been trying to close the door gap by raising the rear. I have been reading here for a couple of days now in my spare time and it never occured to me to lift the nose.
I'll try it this weekend...
Thanks - Scott
Basically I have been trying to close the door gap by raising the rear. I have been reading here for a couple of days now in my spare time and it never occured to me to lift the nose.
I'll try it this weekend...
Thanks - Scott
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Where it's always hot as Hell-South Louisiana.
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
What kind of gap did you have before you changed the mounts ??? ?
Looks to me like you have something stuck on top of the gas tank not allowing the rear of the car to seat down properly.
Are both #4 mounts the same gap ?
Looks to me like you have something stuck on top of the gas tank not allowing the rear of the car to seat down properly.
Are both #4 mounts the same gap ?
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,274
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Scott,
You asked about the distance from the cage nut to the rocker channel at #2 and #3.
It's very close. The cage/body mount (above the frame rail) that the rocker channel sits on is just a little taller than the thickness of the nut.
The distance from the top of the body mount to the rocker channel can be as small as 3/8" (the thickness of the puck used from 68-72) plus a couple of 1/16"s more for the shims used.
The distance would be slightly greater in 73 because of the rubber mount. I BELIEVE the mounts were lowered slightly on the frame to compensate for the thicker cushion.
Regards,
Alan
You can just see the #2 and #3 mount height here.
You asked about the distance from the cage nut to the rocker channel at #2 and #3.
It's very close. The cage/body mount (above the frame rail) that the rocker channel sits on is just a little taller than the thickness of the nut.
The distance from the top of the body mount to the rocker channel can be as small as 3/8" (the thickness of the puck used from 68-72) plus a couple of 1/16"s more for the shims used.
The distance would be slightly greater in 73 because of the rubber mount. I BELIEVE the mounts were lowered slightly on the frame to compensate for the thicker cushion.
Regards,
Alan
You can just see the #2 and #3 mount height here.
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Thanks for the reply's guys...
I have some pictures of the mounts before I took the body off and it looks like it sits properly on the frame. The rear section without shims would be held in place by the door strikers. The gap would open at the top of the door until the strikers catch and the doors wont (or shouldnt) open. That's why I have the washers in there for spacers. My thought was that I need to raise the front some to help close that gap and then the rear would not need so many shims/spacers?
Before body lift:
After (sorry for the dark photo but the trailing arm bolt is a good indicator):
After looking at the pictures from Alan (Thanks!) I am sure that #2 and #3 are sittng on the poly mounts but I have added 1/8" with the rocker insert. If I rock it back on #3 maybe that will fix it? Is the bushing bolt too long and bottoming out on the cage nut and not compressing the poly bushing? Should I go rubber mounts and maybe that would let me compress it more?!?!?
Thanks again for the discussion guys....
-Scott
I have some pictures of the mounts before I took the body off and it looks like it sits properly on the frame. The rear section without shims would be held in place by the door strikers. The gap would open at the top of the door until the strikers catch and the doors wont (or shouldnt) open. That's why I have the washers in there for spacers. My thought was that I need to raise the front some to help close that gap and then the rear would not need so many shims/spacers?
Before body lift:
After (sorry for the dark photo but the trailing arm bolt is a good indicator):
After looking at the pictures from Alan (Thanks!) I am sure that #2 and #3 are sittng on the poly mounts but I have added 1/8" with the rocker insert. If I rock it back on #3 maybe that will fix it? Is the bushing bolt too long and bottoming out on the cage nut and not compressing the poly bushing? Should I go rubber mounts and maybe that would let me compress it more?!?!?
Thanks again for the discussion guys....
-Scott
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 109
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From: St.Augustine FL
Scott, it may be possible that the bolts are bottoming out not letting you tighten properly,it also may be that the prothane bushings have a small(less thick) piece and a large piece(thicker)are they orientated properly? you may have better luck with stock rubber bushings so that they will compress a bit more than the prothane along with your idea of re shimming front and #1 mount to rock it back.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 31,274
Likes: 4,366
From: Westminster Maryland
Hi Scott,
Something is holding the body up.
I'd look carefully for something besides the body mounts.
Is the tank cross member in the wrong place or upside down.... so the rear deck is sitting on the tank?
Normal body/frame mate
Tank
Regards,
Alan
Something is holding the body up.
I'd look carefully for something besides the body mounts.
Is the tank cross member in the wrong place or upside down.... so the rear deck is sitting on the tank?
Normal body/frame mate
Tank
Regards,
Alan
Thread Starter
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Thanks Alan, I wish my #3 mount and body frame alignment looked like that! I will double check my tank when I get home tomorrow (out on business today). But I believe that if I took the washers out of my #4 mount the body would float down until the door striker catches it, it isnt hitting anything? I will double check though.
If the poly mounts dont crush I dont understand how the body can sit lower in the channel. I can shine a flashlight in there and see that #3 is frame->cage nut->washer->poly bushing->rocker insert->rocker. The bushing is not compressed at all, but the bolts are tight. Is the poly supposed to be compressed? if so is my bolt bottoming out? I bought a bolt kit from Wilcox but it isnt specifically for poly bushings. Do I need specific bolts for poly bushings?
Again, I really appreciate the help here guys!!!
-Scott
If the poly mounts dont crush I dont understand how the body can sit lower in the channel. I can shine a flashlight in there and see that #3 is frame->cage nut->washer->poly bushing->rocker insert->rocker. The bushing is not compressed at all, but the bolts are tight. Is the poly supposed to be compressed? if so is my bolt bottoming out? I bought a bolt kit from Wilcox but it isnt specifically for poly bushings. Do I need specific bolts for poly bushings?
Again, I really appreciate the help here guys!!!
-Scott