69- do you have to remove the body to replace the fuel lines with a 2 line system?

 

I just replaced mine as part of having the body off the car and can tell you that I can't see a way of doing it with the body on. Not with the number of bends and how it must follow the kickup in the frame and around back by the tank.

 

As I understand it, as a minimum, you would have to separate one body mount and do some bending/unbending of the one-piece fuel line to keep it 'original'. If I were doing it, I would split that line at a strategic location, double-flare both cut ends with fitting nuts, and put a union fitting in place when the two lines were reassembled. No way would I separate a body mount to save splitting a fuel line.

 

thank you, I didn't think it would be an easy task.

 

I separate body and frames quite often and it is not that big of a deal. YES...you can run into problems which is why people choose to cut lines and modify them. That is their choice....but for me...I put the lines in as it was designed....NOT CUT.

You do not have to remove the body entirely....because you can raise and tilt the right side up enough to install these lines and clamp them correctly.

IF you choose to try to remove the body mount bolts and they feel like they are not moving....DO NOT keep trying to remove them. And it would be WISE to use a 6 point socket and NOT a 12 point socket...so you do not round off the head. If the bolt(s) seem to be locked in place...STOP and this is when you have to carefully grind off the heads so when you tilt the body up...you can then gain access to the caged nut and apply a penetrating oil or whatever and get the rest of the bolt out and replace them.

And...do not be surprised that in the number 4 location...(behind the rear wheels)...that the caged nut inside the car will fail and the nut will spin and this is no big deal. Cut the head off and this repair is an easy fix due to no one can see it anyway and the caged nut from the factory was assembled that way for ease of assembly.

DUB

 

I admire your 'pluck', DUB.

So, if going to all that trouble is worth having an un-cut line [that no one can see], have at it.
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Honestly, I'm surprised that some vendor hasn't put together a 2-piece [main] fuel line set.

 

My wife used to own a '79 C-3, and unfortunately, before we met, she had driven it for a couple of winters, and the undercarriage didn't get flushed down in the spring. Consequently, the fuel lines rotted out at the "dogleg" of the frame, and started leaking. By that time we had met and gotten married, so I was left to tackle the job.

I found out first hand, that there was no way to replace the fuel line, ESPECIALLY the later C-3s, without lifting the body. I didn't have the necessary equipment to do that, so I used braided steel covered fuel line....

 

i have read some posts where it has been done. With that being said I have tried and failed. Body off. Be warned a lot of might as well while its off happens!

 

Nice work!

 

As I wrote...I have to have at it. It has NOTHING to do with if you can see it or not. TRUST ME...I would find a splice....and I have found some scary stuff because a person chose to either not pay to repair it correctly...or did it themselves and are now taking a chance of their car leaking fuel and catching fire. I know how to do it correctly and it is something that I am not afraid to do.

It is the fuel system....and we all have seen enough photos of Corvettes on fire. And I bet no one can guess on how many fuel tanks and fuel lines I have removed and replaced AFTER some BOZO actually took the time to remove it and ATTEMPT to repair the leak by slapping fiberglass and resin on it. Or the fuel line has a rubber hose clamped to it and it broke... You all would be shocked....and how many of them...when they were in my shop for other repairs....spring a leak overnight so when I opened up in the morning...I about got knocked out by the gas fumes all in my building when I enter it...and I am running like 'FLASH' to shut down all power to the building and try to get the fumes out and get up several gallons of fuel that have spread out across my floor. SO YES....I have person interest in not having someone screw up when dealing with their fuel system. I do not take it lightly at all. My business goes up in flames because someone can not do something correctly.

Do me a favor...go into business working on Corvettes exclusively...and each and every fuel line you have to replace... cut and do as you like...then...have a meeting with your corporate attorney and ask them if 'something' happens and it is due to me changing/altering a cars fuel delivery design...will I be liable. See what the attorney says. Like I have been told by people in the Judicial profession..."Dub, YOU are the professional...you are supposed to know what is best". Because I am sure...if the car you modified caught fire and someone got hurt bad or died...I bet that the attorney for the family will be coming at you with a vengeance because you are NOT an engineer and what makes you think that your 'idea' was BEST for the customer.

THAT is why I respond like I do....My brain is wired differently because I am LIABLE.

Why change something that does not need to be changed. The costs of testing and having the new design approved for sale so the company would not be held liable...it too costly and pointless.

DUB

 

My comments were to the OP, DUB. You made your position very clear. For others, like me, putting in two more flares with nuts and a union fitting is not something that needs to be "tested". AN fittings (et al) have been used for years with very few problems.

 

I understand where you're coming from, so let me throw this $0.02 into the discussion. In years gone by, I had a number of GM A-bodies as "winter bombers". Whenever I got another one, the FIRST thing I did was replace the brake and fuel lines, as a safety measure.

However, consider that these cars, FROM THE FACTORY, had two sections of rubber line in the fuel system. The first, was between the line coming out of the fuel sender in the tank and the line along the frame, that ran to the front of the car. The second was between this hard line, and the fuel pump, where a "flexible connection" was needed between the solid frame and the rocking engine.

Nobody died, when these connections were done PROPERLY. The fuel lines back them were under suction, from a front mounted fuel pump, and even beyond the pump, fuel pressure was only 4-5 pounds. Obviously, that isn't the case today.

I understand, however, "DUB"s point about the "bubba fixes" that are out there.....

 

You don't have to completely remove the body to replace the fuel lines, but you will have to raise the passenger side a couple inches to do the job.

I did this a few years ago for my EFI conversion. I had one of the automotive tubing vendors manufacture a pre-bent 3/8" return line for me that exactly mimicked the factory 1/4" return line, and I wanted it installed in one piece, as I felt that was the proper way to do it. The proper way is usually not the quick and easy way!

First I removed the passenger side rear bumper, and then I removed the 4 passenger side body bolts. I had the whole car up about 24" off the ground on jackstands, and using a block of wood almost the width of the door under the rocker, I jacked the body up about 1 1/2" which was just enough to get the line up and over the rear kick up in the frame. With the help of a buddy, we were able to snake the line up the rear frame kick up pretty easily - I was actually surprised how easy it went! My friend guided the line up through the wheel well while I was underneath pushing and manipulating it through. I was dreading this job, but it turned out to be fairly quick and easy, just time consuming preparing for it, and then putting things back together after.

 

U have to "bead" the fuel lines if using flex hose for the splice. A lot of enthusiasts dont know how important the bead is to keep the rubber or vitrel or whatever flex hose onto the metal hose even with a hose clamp. But i have to agree with those that notice the stock lines use flex from tank sending unit to the metal lines up on the rear wheel well. Plenty of flex used on the drivers side also for the charcoal canister vent which has the same potential for leaks. U definitely need to do it correctly but with the amount of flex hose used with the regular stock installation i can live with it at the kick up in front of the rear wheel.

Now i may be partial here as i recently replaced my body mounts and dont even want to try another body lift. Had this not happened i would be interested in using DUBs method to lift that side a few inches or maybe for an entire body mount replacement if not previously done. But again i feel if done correctly with tubing beads and careful not to create any bends that could kink the flex hose it should be reliable.

I did alot of searching for 90 degree flex hose bends and really the only thing in 3/8" hose was the S bend for the fuel pump as u can cut it for two 90 degree bends. I think i found a 1/4" 90* flex hose in a Harley D. part or maybe a Briggs and Straton lawn mower part. A real beading tool is expensive as the only one i found was for general aircraft. But u could just use the tubing flare tool to bump something up thats usable - kinda like an aborted double flair.

Have to thx to tyrant for those great pix - very helpful even for me to get prepared for this. Im looking at 1 splice at the kick up before the rear wheel.

Ok thats my 2 cents.

 

SORRY...I did not mean to come off as directly coming back at you. If it came across that way I TRULY APOLOGIZE!!!!!!

Honestly...if you can double flare and get it right...you are one of the few people who take the time to do that. Most people do not have the correct tools to perform this job correctly. Because you are doing the work for yourself...obviously you do not need to test it. Its your car. But if you paid someone to do it....that is a totally different scenario. That is all I was trying to convey to those who may read this. If a person chooses to do it for them self and deal with the success or failure of doing it. PAY someone to do a modification...that is something entirely different.

leadfoot4:
YES...I am aware that there is rubber hoses....and the lines have the special bubble flare at the end. I have no issues with that at all. Due to their location..they are basically protected from road debris. In my previous post of fuel leaking....it was not the rubber hoses that failed...it was s rubber hose joining a cut out section of the factory line and neglected.

I have NO PROBLEMS in someone putting in stainless steel braided line. But this also depends on the person installing it and if they do it correctly. Using the correct AN fitting and taking time to THINK and make sure where they put the fittings is best. AND if needing to fabricate a debris shield...then do it. I applaud you for it. Would I do it with #6 braided hose..YES. Would I do it with #8 braided hose ...YES. Have I done it...YES BUT...on custom jobs where increased fuel supply lines and so on are just that...CUSTOM. And if solid tubing can not be flared and bent to work due to the dynamics of 'this and that'. Then I have no choice. But replacing a factory line on a factory car is something else.

DUB

 

Thanks for this information, I think for my first try I am going to try and raise the body and keep the lines in one piece.

 

IF you have ANY PROBLEMS.....and are NOT SURE in what to do....STOP and ask for advice.

Just make sure that if ALL GOES WELL....and you are going to tilt the body up....that BEFORE you do....you want to make sure you look at your "body to frame' index/line-up holes in the door sill areas and verify where they are BEFORE you go and tilt up the body. Just in case they are off and the body to the frame is actually NOT SQUARE. It will give you a good reference....instead of not knowing about them and not know what they looked like before you tilted up the body.

For a tubing supplier...I would HIGHLY suggest http://inlinetube.com/Preformed%20Li.../CX-CAT-03.htm

DUB

 

Changing the nature of the discussion just a bit, I put in SS lines with the body off and kind of regretted using SS. My 45 year old steel lines were in great shape and a new set of steel lines would certainly outlast me. The SS lines didn't bend easily and it took a lot of fiddling to get to get a good fit, and again, with the body off.

Also to note, there is some sort of Euro metal fuel plumbing line I ran across, I think here in the Forum, that looks a lot like copper, but isn't. It appeared to offer the benefits of copper and didn't have copper's drawbacks. Somebody might know more than I if I have my "facts" wrong, just thought I would mention it.

Facts seem to turn into "facts" after a while, for me at least.

 

The line you are talking about is called nickel copper.It is as strong as the steel line but will not corrode.The price is very close to the stainless tubing but much easier to form and bend.It is actually much easier to bend than the regular steel line also.I now do all brake lines and most others with this tubing.

 

If using the nickel/copper line....which I use. I would HIGHLY ADVISE that the armor spiral wire wrap that slides down over the line is used. Even though there are benefits with the nickel/copper line. It is soft and you can gouge it easily. SO...that is why using the spiral wrap is HIGHLY ADVISED.

DUB