1980 Positive battery cable question
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
Thanks Tim, I'll tackle that first. I can say that some of those links by the starter on that harness look a little "crispy". I'm not sure what the small white "links" are on the wires going to the starter. They look like fuse holders.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Starter "heat soak" is a myth. Starters have been operating fine for decades living right next to the exhaust headers WITHOUT PROBLEM on the vast majority of Chevys ever built.
The primary causes of the symptoms you describe are:
1. Missing or defective ground cable (2 awg) from frame to right-side engine mount. And/or missing front starter mounting bracket which bolts to that same right-side mount. {These two items provide the starter with direct electrical ground link to battery.}
2. Defective positive cable (which you have changed with no success).
3. Bad/weak starter solenoid which, if wiring gets old/deteriorated, can have problems making connection when very hot.
How's your engine ground cable look? (check wire inside insulation at the ends).
The primary causes of the symptoms you describe are:
1. Missing or defective ground cable (2 awg) from frame to right-side engine mount. And/or missing front starter mounting bracket which bolts to that same right-side mount. {These two items provide the starter with direct electrical ground link to battery.}
2. Defective positive cable (which you have changed with no success).
3. Bad/weak starter solenoid which, if wiring gets old/deteriorated, can have problems making connection when very hot.
How's your engine ground cable look? (check wire inside insulation at the ends).
Last edited by 7T1vette; Jun 13, 2016 at 04:30 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
All new grounds plus a new ground cable directly from the negative battery cable (also brand new copper) to the starter bolt.
Starter "heat soak" is a myth. Starters have been operating fine for decades living right next to the exhaust headers WITHOUT PROBLEM on the vast majority of Chevys ever built.
The primary causes of the symptoms you describe are:
1. Missing or defective ground cable (2 awg) from frame to right-side engine mount. And/or missing front starter mounting bracket which bolts to that same right-side mount.
2. Defective positive cable (which you have changed with no success).
3. Bad/weak starter solenoid which, if wiring gets old/deteriorated, can have problems making connection when very hot.
How's your engine ground cable look? (check wire inside insulation at the ends).
The primary causes of the symptoms you describe are:
1. Missing or defective ground cable (2 awg) from frame to right-side engine mount. And/or missing front starter mounting bracket which bolts to that same right-side mount.
2. Defective positive cable (which you have changed with no success).
3. Bad/weak starter solenoid which, if wiring gets old/deteriorated, can have problems making connection when very hot.
How's your engine ground cable look? (check wire inside insulation at the ends).
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Positive cable should go to the starter solenoid. Ground cable goes to motor mount/starter casing.
If those are correct, your problem is the starter solenoid (with 90% probability), IMO.
P.S. The only moving part in the starter is the armature which has bushing/bearing at both ends...and clearances that will not bind up under hot (engine compartment) conditions. As I stated earlier, STARTER heat soak is a myth.
If those are correct, your problem is the starter solenoid (with 90% probability), IMO.
P.S. The only moving part in the starter is the armature which has bushing/bearing at both ends...and clearances that will not bind up under hot (engine compartment) conditions. As I stated earlier, STARTER heat soak is a myth.
Last edited by 7T1vette; Jun 13, 2016 at 05:10 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
Positive cable goes from the battery to the starter directly
Ground cable goes from battery negative terminal to frame then daisy chains to the starter case directly.
Third starter, same issue so it's not the solenoid. Battery is brand new 1000 CCA, timing is correct, so far everything checks out which is why this is driving me crazy. Problem was never there before the headers went on so I'm hoping the starter harness sheds some light on the issue.
Ground cable goes from battery negative terminal to frame then daisy chains to the starter case directly.
Third starter, same issue so it's not the solenoid. Battery is brand new 1000 CCA, timing is correct, so far everything checks out which is why this is driving me crazy. Problem was never there before the headers went on so I'm hoping the starter harness sheds some light on the issue.
Positive cable should go to the starter solenoid. Ground cable goes to motor mount/starter casing.
If those are correct, your problem is the starter solenoid (with 90% probability), IMO.
P.S. The only moving part in the starter is the armature which has bushing/bearing at both ends...and clearances that will not bind up under hot (engine compartment) conditions. As I stated earlier, STARTER heat soak is a myth.
If those are correct, your problem is the starter solenoid (with 90% probability), IMO.
P.S. The only moving part in the starter is the armature which has bushing/bearing at both ends...and clearances that will not bind up under hot (engine compartment) conditions. As I stated earlier, STARTER heat soak is a myth.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 567
Likes: 82
From: Auckland
Positive cable goes from the battery to the starter directly
Ground cable goes from battery negative terminal to frame then daisy chains to the starter case directly.
Third starter, same issue so it's not the solenoid. Battery is brand new 1000 CCA, timing is correct, so far everything checks out which is why this is driving me crazy. Problem was never there before the headers went on so I'm hoping the starter harness sheds some light on the issue.
Ground cable goes from battery negative terminal to frame then daisy chains to the starter case directly.
Third starter, same issue so it's not the solenoid. Battery is brand new 1000 CCA, timing is correct, so far everything checks out which is why this is driving me crazy. Problem was never there before the headers went on so I'm hoping the starter harness sheds some light on the issue.
Just noticed what you were saying with the terminal voltage at the battery. Are you sure that it's a good battery? Even a new battery can be faulty. Might be a good idea to have it tested.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 943
Likes: 73
[QUOTE=samdjr74;1592409797]I've done that in the past but at the battery. When cold the voltage drop goes from 14 to 10 but when hot it goes from 14 to 7 so something is sucking up juice.
This is still a concern. Did you jump the solenoid when it's hot with a 12v lead (remote switch) yet?
Heat is a reality when dealing with the solenoid. Dead cold, the solenoid doesn't have the same resistance that it does when the engine is up to operating temperature. The solenoid is a wire wound unit. If the engine is hot and a 12v jumper wire spins the starter normally, you need to look at your engine harness.
This is still a concern. Did you jump the solenoid when it's hot with a 12v lead (remote switch) yet?
Heat is a reality when dealing with the solenoid. Dead cold, the solenoid doesn't have the same resistance that it does when the engine is up to operating temperature. The solenoid is a wire wound unit. If the engine is hot and a 12v jumper wire spins the starter normally, you need to look at your engine harness.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
Brand new good tested battery and the same results as the 750 CCA battery I replaced.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
No, I haven't had a chance, too busy with work but I'll try this week to look at that.
[QUOTE=BlackC3vette;1592416536]
[QUOTE=BlackC3vette;1592416536]
I've done that in the past but at the battery. When cold the voltage drop goes from 14 to 10 but when hot it goes from 14 to 7 so something is sucking up juice.
This is still a concern. Did you jump the solenoid when it's hot with a 12v lead (remote switch) yet?
Heat is a reality when dealing with the solenoid. Dead cold, the solenoid doesn't have the same resistance that it does when the engine is up to operating temperature. The solenoid is a wire wound unit. If the engine is hot and a 12v jumper wire spins the starter normally, you need to look at your engine harness.
This is still a concern. Did you jump the solenoid when it's hot with a 12v lead (remote switch) yet?
Heat is a reality when dealing with the solenoid. Dead cold, the solenoid doesn't have the same resistance that it does when the engine is up to operating temperature. The solenoid is a wire wound unit. If the engine is hot and a 12v jumper wire spins the starter normally, you need to look at your engine harness.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 943
Likes: 73
[QUOTE=samdjr74;1592416867]No, I haven't had a chance, too busy with work but I'll try this week to look at that.
I realized that you wrote the voltage was checked at the battery. The voltage should not drop below the 9 to 9.5 volt level on the battery while cranking. This is another indicator of a problem in the system and not necessarily the starter. Do you have a separate heavy ground wire that goes from the chassis to the engine? My 80 has one near the motor mount on the passenger side.
I realized that you wrote the voltage was checked at the battery. The voltage should not drop below the 9 to 9.5 volt level on the battery while cranking. This is another indicator of a problem in the system and not necessarily the starter. Do you have a separate heavy ground wire that goes from the chassis to the engine? My 80 has one near the motor mount on the passenger side.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
Yes, there's a separate ground from the chassis to the engine in the same spot you're talking about.
[QUOTE=BlackC3vette;1592420152]
[QUOTE=BlackC3vette;1592420152]
No, I haven't had a chance, too busy with work but I'll try this week to look at that.
I realized that you wrote the voltage was checked at the battery. The voltage should not drop below the 9 to 9.5 volt level on the battery while cranking. This is another indicator of a problem in the system and not necessarily the starter. Do you have a separate heavy ground wire that goes from the chassis to the engine? My 80 has one near the motor mount on the passenger side.
I realized that you wrote the voltage was checked at the battery. The voltage should not drop below the 9 to 9.5 volt level on the battery while cranking. This is another indicator of a problem in the system and not necessarily the starter. Do you have a separate heavy ground wire that goes from the chassis to the engine? My 80 has one near the motor mount on the passenger side.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 37,637
Likes: 3,118
From: Crossville TN
Battery positive does NOT go directly to the starter. It goes to the starter solenoid. There is a metal bar that then runs from the solenoid to the positive starter terminal when the solenoid is activated by the ignition switch.
If you don't know that's how all Chevy's (of the last 60 years, anyway) are wired, you shouldn't be messing around with your starter.
If you don't know that's how all Chevy's (of the last 60 years, anyway) are wired, you shouldn't be messing around with your starter.
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 84
Likes: 11
From: Yakima Washington State
Battery positive does NOT go directly to the starter. It goes to the starter solenoid. There is a metal bar that then runs from the solenoid to the positive starter terminal when the solenoid is activated by the ignition switch.
If you don't know that's how all Chevy's (of the last 60 years, anyway) are wired, you shouldn't be messing around with your starter.
If you don't know that's how all Chevy's (of the last 60 years, anyway) are wired, you shouldn't be messing around with your starter.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
Thanks for the correction, I forgot to say solenoid but I know where it goes.
Battery positive does NOT go directly to the starter. It goes to the starter solenoid. There is a metal bar that then runs from the solenoid to the positive starter terminal when the solenoid is activated by the ignition switch.
If you don't know that's how all Chevy's (of the last 60 years, anyway) are wired, you shouldn't be messing around with your starter.
If you don't know that's how all Chevy's (of the last 60 years, anyway) are wired, you shouldn't be messing around with your starter.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 483
Likes: 3
From: Pequannock NJ
