Hey guys,
I'm new to the forum and have a question or two for the members who autocross their C3s.
My current autocross car is a 73 Datsun 240Z that I've dropped an LT-1 into and upgraded all the suspension to adjustable parts (coil overs, rod end arms, etc..). The car has been a blast to race over the last 8 years or so but is beginning to show the effects of the abuse, consequently I'm beginning to look around for a new project to replace it. I know there are better cars to autocross (C4, C5 Z06, Miata, BMW M3, etc..) but I'd rather spend my money on new parts and upgrades vs the initial purchase so I'm exploring the idea of picking up a ratty C3 and turning it into a decent autocrosser.
So, am I barking up the wrong tree here?
Can the C3 be made into a decent autocrosser without spending a ton of money? A gauge for "ton of money" is I bought the 240Z for ~$500.00 and have spent a total of ~$10,000 including tools purchases on the car. I'm cheap in other words but am willing and able to do all the work on my car.
What about running one in CAM-S (Classic American Muscle S) class?

I look forward to hearing input from you guys!!

Wheelman359

 

Coming from a smaller car thats probably easier to toss around, "cheap" Id say no.
All depends on your expectations and interpretation of what cheap is

There are guys here that have been doing it forever perhaps they can pipe in ways to do it without wasting money for max results to better help you decide.

If I were you id pick up an 84 or 89... Z51 even better...worlds ahead in handling they are killer autorcrossers and can be bought for pennies they are dirt cheap and handlers out of the box. may have to up the power though.

 

Google Danny Popps. May not be cheap but what he built works.

http://www.superchevy.com/features/1...ette-stingray/

 

after reviewing the rule book. Cam T is for non abs and 3000 lbs min without driver. That 3000 is attainable weight in a caged C-3 vette. My 79 is right on the limit and can run that class

Cam S allows shorter 90 wheel base, and vettes with abs , traction control are 3000 pounds and all other 2350 lbs. I don't think a stock bodied vette and framed C-3 vette can get anywhere near that weight

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1446494308

 

Corvettes are not eligible for CAM-T, it carries the same restriction to 4 seat cars or pickups as CAM-C.

Quote from the linked rules:
CAM-T (Traditional) (body styles originating from 1954-89)
• Examples: Camaro (-1991), Mustang (-1993), Barracuda (-1974)
• All CAM-C restrictions apply except additional items below.
• ABS/TCS is not allowed. OE components may be removed to comply.
• Weight without driver (lbs.), minimum................................. ........................................ ... 3000

I've co-driven a C4 (I think it was a 94 or 95 with the LT-1) and they are good handlers but I don't like the styling.

This season I've been co-driving an 02 C5 Z06 which is the car that got me thinking about building a corvette, but something like that is outside of the cost range I feel comfortable with. The owner picked it up for ~$15,000, it's got about 100k miles on it and has been autocrossed and road raced so it's seen some hard miles. It's been taken care of so it isn't a basket case but the interior has seen better days.

 

It is always easy to spend other peoples money but with all that autocross experience you should consider stepping up to vintage racing a C-3, parts are easy and relatively cheap and the fun factor lasts quite a bit longer than a run down an autocross track....just my opinion.

 

The early C4s are lighter and better for autox

If you like the C5 take a look at an early fixed roof coupe (FRC)

They are light, good styling and unless you find a seller with the "very rare" bs you can get one pretty reasonably. Just about anything from the Z06 bolts on lots of aftermarket support and good used stuff floating around out there.

Many frc's owners have already done the Z06 upgrades from browsing the FS section

 

There were plenty of C3s running at Nationals. They can be made into a weapon. Unfortunately I can't seem to find either results or an entry list showing vehicles. An LS powered C3 would work really well anyways. Obviously you're not trying to win the whole show, or you'd be driving something else, and looking for something else to replace it. Go for it I say...

 

Do you vintage race a C3. If so how much can you do and stay in a vintage class. I am looking at building a 78-79 but with mod engine / transmission. like LSX / T56 Magnum, Bigger front brakes.

Does the car need to keep original parts ?

 

It kinda sounds like You want a budget racer and I can say that you would be better off with a C4. On the C3 you will end up wanting to modernize the suspension and by the time You have bought the parts to do that You could of bought a complete C4. Don't get me wrong, there is no better feeling than laying down a better time in a C3 than the guy ahead of you in his new Z06. You might go to a Corvette only Autocross and check it out. If You show up in Your 240 and You claim its a Corvette engine they will probably let you run. The rules are generally pretty loose. This will give you a chance to talk to the owners and maybe even go for a ride.
Before my Corvettes I had a 71 240. I had the Scarab kit to install a SBC but it was a project that never happened. This was in the late 70's.

 

Honestly? The Z you have is probably a better base if talking limited budget. My wife has a 260z (mostly stock, mild engine, reasonable shocks and well maintained suspension, standard 14" wheels with decent tyres), and I have a C3 (borgeson steering box, aftermarket upper control arms, gymkhana suspension options, with a coil cut from front, shortened leaf in rear, 17x9.5 wheels with good performance rubber), and the Z probably handles better, and definitely has better feel and feedback. It's also a LOT lighter, ~400kg (~880lb)...

If money is being spent, there's lots of nice bits for c3's, but you definitely pay corvette tax.

 

The vintage classes I have looked into require a '68-'72 spec car with basically period correct mods. Iron head 350, stock iron calipers, no fabricated/adjustable control arms, etc. Springs and sway bars are free so long as track width remains the same, but there is not a lot you can change. That is part of the appeal for me since it will help keep the cost down. I just need to sell my C4 before I can get another car.

To the OP, if you have seat time in a C5 you're not going to like a C3 much. Its old, sloppy, and slow (by comparison). A C3 will take a lot of work to be "close" to what a C5 is right out of the box. I would look for a high mile base C5 and go from there. '01 and newer share the same shortblock as the Z06.

 

It all depends on your expectations or the level of competitiveness you want to achieve. "Cheap" and CAM-S don't go together if you want to compete with the newer cars; Mike "Jr" Johnson entered a C3 in CAM-S at the CAM challenge finale and Solo Nationals, but that is an LS(7?) powered car with completely altered suspension and drivetrain and brake components. Visually it seems like a clone of Danny's car but I'm not sure to what extent that is true. Jr. ran competitive times with the C5's that finished ahead of him. C3's have the advantage of lower allowable minimum weight in CAM-S than the newer cars with the same power potential. Yes, let's create a class for "classic" American cars and we'll stick the C4's and C5's in too....

My car is prepped to NCCC rules, so a CAM car it is not. Iron-headed SBC '70 LT-1 with four speed, stock suspension configuration (stiff springs), Koni SA's, and stock type brakes. I generally run good times with it (with some course dependency), but that's because I'm on race tires, which most people seem to not want to commit to these days. It's a ton of fun though.

Bottom line is it depends on what you want to achieve.

PS the article on Danny's car is outdated, it's now running a de-stroked LS7.

 

I raced the #1 below, still have it in the trailer, Corvette vintage rules are based on SCCA A/P-B/P from the pre 1973 era.

 

• All CAM-C restrictions apply except additional items below.

Thanks for pointing that out. I've been an SCCA off and on member since the 80's. The local SCCA has always been run by people 50 miles away and the monthly meeting were on a week night conflicting for me. I was always disillusioned because they were run by the 95 % of solo racers and 5% road racers. So I tried solo classes like BP and later BSP in the 80's. I always found road racing to be the best bang for the buck.

So I'm not a solo event person and since our local RR track closed in 2015 I'm in limbo. I mostly did SCCA in the track trials class as a VP3 and other comp events. 25 years old with lots of mods allowed and a ci cap per weight bracket. VARA and NASA were the main racing venues where I live. I always like the Speed Ventures track rental events

 

I've taken the Z about as far as I want to, it's currently able to run with the C5 I've been co-driving and regularly beat a C6 ZR-1 2 seasons ago when I was sharing it with another guy who's a better driver than myself.

The issues I've hit with it have to do with parts failing in ways that could kill someone depending on the timing of the failure. The worst one was a front wheel hub that broke at the end of a run when I was driving. Fortunately I was going relatively slow (~35 mph) and on a flat section of pavement so no one was hurt. I installed 2 "new" hubs and replaced the tore up fender only to have the "new" hub on the same side of the car fail again after 2 events (16 runs). This failure wasn't as catastrophic (the wheel remained on the car) but has really made me question whether I want to continue with it.

In it's defense it's being pushed to the limit. We put telemetry on it that season and were regularly seeing 1.8Gs sustained in corners, .9Gs accelerating straight line and 1.3Gs braking.
I run Hoosier A6s, the suspension is setup very well, the car makes lots of power (~400 at the crank) and weighs ~2400 lbs.

So, I think it's time to build something new, I enjoy the building as much as the driving. I have more disposable income than I did when I built the Z but don't want to invest a gob of money into a car I'll mostly use to race local autocross events.

As for the road racing, I'd like to try but am a type 1 diabetic and have real reservations about being on track and having a low episode sneak up on me. The other thing is as far as I know there no events local to me.

I guess a C4 is an option if I can find one REALLY cheap but like I said I don't like their styling. Of course there are few cars that are as sexy as a race prepped C3 dropped a few inches with wide tires and flared fenders.

 

I have this project available you could finish any way you like, send a PM if you or anyone else is interested

 

Awesome...wish I had the coin and a garage.
That would be driven to work every day

 

redvetracr - Stop tempting me with those photos!! I have had my eye on that for a while now, I just can't get another car right now.

Wheelman - You should buy my C4 race car so I can get the C3 redvet posted!

 

I would like a 71 or 72 240 .having the chevy motor has to make it a lot of fun.