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18's get ya around the race track... and help you blow away C4,5,6 and 7's...
not going to do this on a sloppy 15...
What size tires, and how the heck did you fit that wide of a tire in the rear of those stock (non-flared) fenders? any rubbing or bottoming out issues? They look so close to the fenders.
I'm having trouble fitting much more than the stock size on mine without rubbing issues on the frame and fender, etc., and I really don't want to flare the car.
As far as I have found, the only true 15" performance tire that is DOT approved for the road comes out of the UK. It is the 245/60/15 AVON CR6ZZ, but you're going to pay dearly for it at $419 each. I've been debating on trying it, but its a pricey bet if they don't work out. They are popular with the Ford GT and Cobra guys. Suppose to be good handling with classic looks; its just hard to get past the insane price tag .
As far as I have found, the only true 15" performance tire that is DOT approved for the road comes out of the UK. It is the 245/60/15 AVON CR6ZZ, but you're going to pay dearly for it at $419 each. I've been debating on trying it, but its a pricey bet if they don't work out. They are popular with the Ford GT and Cobra guys. Suppose to be good handling with classic looks; its just hard to get past the insane price tag .
Mickey Thompson ET Street S/S and R are both DOT approved for the streets. I'm not sure how those will compare with this Avon in the handling department, but they are less than half the price at $188 for 255/60r15 for the Street S/S.
Oh boy, here you go again;
yes different tires have different comfort aspects, but you cant argue the fact that more sidewall equals more flex/give/comfort in nearly all cases. That's one of the main reasons to move up to bigger wheels with less sidewall; to get ride of the flex and handle better!!!
Maybe with the same make and model of tire. But not when picking from the available tires and sticking within a similar price range.
Read my point #3 again. I have found I definitely hate how a low performance, high sidewall tire bounces over every little bump causing the car to shake and shudder because it's built in "spring" doesn't get properly damped by the shock absorber.
Maybe with the same make and model of tire. But not when picking from the available tires and sticking within a similar price range.
Read my point #3 again. I have found I definitely hate how a low performance, high sidewall tire bounces over every little bump causing the car to shake and shudder because it's built in "spring" doesn't get properly damped by the shock absorber.
Yes, I understand how that happens to a degree, but if what your saying is so bad for a car's ride, then why have an aired tire in the first place? We could just wrap a wheel in a layer of rubber, not using any air in between the wheel to totally eliminate that tire bounce. Should we also replace the control arm bushings and other rubber suspension parts with steel bearings while we're at it? I don't believe any street car manufacture would ever do that!
The rubber suspension parts and tires are designed to absorb the initial shock, and then the coils and shocks/struts do the job of countering that bounce and taking the majority of a bump or weight transfer. One of the main reasons for a thicker sidewall tire (more air volume, and thus allowing more flexible give/compression) is to help the dampening process, adding driver comfort and control. Without any rubber or air to help cushion, a car would easily get jerked around too much, including possibly jerking the steering wheel out of the driver's hands, and it would rattle the car into pieces eventually.
And this is why true off road vehicles stay far away from big wheels with little sidewall/air, and why they run lower air pressure to help absorb bumps/rocks better. Bottom line is that its a trade off, and neither situation is perfect for all conditions.
What size tires, and how the heck did you fit that wide of a tire in the rear of those stock (non-flared) fenders? any rubbing or bottoming out issues? They look so close to the fenders.
I'm having trouble fitting much more than the stock size on mine without rubbing issues on the frame and fender, etc., and I really don't want to flare the car.
Baby is in my garage now as I work on the EFI again... so do not know the tire size off hand... but the rear wheels are 18 X 10" rims... I designed them myself and had centerline make them.. they are a 1 off.. the tread ware is 180, which is still way way to hard.. good for about 10,000 miles, or about 1000 miles on the track..and still peel through rubber all the way through 3rd. its funny... I can be doing 70mph down the freeway, just press down on the gas and lay down a sustained burnout down the freeway at 70!
I did have to remove the parking brake flange from the trailing arms... heck, i took the whole parking brake system out,, less weight. less problems with drag..
No rubbing... have a 5" backspacing on the rims..
Baby is in my garage now as I work on the EFI again... so do not know the tire size off hand... but the rear wheels are 18 X 10" rims... I designed them myself and had centerline make them.. they are a 1 off.. the tread ware is 180, which is still way way to hard.. good for about 10,000 miles, or about 1000 miles on the track..and still peel through rubber all the way through 3rd. its funny... I can be doing 70mph down the freeway, just press down on the gas and lay down a sustained burnout down the freeway at 70!
I did have to remove the parking brake flange from the trailing arms... heck, i took the whole parking brake system out,, less weight. less problems with drag..
No rubbing... have a 5" backspacing on the rims..
Wow, that's crazy how big/wide those tires look and you got them to fit just by getting the parking brake bracket out of the way. I had rubbing issues on the frame and fender lip (both sides of the tire) by just putting a 1 inch taller and wider tire than stock (295/45r18). It must be the height that is causing the trouble.
I have a manual so I don't want to totally get rid of the parking brake system (even though its pretty bad) in case I need to park on a good incline, but I'm all about dropping weight wherever I can. I made some fiberglass headlight cover shells and got rid of the whole vacuum headlight assemblies with all the related components; I just mounted some small high powered driver lights in the grill area which work pretty good when I drive at night.
And what the heck is under your hood pulling a good burn out at 70mph with those tires?
Yes, I understand how that happens to a degree, but if what your saying is so bad for a car's ride, then why have an aired tire in the first place?
I didn't say it was always bad. I was trying to say I find it excessive with a poorly designed, low performance tall sidewall tire. Maybe that wasn't clear?
I far prefer the ride of a high performance ~slightly~ lower profile tire without the carcass of the tire shaking and shuddering around as much as the low performance tires do.
Wow, that's crazy how big/wide those tires look and you got them to fit just by getting the parking brake bracket out of the way. I had rubbing issues on the frame and fender lip ( both sides of the tire) by just putting a 1 inch taller and wider tire than stock (295/45r18). It must be the height that is causing the trouble.
I have a manual so I don't want to totally get ride of the parking brake system (even though its pretty bad) in case I need to park on a good incline, but I'm all about dropping weight wherever I can. I made some fiberglass headlight cover shells and got ride of the whole vacuum headlight assemblies with all the related components; I just mounted some small high powered driver lights in the grill area which work pretty good when I drive at night.
And what the heck is under your hood pulling a good burn out at 70mph with those tires?
mine is a manual as well... a TKO-600,,,,, 650hp... 680isf tq..... 2000-7000rpm working power range. 427 sbc parts wise about 13-15K$ (crank alone was near 3K$) not including assembly labor... As i did the assembly myself. just under 550hp at the rear wheels right now, (We own our own Dyno) and sitting at 3000lbs flat with a near 50-50 split on weight front/back.
We have 5 (used to be 6) corvettes we race, the C3, a well modified C4, 2 C5's one is a 427 Guldstarn and has been further modified and a C6ZO6 modified.... The C3 will lay wast to the all!:-)
We also race the Baja 500,,, that is fun!!!
The red one at the far end is now a blue C6ZO6:-) the girl, Roxann, is my wife..
Agree 100%. The only thing I would comment on that you did not is the "safety" aspect in the detail I will add. There have been suggestions on this forum that BF Goodrich Radial T/A tires are "unsafe" because of their old technology. I do not concede or believe they are UNSAFE in the environment we need on the public roads. Are they less safe than later model tires because maybe in a braking or handling situation in extreme maneuvering? Possibly....but not UNSAFE. Suggesting to people who have purchased and drive on 15 inch BF Goodrich Radial TA tires that their choice is UNSAFE implies these same people are willing to drive an unsafe car,....and I for one, do not believe that is true, nor do I like the suggestion that I would drive an unsafe car.
As we know, our C3 Corvettes are in many way less safe than modern cars. Its not an argument with any validity......but are they UNSAFE....NO. Its an argument on relative levels of safety.
I chose my words very carefully and at no point did I say, or even insinuate that the older tires were unsafe. I did say that tires of older chemical makeup were less safe than a modern compound, and this is not open to debate. The question that you should be asking is "how safe is safe enough?" when buying tires.
Obviously the BFG that everyone knows and loves seem to work just fine in most circumstances.
If push came to shove it would be very easy to prove that those tires have a longer stopping distance than say, a summer only modern sport tire however is a theoretically minor difference in stopping power enough to warrant moving away from a tire that is aesthetically pleasing or period correct for your car?
That, my friends, is subjective and we are once again back to the opinion thing. Everyone has one, just like an a-hole. It doesn't mean that we need to hear it.
Originally Posted by pauldana
Bolded... maybe,,, but to those, why buy a Vette? I mean.. you don't have to take it to the track... a little "spirited" canyon run is also a lot of fun...
I purchased my 1st one back when I was 21.. the one in the picture actually, and I wanted a sports car,,, not a cruiser... are a lot of vettes just cursers? maybe... pity though:-( as a Vette was made to race...
Once again, this is an opinion and is, in the strictest definition, untrue. They were not 'made to race' as they came with all the DOT required equipment to make them safe for road use. It is not a dedicated thoroughbred race car.
Your opinion is that these make a good race car when properly modified. It is further your opinion that these cars should be driven aggressively.
Thank you for your opinion. It is not a 'shame' when someone else has a different opinion of what to do with their own car. Comments like that are why these threads turn into giant dick-swinging contests.
I can tell you that I will not be driving mine on a track, or aggressively at all because cars bore me. That is MY opinion and it is no more right or wrong than yours.
Originally Posted by Les
PainfullySlow, very well stated. Maybe if everybody reads your post carefully we can put an end to the bickering....nah, that's probably hoping for too much.
I wouldn't hold your breath...
Originally Posted by lionelhutz
Saying a shorter sidewall always rides rougher is not an absolute.
#1. You generally don't change to 18" rims and use the same tire make and model as you were using on the 15" rims. If you're looking to improve the car then you generally buy a better tire.
#2. The construction of low performance, cheap 15" tires can be so bad that almost any performance 18" tires will roll smoother. The performance tire typically will be less out of round and have less variation in the construction which allows it to roll without introducing it's own movements into the suspension.
#3. The tire acting as suspension has no damping. So a tire with lots of "give" will bounce and wallow around. A little similar to what happens if you removed the shocks on your car. I personally don't like this feel over having a better damped package.
In the past, I've put the cheapest 15" tires I could fine onto a car and regretted it the whole time they stayed on the car. It simply rode badly on any road surface, even smooth roads. There was nothing technically wrong with the tires so no way to claim a tire defect. Overall, it got to the point I found the car hateful to drive.
Let's go back to reading comprehension 101. The very beginning of that section (and every section) which was carefully chosen reads like this.
It is also an irrefutable fact that all things being equal (tire compound, temperature, tire pressure)...
All 3 of your points completely ignore what I wrote. All three of your examples are NOT equal. This, again, is why these discussions always degrade into outright idiocy. If you like I can add a section that reads "HEY if you buy crappy Walmart tires they will not handle/ride/look as good as a higher quality tire". What I wrote is correct, and irrefutable. Someone did not check the definition before hitting reply.
Last edited by PainfullySlow; 01-11-2018 at 05:46 PM.
I chose my words very carefully and at no point did I say, or even insinuate that the older tires were unsafe. I did say that tires of older chemical makeup were less safe than a modern compound, and this is not open to debate. The question that you should be asking is "how safe is safe enough?" when buying tires.
Obviously the BFG that everyone knows and loves seem to work just fine in most circumstances.
If push came to shove it would be very easy to prove that those tires have a longer stopping distance than say, a summer only modern sport tire however is a theoretically minor difference in stopping power enough to warrant moving away from a tire that is aesthetically pleasing or period correct for your car?
That, my friends, is subjective and we are once again back to the opinion thing. Everyone has one, just like an a-hole. It doesn't mean that we need to hear it.
Once again, this is an opinion and is, in the strictest definition, untrue. They were not 'made to race' as they came with all the DOT required equipment to make them safe for road use. It is not a dedicated thoroughbred race car.
Your opinion is that these make a good race car when properly modified. It is further your opinion that these cars should be driven aggressively.
Thank you for your opinion. It is not a 'shame' when someone else has a different opinion of what to do with their own car. Comments like that are why these threads turn into giant dick-swinging contests.
I can tell you that I will not be driving mine on a track, or aggressively at all because cars bore me. That is MY opinion and it is no more right or wrong than yours.
I wouldn't hold your breath...
Let's go back to reading comprehension 101. The very beginning of that section (and every section) which was carefully chosen reads like this.
It is also an irrefutable fact that all things being equal (tire compound, temperature, tire pressure)...
All 3 of your points completely ignore what I wrote. All three of your examples are NOT equal. This, again, is why these discussions always degrade into outright idiocy. If you like I can add a section that reads "HEY if you buy crappy Walmart tires they will not handle/ride/look as good as a higher quality tire". What I wrote is correct, and irrefutable. Someone did not check the definition before hitting reply.
This is the last statement I am making. I agreed with you, and clarified a point about safety. You denied stating Radial TA tires are unsafe, then made a contradictory statement suggesting "how safe is safe enough".....I already answered that...they are. Its a proven fact given the hundred of thousand of these tires sold and installed on classic cars driven hundreds of thousands of miles. That is irrefutable. The "stopping distance" exceeds the needs of a street car driven responsibly. If I die because my car stopped 12 inches too late from killing me, I will have my wife send you all a letter apologizing for my bad decisions.
Secondly, when you tell someone on forum that "everyone has an opinion, but it does not mean we need to hear it", you cross a line. This is a FORUM, and just because anyone proclaims their expertise about anything does not make them correct. There are no "rules" about forum contributions that suggest that your opinion should be kept to yourself. The contributions of all members provide a balanced sum of information that we can decide on ourselves who is right or wrong. Sorry, in this age of "information", each of us will decide ourselves what is factual and what is BS. You, nor anyone else, is the know all on every subject. If I believed everything I read here on this forum and anywhere else, I would have went down the wrong path many times. You might be a little more humble.
Bottom line, I agreed with 100% of what you said, it was fairly balanced and fair representation of the subject, but try not to lecture too much cause we are not all morons.
Last edited by Torqued Off; 01-11-2018 at 07:54 PM.
All 3 of your points completely ignore what I wrote. All three of your examples are NOT equal. This, again, is why these discussions always degrade into outright idiocy.
First off. You posted compound, temperature and pressure. You DID NOT post construction. Construction has a rather big impact on how a tire responds to bumps, much more than the tread compound. So, you didn't chose you words that carefully.
Secondly. Why is it idiotic to compare how DIFFERENT tires perform when variables related to the tires change? It makes no sense to be only compare tires that are constructed and used exactly the same except for the hole in the middle being a different diameter. The whole reason for comparing is to figure out the effects of changing from one thing to another different thing. As an example, it's common to question the difference between using a BFG or Cooper 15" performance all season tire vs a 17" or 18" max performance summer tire or ultra high performance summer tire.
Thirdly. You posted this.
Originally Posted by PainfullySlow
The only caveat to this is that the newer, more modern tires have better construction methodologies than the tires of yesteryear and there have been improvements in both chemistry and construction that allow those 18" tires to ride a bit better than you would think. This does not mean that they ride better than their 15" counterparts. They don't.
You should have once again chose your wording better because a 15" counterpart is what exactly? A 15" wheel of the same dimensions or a 15" wheel that is from the same company and product line as the 18" wheel, meaning all else besides the hole size is the same. By my definition of counterpart, you are clearly saying that no 18" wheel will ride better than another different 15" wheel.
So, sure if you want to say that with all else equal a lower profile tire will ride rougher you can. It's probably true too. But, that is not what is happening in the real world, so it's really just a theoretical statement that doesn't mean much to the real world.
I also agree that saying people should not be posting opinions because no-one else needs to hear them crosses a line. This is a forum where EVERYONE is free to post their opinions on a technical subject. If you find it so tiring then don't open the thread.
Last edited by lionelhutz; 01-11-2018 at 08:14 PM.
Once again, this is an opinion and is, in the strictest definition, untrue. They were not 'made to race' as they came with all the DOT required equipment to make them safe for road use. It is not a dedicated thoroughbred race car.
Your opinion is that these make a good race car when properly modified. It is further your opinion that these cars should be driven aggressively.
Thank you for your opinion. It is not a 'shame' when someone else has a different opinion of what to do with their own car. Comments like that are why these threads turn into giant dick-swinging contests.
I can tell you that I will not be driving mine on a track, or aggressively at all because cars bore me. That is MY opinion and it is no more right or wrong than yours.
Never said it was anything but my opinion now did I? And in my opinion, as you like the word so much... they were, are and will be chevy's performance/race car for the public... far beyond say, a chevy sprint? yes, made to preform.. better brakes, more powerful engines, better suspension... hell, I though the Vega was a good looking car... did not change that it was a very low level car that was a pos in every way, almost... looked good people spent the extra cash for a performance car.... Now, can they be easily modified to actually compete on a race track? yes! can you do that with a Pinto,,, well with enough money sure anything is possible.. won't be anything left though that would resemble a Pinto... But with a Vette, it's relatively easy, it has an amazing base to start with....
15" tires... for you the "classic look" is what is important, cool. For me, and many others we love the body, but want more performance than what was available back in the day... you can take the classic argument to just about anything... roller lifters for example, did it come with them? no.. do they do better in every way with them? yes... so where does classic stop and ok mods start? The only reason they did not have 18" rims and tires in the day was the technology was not there, if it were it would have been used... ie C7.
So, there are some of us that like the classic look of the body, but would like it made the way GM would have done it today... ie retro-mod.... you see, my C3, and think how sad I messed it up,,,, cool:-)
I see yours and think how its like to drive a boat down the street (not looks, but feel) and how embarrassing it is to get skunked by a Honda Civvic,,, ... to his his own..
Just a thought... does not Corvette viper GT40 Ferrari and others of the like compeat for the fastest production “race car”
-There are hardly any options for the stock 27 inch tire height or taller (255/50r17 is it) with bigger wheels. Most tire options are shorter, and that's where you get the thin side wall look and bigger fender gaps (of course you can lower the car to close the fender gaps, but then you run into potential ground clearance and bottoming out problems).
Not true. I put this chart together a few years ago from Tire Rack's offerings. I don't think it has changed a whole lot since then.
But I'm sticking with 15" wheels. I like going old school. That's why I have a '73, not a '18. I'm intentionally sticking with old tech on mine, more fun and cheaper.
I am think about a new set from Cooker . You guys are not helping me to
Decide. My build date is 503. Maybe to old. Those tires are very expensive.
Buy your tires for your style of driving and tires that will enhance the performance needs for the vehicle you are installing them on.
If you drive the speed limits and cruise down the highway then 15" BFG's or Cookers may be the best tire for you, your vehicle and your performance needs.
If you like taller side wall tires with raised white letters and the classic look, it's your car, whatever you mount on the wheels is your choice. Do it and love it.
If you have a hi performance vehicle that you plan to drive aggressively, on the track or street, need 17" or 18" wheels, with hi speed rated tires, then buy the wheels and tires that meet or exceed your performance needs.
Everyone here has different taste, needs and wants for "THEIR" Corvette.
There is page after page of controversy on this subject throughout this thread.
Maybe it's time to give it a rest.
I am think about a new set from Cooker . You guys are not helping me to
Decide. My build date is 503. Maybe to old. Those tires are very expensive.
Yes, the build date was concern of mine and the couple of trusted tire shops told me not to worry about that, it's the condition of the tire that is the major concern of theirs. So are the sidewalls showing any cracks or excessive tread wear?
But, I am with you, old build dates are definitely a concern of mine.
01-11-2018, 02:21 PM
.
Maybe if everybody reads your post carefully we can put an end to the bickering....nah, that's probably hoping for too much.
people spent the extra cash for a performance car.... Now, can they be easily modified to actually compete on a race track? yes! can you do that with a Pinto,,, well with enough money sure anything is possible.. won't be anything left though that would resemble a Pinto... But with a Vette, it's relatively easy, it has an amazing base to start with.... 
