15" vs. 17" wheels, that big a difference?
#281
Le Mans Master
Why did you decide to use 45 on front and 50 on the back, why would 50 not work all way around? Was it the tires available? Were you concerned about rub on front, because I know lots of folks worry about 255/60/R15 rubbing, but mine don't....so why would I not use 50's all around?
#282
Advanced
I agree with you, but to get a 17 tire the same diameter as the 15 inch tires, basically 27" diameter, you have to go with 50's. The 255/45/17 is 26.0 inch in diameter, a full inch less.....and that is noticeable. I can see it very easily without measuring it. My guess is your tires are 255/50/17 which are 27.0 inch diameter, 10 inch wide.....exactly same as 255/60/R15, and obviously they will fill the wheel wells exactly the same. I think that was your point.
In reality the cars wheel openings were designed in 68 to have a 27.5 inch diameter tire, so once you get to a 26 inch tire, like the 45's, you are 1-1/2 inch smaller in diameter than the wheel well was designed to be concentric with that tire,......and again, it is very noticeable to me.
Now, look at the selection of 255/50/R17 tires, and there are not many performance tires out there. I guess the tire to buy would be Nitto NT555 G2 tires, summer performance tires.
There are many more for 255/45/R17, but they are too small in diameter for me. You might be able to hide it by lowering the car, but the smaller the outside diameter tires, you start to see the tire is not concentric with the wheel opening.
See the attached link to a very useful Tire Comparison Visualizer, it really tells the story well.
https://tiresize.com/calculator/
In reality the cars wheel openings were designed in 68 to have a 27.5 inch diameter tire, so once you get to a 26 inch tire, like the 45's, you are 1-1/2 inch smaller in diameter than the wheel well was designed to be concentric with that tire,......and again, it is very noticeable to me.
Now, look at the selection of 255/50/R17 tires, and there are not many performance tires out there. I guess the tire to buy would be Nitto NT555 G2 tires, summer performance tires.
There are many more for 255/45/R17, but they are too small in diameter for me. You might be able to hide it by lowering the car, but the smaller the outside diameter tires, you start to see the tire is not concentric with the wheel opening.
See the attached link to a very useful Tire Comparison Visualizer, it really tells the story well.
https://tiresize.com/calculator/
Some other combos in plus sizes that I’ve considered (wheel/tire combos get heavier and more expensive as you make your way down the list);
*255/50r17 rear (27.0 in tall), 235/55r16 front (26.1 in). This would be my best choice of plus size if I didn’t have so much HP; but stock to mild (up to about 300 whp) small blocks should do perfectly fine with this rear tire.
255/50r17 rear (27.0 in), 255/50r16 front (26.1 in) may require front fender trimming for older C3s.
255/50r17 rear (27.0 in), 245/50r17 front (26.6 in) may require front fender trimming for older C3s.
255/50r17 (27.0 in) all around. Will require front fender trimming for older C3s.
*295/40r18 rear (27.25 in), 255/45r17 front (26.1 in). May have clearance issues to deal with front and rear. Probably best affordable set-up to handle higher HP and hard cornering that will fit in-between non-flared fenders.
305/40r18 rear (27.7 in) big $, 255/45r17 front (26.1 in). May have clearance issues front and rear.
The only reason I would go with 18s instead of 17s is to get the wider (more needed traction for my set up-400whp) tires that 17s don’t offer.
Last edited by SHIFT A; 01-14-2018 at 11:11 PM.
#284
Burning Brakes
Rotating mass is defined as the moment of inertia and is the resistance to torque. The moment of inertia is essentially M X R-squared with the mass at the perimeter being the bigger (i.e. R-squared) factor. Tires of the same diameter are going to have pretty much the same amount of rubber at the periphery where R-squared is largest. The density of rubber is upwards of 0.9 ounces per cubic inch, whereas, on a quick search aluminum is 1.5 ounces per cubic inch i.e. heavier but not by much . Steel however is some 5 ounces/cubic inch which I'm guessing all 15" rally wheels are made of and that is a lot heavier
#285
I agree with you, but to get a 17 tire the same diameter as the 15 inch tires, basically 27" diameter, you have to go with 50's. The 255/45/17 is 26.0 inch in diameter, a full inch less.....and that is noticeable. I can see it very easily without measuring it. My guess is your tires are 255/50/17 which are 27.0 inch diameter, 10 inch wide.....exactly same as 255/60/R15, and obviously they will fill the wheel wells exactly the same. I think that was your point.
In reality the cars wheel openings were designed in 68 to have a 27.5 inch diameter tire, so once you get to a 26 inch tire, like the 45's, you are 1-1/2 inch smaller in diameter than the wheel well was designed to be concentric with that tire,......and again, it is very noticeable to me.
Now, look at the selection of 255/50/R17 tires, and there are not many performance tires out there. I guess the tire to buy would be Nitto NT555 G2 tires, summer performance tires.
There are many more for 255/45/R17, but they are too small in diameter for me. You might be able to hide it by lowering the car, but the smaller the outside diameter tires, you start to see the tire is not concentric with the wheel opening.
See the attached link to a very useful Tire Comparison Visualizer, it really tells the story well.
https://tiresize.com/calculator/
In reality the cars wheel openings were designed in 68 to have a 27.5 inch diameter tire, so once you get to a 26 inch tire, like the 45's, you are 1-1/2 inch smaller in diameter than the wheel well was designed to be concentric with that tire,......and again, it is very noticeable to me.
Now, look at the selection of 255/50/R17 tires, and there are not many performance tires out there. I guess the tire to buy would be Nitto NT555 G2 tires, summer performance tires.
There are many more for 255/45/R17, but they are too small in diameter for me. You might be able to hide it by lowering the car, but the smaller the outside diameter tires, you start to see the tire is not concentric with the wheel opening.
See the attached link to a very useful Tire Comparison Visualizer, it really tells the story well.
https://tiresize.com/calculator/
Last edited by Krystal; 01-15-2018 at 08:21 AM.
#286
Race Director
Just for fun ... I can't resist... .. not getting into it..
The calculation's are neat, but you must consider the location of the mass of the mounting flange and cross section of the flange between the beads for the tire, On a larger diameter rim the mass is moved outward ... never mind.
The early corvettes had F70 tires which were 26.4" to 26.7 (depending on manufacturer) diameter and 27" diameter for winter snow tires. Actual measurements.
The extra clearance in the wheel wells was to allow debris to pass through the wheel well without damaging the car at speed. (?).
For fun measure from the pivot point of the lower A arm to the center of the tire and multiply by the difference in weight (old vs new) and that is the inch/lbs change in force the suspension sees.
Again this is for fun...... I learned a lot when I was working on the run flat tires in the early to mid 70's.
The calculation's are neat, but you must consider the location of the mass of the mounting flange and cross section of the flange between the beads for the tire, On a larger diameter rim the mass is moved outward ... never mind.
The early corvettes had F70 tires which were 26.4" to 26.7 (depending on manufacturer) diameter and 27" diameter for winter snow tires. Actual measurements.
The extra clearance in the wheel wells was to allow debris to pass through the wheel well without damaging the car at speed. (?).
For fun measure from the pivot point of the lower A arm to the center of the tire and multiply by the difference in weight (old vs new) and that is the inch/lbs change in force the suspension sees.
Again this is for fun...... I learned a lot when I was working on the run flat tires in the early to mid 70's.
Last edited by BLUE1972; 01-15-2018 at 09:35 AM.
#288
Race Director
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Interesting. Maybe I don't sense it for some reason, but I never feel shaking and shuddering when pushing my car with Goodrich Radial TA 15 inch tires.....but it would only be fair if I could do back to back drives on same roads with a good 17 or 18 wheel tire combo. I am not disagreeing. As I have said, I might be able to stomach a 17 inch torque thrust wheel with a 27 inch tall tire. I have no interest in the smaller diameter rubber band looking wheel / tire combos.
I already have lots of suspension upgrades, including spreader bar, poly front sway bar bushings, factory rear sway bar, Bilsteins all around, VBP composite rear spring and Moog front coil springs.
I already have lots of suspension upgrades, including spreader bar, poly front sway bar bushings, factory rear sway bar, Bilsteins all around, VBP composite rear spring and Moog front coil springs.
It's hard to describe. With the better tires, the tire and suspension reaction to a bump is quick and short. Everything is well controlled. With the low performance tires it's drawn out more and the bump can even feels bigger than it really is.
You don't need to have a fully upgraded suspension. I noticed the improvement with cheapish gas shocks and upgraded swaybars as the only real changes from stock.
But, you do have a number of decent upgrades and would find better performance tires complement your suspension very well.
Last edited by lionelhutz; 01-15-2018 at 12:54 PM.
#289
Safety Car
Member Since: May 2004
Location: los altos hills california
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In my real life experience (not mathematical theory), I noticed a significant decrease in acceleration just from going up from my 17 Inch to 18 inch combo; it was the same wheel style (AR TT2) but the tire and wheel combo added 5.7 lbs per wheel and the tire was about an inch taller because I didn’t want the thin rubber band look and wanted more ground clearance. I know tire height plays a big part in acceleration too, but the added weight/rotation resistance also made a difference.
With your 18's and larger sidewalls you also lowered your overall gear ratio and that would affect acceleration.
Going off topic a bit; but if you have the time, could you please do some equations to help prove how a car’s weight effects cornering performance? (Seriously, not being sarcastic this time). I know that a lighter car will cause less sidewall flex. I also know that a heavier car will force the tire to the ground and increase traction that way, but I’m also pretty sure that a heavier car will lose traction quicker when pushed.
#290
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Just for fun ... I can't resist... .. not getting into it..
The calculation's are neat, but you must consider the location of the mass of the mounting flange and cross section of the flange between the beads for the tire, On a larger diameter rim the mass is moved outward ... never mind.
Again this is for fun...... I learned a lot when I was working on the run flat tires in the early to mid 70's.
The calculation's are neat, but you must consider the location of the mass of the mounting flange and cross section of the flange between the beads for the tire, On a larger diameter rim the mass is moved outward ... never mind.
Again this is for fun...... I learned a lot when I was working on the run flat tires in the early to mid 70's.
BTW: I have that spare downstairs somewhere, I think I will see what it weighs.
#291
Advanced
I didn't want the thin rubber band look I see with most 18 inch combos, but I wanted the added performance tire options that are available in 18 inch sizes, which is why I chose the taller 295/45r18 tire (28.25 inch tall). With my 17 inch (255/50r17 UHP) combo, I always have to hold back on the throttle too much (I don't like that feeling) so that I don't spin in place off the line, or fly off the side of the road on the curves; I've done some unintentional drifting which is not very fun.
I just cant make up my mind to sacrifice my preference of classic looks, a bit more ride comfort, ground clearance, and acceleration performance (as long as the hold grip) that the 15 inch wheel/tire combos offer, for greater handling performance going with bigger wheels/tires.
I am talking to more people about how the 15 inch drag radials handle the curves, and am hoping these will suit me better based on my needs/wants. I know I cant have both performance aspects to the max, and there will be some trading off.
Last edited by SHIFT A; 01-15-2018 at 02:22 PM.
#292
Le Mans Master
I am talking to more people about how the 15 inch drag radials handle the curves, and am hoping these will suit me better based on my needs/wants. I know I cant have both performance aspects to the max, and there will be some trading off.
Last edited by jb78L-82; 01-15-2018 at 02:04 PM.
#293
Advanced
I know nothing about drag radials other than they must have very soft rubber for maximum straight line traction and very soft sidewalls to aid in the traction department(ever see drag radials sidewalls flexing?) I highly doubt that a drag radial would even offer comparable side wall grip to a BFG TA street radial in terms of cornering, handling and steering response. Logic tells me that a straightline drag radial is probably going down the wrong road for a superior handling 15 inch street tire. You really need to look at road racing 15 inch tires, at the very least.
#294
Race Director
Yes Calculus and force dynamics.. I was an R&D engineer back in the day. Would have loved the new computers back then.
A slide rule was a PIA. Thank goodness for my HP calculator.
I now wonder how we did all the calculations when designing the run flats back in the 70's.
I agree it's deep ... and I'm not taking my slide ruler out ... .
A slide rule was a PIA. Thank goodness for my HP calculator.
I now wonder how we did all the calculations when designing the run flats back in the 70's.
I agree it's deep ... and I'm not taking my slide ruler out ... .
Last edited by BLUE1972; 01-15-2018 at 11:09 PM.
#295
Safety Car
Member Since: May 2004
Location: los altos hills california
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Yes Calculus and force dynamics.. I was an R&D engineer back in the day. Would have loved the new computers back then.
A slide rule was a PIA. Thank goodness for my HP calculator.
I now wonder how we did all the calculations when designing the run flats back in the 70's.
I agree it's deep ... and I'm not taking my slide ruler out ... .
A slide rule was a PIA. Thank goodness for my HP calculator.
I now wonder how we did all the calculations when designing the run flats back in the 70's.
I agree it's deep ... and I'm not taking my slide ruler out ... .
______________
Oh yeah, 51.5 #'s but I forgot to look at the tire size. Smaller to reduce weight and now I've left the spare off all together.
Last edited by ignatz; 01-15-2018 at 11:19 PM.
#296
Le Mans Master
275/40x17F 285/40x17R
IMO, perfect wheel gap.
IMO, perfect wheel gap.
Last edited by AirBusPilot; 01-17-2018 at 01:48 PM.
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#297
Le Mans Master
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2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
#298
Le Mans Master
From the best 255/60/15 tire thread currently on the forum first page:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-vs-price.html
https://www.performanceplustire.com/...60-15:ty:Tire/
This might be Nirvana for you 15 inch tires fans.........
V RATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.performanceplustire.com/...60-15:ty:Tire/
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-vs-price.html
https://www.performanceplustire.com/...60-15:ty:Tire/
This might be Nirvana for you 15 inch tires fans.........
V RATED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.performanceplustire.com/...60-15:ty:Tire/
Last edited by jb78L-82; 01-17-2018 at 08:26 PM.
#299
Le Mans Master
The following users liked this post:
AirBusPilot (01-18-2018)