Fed up driving automatic
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,375
Likes: 1,066
From: Virginia USA
IMO it's not a sports car without a manual transmission. Good choice.
I'm actually looking to find an M22 "Rock Crusher" right now just to up the fun factor over my stock Muncie. I want the noise!!!!
I'm actually looking to find an M22 "Rock Crusher" right now just to up the fun factor over my stock Muncie. I want the noise!!!!
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,905
Likes: 962
From: I tend to be leery of any guy who doesn't own a chainsaw or a handgun.
Hi guys,
Well, I’ll keep it short. I’m longing for to convert my automatic bb to manual. It’s even so bad I actually swap in an Muncie, rather than being stuck with my boring th400..
Yes I’ve looked in to tko transmission but when that piece is finally shipped over the puddle to Europe it easily adds 50-70% in tax costs and shipment.. A Muncie over here is both easy to find and cheep.
Well, here is were you, members, come in to play.
I need to know every part needed for this (Muncie) swap since I don’t have a clue besides that I need is pedal assembly, clutch, clutch fork,yoke,Crossmember,pressure plate ,shifter, bellhousing and z-bar.
Well, I’ll keep it short. I’m longing for to convert my automatic bb to manual. It’s even so bad I actually swap in an Muncie, rather than being stuck with my boring th400..
Yes I’ve looked in to tko transmission but when that piece is finally shipped over the puddle to Europe it easily adds 50-70% in tax costs and shipment.. A Muncie over here is both easy to find and cheep.
Well, here is were you, members, come in to play.
I need to know every part needed for this (Muncie) swap since I don’t have a clue besides that I need is pedal assembly, clutch, clutch fork,yoke,Crossmember,pressure plate ,shifter, bellhousing and z-bar.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 169
Likes: 43
From: Stockholm Sweden
Do you guys know if I need a new/shorten driveshaft & I guess the m20, 21 & 22 all needs different yoke?
is there any Muncie I should avoid or a preferred one, such as the m22?
is there any Muncie I should avoid or a preferred one, such as the m22?
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,375
Likes: 1,066
From: Virginia USA
Here is a good read:
Muncie 4 speeds
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,233
Likes: 657
From: Thunder Bay
Generally speaking the M20 had the wide ratio gear set (lower first gear). The M21 had the close ratio. I have owned both. I think the wide ratio is a better gearbox for the street. The close ratio was designed for spirited track driving where it is important to have a variety of gears available at speed, and off the line performance is less critical. I find driving a close ratio trans on the street you are slipping the clutch a little more than you should when taking off from a standing start.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,397
Likes: 649
From: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Right. I have the close ratio with 3.70 rear end gears and I find its not enough gear for smooth starts from a stop - the car frequently shudders when letting out the clutch from a stop and you have to rev the motor and slip the clutch quite a bit to avoid that. Makes the car less pleasant in normal driving.
Last edited by Priya; Dec 21, 2017 at 12:40 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 169
Likes: 43
From: Stockholm Sweden
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 169
Likes: 43
From: Stockholm Sweden
Right. I have the close ratio with 3.70 rear end gears and I find its not enough gear for smooth starts from a stop - the car frequently shudders when letting out the clutch from a stop and you have to rev the motor and slip the clutch quite a bit to avoid that. Makes the car less pleasant in normal driving.
So a M20 is to prefer then?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 169
Likes: 43
From: Stockholm Sweden
Not sure about your first question but the M21 and M22 both have the close ratio gear set but the M22 are straight cut gears which are stronger but make more noise. The M20 is the "regular" Muncie gear ratios.
Here is a good read:
Muncie 4 speeds
Here is a good read:
Muncie 4 speeds
Well I thought a th400 and a Muncie wasn’t the same length so therefore I would need to cut or get a new driveshaft when I do the swap? 
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,397
Likes: 649
From: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,451
Likes: 974
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
A couple of comments:
The M-21/Super T-10 close ratio had a 2.43 1 st gear like on my 78 L-82 with the 3.70 ratio:
2.43 x 3.70=8.99 or 9:1 which is pretty heft for a total ratio to get the car moving from a standstill. In fact, I never found with my OEM L-82 that I had to slip the clutch to get the car moving and never with the 355 L-82 now. I did notice that the gear ratios are too close between shifts as expected and I would prefer the wider ratios of the M-20 if i could. The M-21 1st gear with a 3.70 rear is almost useless in everyday driving due to the steep gear multiplication.
The wide Ratio M-20 came with a 2.64 first gear which would make 1st even more useless with the L-82 3.70 gears:
2.64X3.70=9.77....
However, the wider ratios I would prefer with the L-82
Stock L-48's came only with the wide ratio M-20 with 2.64 1st gear and either a 3.08 rear or 3.36 gears which is the reason for the 2.64 1st gear:
2.64 x 3.08=8.13 which is less the the 1st gear M-21 and the 3.70 gears above^^^
Or 2.64 x 3.36=8.87...again less than the 2.43 and the 3.70 gears.
The M-21 close ratio 2.43 and 3.70 gears results in MORE torque multiplication than the wide ratio and less numerical gears.
Hope that helps!!!!
The M-21/Super T-10 close ratio had a 2.43 1 st gear like on my 78 L-82 with the 3.70 ratio:
2.43 x 3.70=8.99 or 9:1 which is pretty heft for a total ratio to get the car moving from a standstill. In fact, I never found with my OEM L-82 that I had to slip the clutch to get the car moving and never with the 355 L-82 now. I did notice that the gear ratios are too close between shifts as expected and I would prefer the wider ratios of the M-20 if i could. The M-21 1st gear with a 3.70 rear is almost useless in everyday driving due to the steep gear multiplication.
The wide Ratio M-20 came with a 2.64 first gear which would make 1st even more useless with the L-82 3.70 gears:
2.64X3.70=9.77....
However, the wider ratios I would prefer with the L-82
Stock L-48's came only with the wide ratio M-20 with 2.64 1st gear and either a 3.08 rear or 3.36 gears which is the reason for the 2.64 1st gear:
2.64 x 3.08=8.13 which is less the the 1st gear M-21 and the 3.70 gears above^^^
Or 2.64 x 3.36=8.87...again less than the 2.43 and the 3.70 gears.
The M-21 close ratio 2.43 and 3.70 gears results in MORE torque multiplication than the wide ratio and less numerical gears.
Hope that helps!!!!
Last edited by jb78L-82; Dec 23, 2017 at 05:30 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,397
Likes: 649
From: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
The M-21/Super T-10 close ratio had a 2.43 1 st gear like on my 78 L-82 with the 3.70 ratio:
2.43 x 3.70=8.99 or 9:1 which is pretty heft for a total ratio to get the car moving from a standstill. In fact, I never found with my OEM L-82 that I had to slip the clutch to get the car moving
I'm always slipping the clutch with my M21 and 3.70 rear gears to get the car moving from a standstill. If I don't the car shudders off the line. . I'm looking forward to getting rid of it and installing my 5 speed with 3.37 first gear. 3.37 x 3.70=12.47:1
In my 70 Torino I had a 3.89:1 rear gear on a 22 inch tall tire which is the equivalent of a 4.95:1 rear gear with a 28" tall tire as typically found on a C3. With the 2.32:1 first gear on the Ford transmission that works out to a 11.47:1 overall first gear ratio which I found to be really nice for normal driving and an easy start from a stand still.
Last edited by Priya; Dec 23, 2017 at 06:45 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,451
Likes: 974
From: RI, Now Franklin/Nashville TN
To be honest it sounds like something is not quite right with your clutch since my bone stock L-82 M-21 could pull away from a dead stop barely above 600 RPM idle with no hesitation/shudder. Is your engine and cam stock as well as your clutch......????
I have seen non stock L-82's with aftermarket cams not like to pull away at idle without considerable revs....
I have seen non stock L-82's with aftermarket cams not like to pull away at idle without considerable revs....
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,397
Likes: 649
From: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
To be honest it sounds like something is not quite right with your clutch since my bone stock L-82 M-21 could pull away from a dead stop barely above 600 RPM idle with no hesitation/shudder. Is your engine and cam stock as well as your clutch......????
I have seen non stock L-82's with aftermarket cams not like to pull away at idle without considerable revs....
I have seen non stock L-82's with aftermarket cams not like to pull away at idle without considerable revs....
I was told when I bought the car the only unoriginal thing on it was the fiberglass rear spring. The owner had a receipt for a rebuilt engine on it that included a factory L82 cam as one of the replacement parts. It even had a working smog pump on it so I believe the L82 was stock as was the clutch. Having said I remember when I had the Torino with 3.00:1 gears and it seemed to pull away from a dead stop smoother than the Corvette does.
Last edited by Priya; Dec 23, 2017 at 08:50 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 119
From: Springfield Missouri
I agree with keeping a automatic trans(ever been a parade and had to keep the clutch peddle pushed in for 2 hours or more?? But really, an automatic is an easy way to go and still get performance, BUT if you really want a stick, why not go all the way and put in 5 or 6 speed and get the cruising ability also!!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 169
Likes: 43
From: Stockholm Sweden
Merry Christmas to my Vette friends!
One thing just crossed my mind reading another thread.
... My car is a matching # 70’ B.B LS5,two owners in California, then exported here, to Sweden, by the owner before me in 2004. That’s makes it a total of four owners including me. I got the original recipe from the car dealer and the first buyer. Also between owner nr two and Bengt, the guy who imported the car to Sweden. And etc. My question is -Would it be blasphemy to do this swap ??
One thing just crossed my mind reading another thread.
... My car is a matching # 70’ B.B LS5,two owners in California, then exported here, to Sweden, by the owner before me in 2004. That’s makes it a total of four owners including me. I got the original recipe from the car dealer and the first buyer. Also between owner nr two and Bengt, the guy who imported the car to Sweden. And etc. My question is -Would it be blasphemy to do this swap ??
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,397
Likes: 649
From: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Merry Christmas to my Vette friends!
One thing just crossed my mind reading another thread.
... My car is a matching # 70’ B.B LS5,two owners in California, then exported here, to Sweden, by the owner before me in 2004. That’s makes it a total of four owners including me. I got the original recipe from the car dealer and the first buyer. Also between owner nr two and Bengt, the guy who imported the car to Sweden. And etc. My question is -Would it be blasphemy to do this swap ??
One thing just crossed my mind reading another thread.
... My car is a matching # 70’ B.B LS5,two owners in California, then exported here, to Sweden, by the owner before me in 2004. That’s makes it a total of four owners including me. I got the original recipe from the car dealer and the first buyer. Also between owner nr two and Bengt, the guy who imported the car to Sweden. And etc. My question is -Would it be blasphemy to do this swap ??
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Here's a corvette specialty shop in Las Vegas I found on Craigs List.
Extreme Street Performance ESP
6275 Harrison Dr. Suite 20
Las Vegas, NV 89120
phone (702)332-8493
I've been to his shop and he has mostly C3 vettes as customers - his stalls where full of C3's. His CL ad says 74-92 corvettes and has quite a salvage yard for parts only.
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/pts/...418508272.html
And here's another vette salvage down the road in Victorville, CA. He's on CL a lot with corvette parts 1953-2000. I haven't been there though.
contact name: Joe call: (760) 954-8060
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/...360355636.html
I would contact them both for a complete parts conversion with pedals and crossmember. See what they can do. I think that would be better than buying one part at a time from the vendors.
Hope this helps.
Extreme Street Performance ESP
6275 Harrison Dr. Suite 20
Las Vegas, NV 89120
phone (702)332-8493
I've been to his shop and he has mostly C3 vettes as customers - his stalls where full of C3's. His CL ad says 74-92 corvettes and has quite a salvage yard for parts only.
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/pts/...418508272.html
And here's another vette salvage down the road in Victorville, CA. He's on CL a lot with corvette parts 1953-2000. I haven't been there though.
contact name: Joe call: (760) 954-8060
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/...360355636.html
I would contact them both for a complete parts conversion with pedals and crossmember. See what they can do. I think that would be better than buying one part at a time from the vendors.
Hope this helps.