I'm using that same cam with a 112 lobe separation.

 

Cast Howards...5 driving seasons now and still perfect. No special distributor gear (Mine the OEM gear) and stock fuel pump pushrod as well. Nothing special at all with the howards roller and this 6 years ago when all the nonsense was out there about using special distributor gears and special fuel pump pushrods DESPITE howards saying that neither was necessary.

Also, I do like gofast's cam button eliminator procedure as described above^^^^ earlier BUT with the SBC V8 C3 water pump DIRECTLY against my stock timing cover, there is zero chance of the cam walking forward or the timing cover flexing once the cam button is installed . I just dimpled the stock OEM timing cover to accommodate minimal play as specified by howards and it was DONE. Plus with a double roller comp cams timing chain, no chance the cam can walk forward......

 

Roller cams all day. I chose to go with Blue Print heads instead of AFR and spent the difference on a retro roller kit. I'm pleased with the decision and it's been about 3 years.

I went XR276HR which gives great street torque. XR282HR for slightly more top end, but at the cost of 30+lbs of torque on the bottom half. With my T56 and 3.36 gears it works well.

I still want to re-gear to go faster and make more use of the 6th gear, but I don't NEED to.

 

A modern factory designed EFI shouldn't be brought into to a self learning aftermarket EFI vs Carb discussion imo, the aftermarket EFI Systems need careful tuning to perform as well as a Carb in a Drag Race application and I imagine even more important for the demands of a Road Course.

I'm not biased, I'm working on a Hilborn 8 stack using outdated Accel Gen 7 stuff. I should end up with major cool factor anyway

 

PRO for HR: No break-in to mate the lobes and lifters and you can pretty much get all of the essential parts (except seals/gaskets). I got the Comp HR conversion kit that included the cam/lifters, fresh timing set, springs, keepers/locks, correct length push rods and better valve seals for about $1,100.

This same kit is around $950 at Summit (see my signature). I added Ultra Pro Magnum rockers (1.52:1), cylinder head refresh, new oil pan/pump, intake and head fasteners, etc. while at it.

 

Roller is better, flat tappet is cheaper. The end.

 

Indeed. Especially when you don't use it the first time.

 

Cheaper to install?

Sure......cheaper over time?

Nope! Not in my experience.


I'll always make the argument that the choice of a flat tappet cam over a roller is a CLASSIC example of the expression "penny wise/ pound foolish"

I can't think of any situation where I'd go with the older design.

OK, maybe just ....ONE!

If I had a car with the flat tappet cam and I want to sell it but I've got a grenaded lobe. I could see putting in a new cam and lifters as the cheap way out to sell the car.....but if I'm keeping it for myself.....that thinking goes away.

 

Just FYI....but in 2019...NASCAR still runs a flat tappet cam with EFI!!!
Amazing to me

Jebby

 

'Pay me now or pay me later'.

 

Bingo...
Been there DONE THAT...
If I build an engine...
I run CROWER solid rollers custom designed by Dave Crower- and run the HIPPO lifters - (Hi Pressure Pin Oiled) which people say are the only ones which survive on the street.
$1600 for the entire set up, cam, lifters, distributor gear, cam button, pushrods, springs, titanium retainers, locks, etc

When I wanted a cam to perform the best - I called multiple companies and they asked me what I wanted... the order takers didn't ask anything about the heads... how can you design a cam without knowing the flow numbers on the heads?
A fellow drag racer suggested Crower...
after speaking with Dave Crower I was fully at ease when he asked me for a list of numbers he needed in order to design a cam which would perform the best for my situation...

He required the flow numbers from .100 -.700 in .100 intervals -
Cubic inches,
intake runner volume,
Compression ratio,
rear end, trans first gear ratio, tire height.
car weight -
I asked HP... he asked do you want something that will pull a dyno number? Or do you want an engine which may not post the number but in a car will out pull it in every situation on the road?
He also understands seat pressures and not pounding the valves into the heads on these older heads... he lets the valve down quickly but not to the seat... the very tail of the ramp onto the seat is extremely slow and easy, which also keeps from having to run extreme spring pressures because they are less likely to bounce by being SNAPPED SHUT.

Anyway the first engine I had him do was a 12.5 to one 302 with stock intake, the cam was a 636 gross lift solid roller with a 270 280 duration and a 112 lobe separation. Made 518HP at 6875- and 350 ft# of torque by just over 3000 RPM... and idled with 15" vacuum at 1000rpm.

 

I've got an 82 Vette. I've owned it for 5 years, probably only put 10k miles on it over those 5 years. I want a cam. I don't want to spend any more money than I have to because I know I won't own the car for another 5 years, which means I won't even put another 10k miles on it. The cam and headers are the only mods I want to do to the car period. Would you go roller in this scenario? NOPE. Why spend money you don't have to? FWIW, all my other cars have rollers in them, including the 383 that I'm building for my 81, which I plan to keep for years to come. You are not telling me anything I don't already know, and have known for 30+ years.

 

Regarding CUP ... Nascar mandated EFI for season 2012 ... Roller Lifters-cams mandated for season 2015

busch & trucks had rollers for many seasons prior to that ... as a cost-limiting consideration.
Even the lightest bespoke roller lifters are much heavier than the lightest bespoke flat tappets ... rollers require comparatively heavier springs to control lifter launch. But their roller cams can last much longer than the Cup flat tappets ... the Cup flat tappet cams & lifters were ridiculously expensive to design and produce and they were never reused and they did fail.

Seems Cup motors USED to turn nearly 11K; a bit more sometimes ?? Not since rollers.

Seems in same season same track, the Flat Tappet CUP motors turned higher Revs than their busch & truck stable mates.

Nowadays, seems they're all turning about same.

FYI ... now-defunct ASA cars mandated EFI before nascar ... ASA late models used to "draw" for ECM as in a lottery ... dunno how nascar controls that today.
( I took a rather minor role prepping some cars shipped overseas for the below race ... year-or-two-old cup & busch rollers retrofitted w/ then quite new LS3 variants ... I didn't go to SA ... would've liked to've seen present-day SA gov't romancing a bunch of good ol' boys ... I'm told it was a hoot!:

ASA Free State 500

On January 31, 2010, ASA Racing made history as the first American sanctioning body to race in the Republic of South Africa. The ASA Free State 500 took place at the Phakisa Freeway located in Welkom, Free State, South Africa. John Mickel from the United Kingdom passed Toni McCray from California on the last lap to win the 207-lap (500km) event. Marc Davis was third with Rick McCray in fourth. South Africa's Johann Spies rounded out the top-five. Spies drove with an electronic fuel-injected engine in the event.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...ed_Association

 

Yeah, I can get behind that thinking easily enough.

Then again.......5 years? Why drive a "dog" for 5 years?

I'm curious as to why you'd own both an '81 and an '82?

It's your money and your time........but I fail to understand why you own two very similar cars. Seems like each suffers for the effort and money put into the other.

What am I missing here? Seems like you should go with the cheaper cam in that car you don't see owning much longer and unload it as soon as your finished getting it ready to sell.

 

I agree.

Today there are almost no good reasons to use a flat tappet cam beyond the idea of a really cheap solution to the failed cam in a motor you don't want to rebuild entirely. Though it does seem to me that the idea of tossing in that new cam and lifters into an engine that saw the remains of a "wiped" lobe swimming in the oil could very quickly turn into good money tossed in to a rat hole when a bearing let's go after the repair.

For total rebuilds?

I can appreciate that there are cars out there with their original engines and they come from an era where that actually adds to the end value placed on the car........but for anything built in the era my '79 comes from.....the original engine isn't a value adder anyway so I'm free to go for the easy supper affordable power advantage a roller cam offers.

 

Because I got a smoking good deal on the 82 from a friend who was in a financial hardship. If I sold it today, even for a great price, I'd still make a profit. I also drive the car for pleasure while I am doing a frame off restoration on my 81, which I am in no hurry to complete. You sure are narrow minded in your thinking. Any more questions?

On top of all that, my 15 year old son is interested in the 82. I may just give it him to drive (when he turns 16 later this year), until he can afford what he wants.

 

Sure just one more. I asked an honest question......any particular reason you'd jump so quickly in to insult me?

 

So you don't think there were any insults in your posts? Go back and re-read your posts....

Clearly you didn't consider all the possibly scenarios when you made your broad conclusion that roller cams are the only way to go for every application. You need to understand that everyone's needs are different. If flat tappet cams were useless then don't you think Comp cams (as well as other companies) would quit selling them? OBVIOUSLY that is not the case. There is still strong enough demand to keep producing them. The executives don't keep a product line around just because.....

Listen, I don't have time for this..... And what cars I own and why is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You keep your business to yourself and stay out of mine. I'm done with this thread....

 

 

You do seem very easily "triggered" so that's probably a good idea.

As to what cars you own and why......I thought your answer was actually pretty informative and made prefect sense. I'm not sure why you volunteered it if you wanted to "keep your business to yourself".