roller cams
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Regarding CUP ... Nascar mandated EFI for season 2012 ... Roller Lifters-cams mandated for season 2015
busch & trucks had rollers for many seasons prior to that ... as a cost-limiting consideration.
Even the lightest bespoke roller lifters are much heavier than the lightest bespoke flat tappets ... rollers require comparatively heavier springs to control lifter launch. But their roller cams can last much longer than the Cup flat tappets ... the Cup flat tappet cams & lifters were ridiculously expensive to design and produce and they were never reused and they did fail.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,666
Likes: 289
From: Spring Park MN
Anyone who thinks roller lifters are a newer invention needs to look back at the history of engines. Nobody knows for sure who invented and first used them, but it is known that by 1882 there were thousands of stationary engines being built and their valves were actuated by roller lifters. Roller lifters have been around pretty much as long as piston engines have. Even Harley Davidson, who many don't think of as technically advanced, has been using roller lifters since the early 1920's. The only reason that flat tappet cams were ever developed was for cost cutting. Flat tappet cams and lifters don't do anything better than roller cams and lifters except cost less to produce.
Mike
Mike
Last edited by v2racing; Mar 9, 2019 at 12:15 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
x2 FT lifter or cam failure is a lot less destructive than a roller if you catch it early imo
Have had a few go bad, stuck another in and kept DD even with worn bearings for years.
Look at all the failures in late model GM lsx engines rollers arent magic. Think crappy quality is the culprit not the oil every day we see posted about.
A good quality FT cam can go 200k easy. Key word being quality (hard to find). For a mild st build I wouldnt hesitate to use one
Have had a few go bad, stuck another in and kept DD even with worn bearings for years.
Look at all the failures in late model GM lsx engines rollers arent magic. Think crappy quality is the culprit not the oil every day we see posted about.
A good quality FT cam can go 200k easy. Key word being quality (hard to find). For a mild st build I wouldnt hesitate to use one
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 10,590
Likes: 2,064
From: Golden Colorado
So, let me ask this,
Comp Cams has a process to harden the cam, I believe its called nitrating, but not sure if that is the correct name for the process or not. It costs almost as much as the cost of the cam. My question is has anyone ever used this on a long term basis? If so did it overcome the "going flat" that non hardened cams suffer from? Does it require the use of special lifters?
Thanks
Comp Cams has a process to harden the cam, I believe its called nitrating, but not sure if that is the correct name for the process or not. It costs almost as much as the cost of the cam. My question is has anyone ever used this on a long term basis? If so did it overcome the "going flat" that non hardened cams suffer from? Does it require the use of special lifters?
Thanks
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Wish they would use decent cores to start with then they wouldnt need it . Just an opinion and could be very wrong.
What gets me is some cheap but old names make ft cams that seemingl last forever, maybe theres an intensity level that tears them up (time to go bigger or stick a roller in there?)
What gets me is some cheap but old names make ft cams that seemingl last forever, maybe theres an intensity level that tears them up (time to go bigger or stick a roller in there?)
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,360
Likes: 382
From: Plano TX
That's exactly what's happening. Old FT cams had slow ramps. But people wanted more power and that requires ever faster ramps. I put a mild Crane FT cam into a Camaro I once owned back in 1990. My dad now has the car and that cam is still fine after all these years. But the reason it's fine is that it has very slow ramps.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Maybe a little of both?
When I was young and broke (now old and broke!) guys gave me a hard time for using Elgin, PAW "SSI" cams, couldnt afford an Isky but they still ran strong and never burned up. On one particular 327 the cam bearings were so worn they were all copper, car never skipped a beat! We used to search for GM lifters but none of the others had problems either. No special oil used either. A few extra lbs of torque is NOT worth killing a new valve job, stems etc.
Fell for that myself on the last 2 custom cams (roller) it cost a small fortune to fix it. jmo custom cams are a waste of money unless its a real specific applicaitons, bazillions of grinds that work have been around for decades.
When I was young and broke (now old and broke!) guys gave me a hard time for using Elgin, PAW "SSI" cams, couldnt afford an Isky but they still ran strong and never burned up. On one particular 327 the cam bearings were so worn they were all copper, car never skipped a beat! We used to search for GM lifters but none of the others had problems either. No special oil used either. A few extra lbs of torque is NOT worth killing a new valve job, stems etc.
Fell for that myself on the last 2 custom cams (roller) it cost a small fortune to fix it. jmo custom cams are a waste of money unless its a real specific applicaitons, bazillions of grinds that work have been around for decades.
Last edited by cv67; Mar 9, 2019 at 03:28 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
virtually all IRON cores... way back then and today ... no matter if it's a melling, sealed power, comp, crane, jones etc etc ... virtually all iron cores made by same foundary company ... CWC aka CWC Textron.