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If the OP actually found his problem, he likely won't post it...because it is cable or connection related.
And to the poster who suggested putting a starter in a 250* oven.... What the he!! do you think a Corvette engine compartment is???? The starter is ALWAYS right there by the exhaust down-pipe. If you don't think it gets to 250*F there, you need another thermometer.
P.S. Stick your starter in the oven. Then figure out how to get it back in the car to try it out without having it cool down.
Last edited by 7T1vette; May 30, 2019 at 01:37 AM.
Watch dash as car starts normally. I forget which, but some things go off as you turn key to crank. Look for the same things to happen when you turn key and get no click. That will tell you if ign switch is activated correctly. There are 2 circuits in a starter. Big wire to top of solenoid and smaller wire to S terminal. If no ground, neither will work. The S terminal is one side of a very big relay. The relay has to shove a metal washer against the 2 big terminals firing the starter. But FIRST, it has to pull a lever driving the bendix gears into the flywheel. That click is the solenoid hammer hitting bottom. No click means insufficient current through the S windings to create a big enough magnetic field to pull that hammer against that drag and 2 springs. Now a cheater method to test S circuit is a piece of wire about 4 feet long hooked to S terminal. Loop it above stuff so it doesn't drag on the ground and throw the end through passenger window. Go for a ride. Shut car off-preferrably back home. Hit key. No click? Touch wire to positive battery terminal. Got click now?
Last edited by derekderek; May 30, 2019 at 07:21 AM.
If the OP actually found his problem, he likely won't post it...because it is cable or connection related.
And to the poster who suggested putting a starter in a 250* oven.... What the he!! do you think a Corvette engine compartment is???? The starter is ALWAYS right there by the exhaust down-pipe. If you don't think it gets to 250*F there, you need another thermometer.
P.S. Stick your starter in the oven. Then figure out how to get it back in the car to try it out without having it cool down.
Richard was simply using a "Figure of Speech".
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; May 30, 2019 at 08:19 AM.
Will wrapping your starter with DEI exhaust wrap keep heat in the starter or keep heat from the starter coming from exhaust manifold? In other words, is wrapping the starter defeating the purpose of trying to keep the heat down on the starter? Thanks ('72 small block, starter is OEM and rebuilt) I used this on my exhaust and still have a bit left over
wait..you have wrapped your headers and are still having this issue?
You probably have other problems. Bad cables, bad switches, hell maybe bad starter..time to do some testing. Id start by driving the car for an hour then going to parts store and have them bring their machine out to test the starter while its on the car. Its free
Will wrapping your starter with DEI exhaust wrap keep heat in the starter or keep heat from the starter coming from exhaust manifold? In other words, is wrapping the starter defeating the purpose of trying to keep the heat down on the starter? Thanks ('72 small block, starter is OEM and rebuilt) I used this on my exhaust and still have a bit left over
I've used the GM special nuts on the solenoid, heat wraps, heat shields, you name it.
My headers are just too close to a factory starter.
It gave me problems when the temperature was at it's hottest in the Summer.
FINALLY what I did was buy a small gear reduction starter. Problems solved.
Now in your case Kansas you just got your starter rebuilt.
The shield that I recommend is like the ones posted by Richard454 in his post above.
I don't disagree that you are experiencing electrical issues related to the grounds.
If you don't have a ground cable from the frame to the starter you should install one. It came from the factory that way.
Craig
Last edited by Street Rat; May 30, 2019 at 12:44 PM.
Did you figure out what was causing the "no click"
Nice quote "wow"
Not yet, lots of 'other' things in life to contend with sometimes get the in the way, but thanks. What I plan on doing is checking those grounds, maybe just replacing them cause behind the cable cover you don't know what the rest of the cable looks like. I did forget one (possibly) big piece of the picture: It doesn't always fail to start. For instance, I just took it for a 20 mile journey and when I got home it started fine. Quite a few times. So have to look for loose connections as well. I really appreciate the help and comments....well, most of them anyway.
I really appreciate the help and comments....well, most of them anyway.
Yep.
That guy is a know it all.
He spews too much knowledge for our feeble minds to comprehend I guess?
I am here for help not to be criticized and ridiculed.
I don't "know it all". But, in later life you will find that being "politically correct" in communicating what you know to someone who needs it is a total waste of time and effort. If the info is ignored...oh well. If it is considered and used to evaluate viability toward solving the OP's issue, the manner of transmission is a non-issue.
My philosophy: Try to give the best advice possible. If the poster doesn't want to take advantage of 40 years of C3 experience, it's his/her loss. I am constantly amazed at the folks who are having real problems and ask for help....and then when offered that help, refuse to try it out because they "just know that can't be the problem". He!!, if they knew what the problem was, they wouldn't be asking for help, would they???
Last edited by 7T1vette; May 30, 2019 at 01:27 PM.
Thanks for the update, it's unlikely that a heat soak problem would be this intermittent. The advice I posted for the Voltage checks would be very telling if you can do them. If you get the numbers while it is working and then when it's not, chances are we can nail the root cause, either way post up what you find, it may help the next guy.
Control Circuit intermittent problems suck (I do Field Support for a living so I feel your pain).
My 68 has some interesting wiring fixes (bubba stuff, like 14 gauge white solid and twist wire nuts to fix melted charging circuit wire etc.) so it wouldn't surprise me to hear you found a bubba fix that is now failing.
wait..you have wrapped your headers and are still having this issue?
You probably have other problems. Bad cables, bad switches, hell maybe bad starter..time to do some testing. Id start by driving the car for an hour then going to parts store and have them bring their machine out to test the starter while its on the car. Its free
Watch dash as car starts normally. I forget which, but some things go off as you turn key to crank. Look for the same things to happen when you turn key and get no click. That will tell you if ign switch is activated correctly. There are 2 circuits in a starter. Big wire to top of solenoid and smaller wire to S terminal. If no ground, neither will work. The S terminal is one side of a very big relay. The relay has to shove a metal washer against the 2 big terminals firing the starter. But FIRST, it has to pull a lever driving the bendix gears into the flywheel. That click is the solenoid hammer hitting bottom. No click means insufficient current through the S windings to create a big enough magnetic field to pull that hammer against that drag and 2 springs. Now a cheater method to test S circuit is a piece of wire about 4 feet long hooked to S terminal. Loop it above stuff so it doesn't drag on the ground and throw the end through passenger window. Go for a ride. Shut car off-preferrably back home. Hit key. No click? Touch wire to positive battery terminal. Got click now?
This is interesting. I will be trying these things in the next few days and report back.
From: Arizona - If you don’t know CFI, STOP proliferating the myths around it...
One thing to check is the battery output, it needs a solid 12.4v to turn over the starter. Have you tried jumping it when it was hot and won't crank at all? If you can jump it and it starts right up, it's more likely the battery not being able to put out enough to engage the starter when hot. I have a mini high torque perm mag type and if my battery gets too low mine does the same thing when hot, nothing, not even a click as if the battery was completely dead. It will jump or wait until the starter is a little cooler and fires right up. If I replace the battery, it will work just fine for another three years or so. The AZ heat destroys batteries no matter what in the summer months. Just something to think about since I didn't see you mention it.
One thing to check is the battery output, it needs a solid 12.4v to turn over the starter. Have you tried jumping it when it was hot and won't crank at all? If you can jump it and it starts right up, it's more likely the battery not being able to put out enough to engage the starter when hot. I have a mini high torque perm mag type and if my battery gets too low mine does the same thing when hot, nothing, not even a click as if the battery was completely dead. It will jump or wait until the starter is a little cooler and fires right up. If I replace the battery, it will work just fine for another three years or so. The AZ heat destroys batteries no matter what in the summer months. Just something to think about since I didn't see you mention it.
Thanks. I haven't done that but have checked the battery when this happens and there is plenty of power there, actually got a new battery in March 2018 thinking that would help but alas.
Maybe I can remove that forward bracket from starter to block and get to that S term without removing starter. Wish they had put that terminal of the 9 o'clock position instead of the 3 o'clock. Oh well.
I was able to move with my fingers the connection at the horn relay, wasn't really loose but it worth tightening with a new nut and lock washer. Perhaps that will help. The ground to motor mount is very good, looks new actually. The cable to the positive on the solenoid is new also, replaced during some interior work. Don't remember if I ever checked the battery ground, will do that.
I was able to resolve the problem of unpredictable non starting. I just can't be specific as to what the solution was, as my actions were to (re) tighten all electrical connections and clean up grounds. I also replaced the connections and a 30 amp fuse that was put in place of the blown/melted fusible link at the horn relay many years ago. Haven't had any problems since. Thanks for all the suggestions; sorry it's taken me so long to get back to everyone.
Grounds. Almost always the cause. Same thing on my 73 454. Was going to buy a high torque starter...figured I’d check the grounds and I was missing the big ground to the block. Replaced it and life is good and always starts, even when really hot.
Last edited by davidbii; Aug 27, 2019 at 01:36 AM.
ENJOY!
