71 C3 wiper door issue...
11-07-2020, 06:43 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
71 C3 wiper door issue...
Hey Guys - I participated in an NCRS Judging event a couple weeks ago and unbelievably my 71 LT-1 got a Second Flight award. But here's the downside: during the wiper check in the judging process, the judge was having me go back & forth with the wipers, on and off, etc. The wiper door is now stuck halfway up and will not stow. The wipers no longer work - I just hear a click noise when the switch is activated.
Kind of a big disappointment since I routinely drive the car a couple hundred miles to Carlisle and 125 miles to Richmond for the latest NCRS event. Wipers are good to have.
I notice a hissing noise coming from the wiper door vacum cannister (the thing on the passenger side that looks like a mini headlight vac cannister) when the engine is turned off. Not sure if i never rally noticed it before or what.
Any ideas on what to check???
Marlon
Kind of a big disappointment since I routinely drive the car a couple hundred miles to Carlisle and 125 miles to Richmond for the latest NCRS event. Wipers are good to have.
I notice a hissing noise coming from the wiper door vacum cannister (the thing on the passenger side that looks like a mini headlight vac cannister) when the engine is turned off. Not sure if i never rally noticed it before or what.
Any ideas on what to check???
Marlon
11-08-2020, 12:19 PM
#3
Team Owner
Sue NCRS for damaging your wiper system. Then ask them who they wish to pay to fix them.....
The following 4 users liked this post by Marlon:
11-10-2020, 03:33 PM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
11-12-2020, 12:49 AM
#6
Team Owner
Hmmmm..... Odd how that happened during NCRS judging.....
11-12-2020, 12:31 PM
#7
The judge left the rubber plug out of the end of my wiper door actuator - (removal of the plug is necessary in order to judge the wiper arms and wiper well without cranking the car) and mine was hissing like crazy after one show.
11-13-2020, 06:24 AM
#8
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Funny that NCRS judges know everything about Corvettes, but yet most of the have never turned a wrench. What they THINK they know came from a book and not getting their hands dirty.
11-13-2020, 09:31 AM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
although I have met one or two that have significant knowledge based on wrenching. However...as I take my car thru more NCRS judging events I will pay very close attention to what the judges say and write on my scoresheets. Based on my recent experience, I want to be sure that any deductions I take are warranted and substantiated in the “book”.
Speaking of “book”, I gotta believe that the Assembly Manual can take precedence where the 1970-1972 5th Edition(I realize the newer version is out, I have ordered it), Corvette Technical Information Manual and Judging Guide book is not entirely correct or does not allow for truth or accuracy.
For example: the Judging Manual indicates that guillotine clamps are used on 1971 exhaust pipes. It even shows a photo of one supposedly used on 70-71 cars. I’ve researched that with folks like Rich Fortier, etc. and likely that is not the case. The 1971 Assembly Manual does Not indicate not depict that type of clamp. The part number and clamp pictured in the Assy Manual (UPC 8, pages A2-A3) is for the more modern clamp that supposedly started being used in 1972. The guillotine clamp looks kind of 50-60s technology if you really think about it. Stuff like that.
11-13-2020, 11:07 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
😃👍
although I have met one or two that have significant knowledge based on wrenching. However...as I take my car thru more NCRS judging events I will pay very close attention to what the judges say and write on my scoresheets. Based on my recent experience, I want to be sure that any deductions I take are warranted and substantiated in the “book”.
Speaking of “book”, I gotta believe that the Assembly Manual can take precedence where the 1970-1972 5th Edition(I realize the newer version is out, I have ordered it), Corvette Technical Information Manual and Judging Guide book is not entirely correct or does not allow for truth or accuracy.
For example: the Judging Manual indicates that guillotine clamps are used on 1971 exhaust pipes. It even shows a photo of one supposedly used on 70-71 cars. I’ve researched that with folks like Rich Fortier, etc. and likely that is not the case. The 1971 Assembly Manual does Not indicate not depict that type of clamp. The part number and clamp pictured in the Assy Manual (UPC 8, pages A2-A3) is for the more modern clamp that supposedly started being used in 1972. The guillotine clamp looks kind of 50-60s technology if you really think about it. Stuff like that.
although I have met one or two that have significant knowledge based on wrenching. However...as I take my car thru more NCRS judging events I will pay very close attention to what the judges say and write on my scoresheets. Based on my recent experience, I want to be sure that any deductions I take are warranted and substantiated in the “book”.
Speaking of “book”, I gotta believe that the Assembly Manual can take precedence where the 1970-1972 5th Edition(I realize the newer version is out, I have ordered it), Corvette Technical Information Manual and Judging Guide book is not entirely correct or does not allow for truth or accuracy.
For example: the Judging Manual indicates that guillotine clamps are used on 1971 exhaust pipes. It even shows a photo of one supposedly used on 70-71 cars. I’ve researched that with folks like Rich Fortier, etc. and likely that is not the case. The 1971 Assembly Manual does Not indicate not depict that type of clamp. The part number and clamp pictured in the Assy Manual (UPC 8, pages A2-A3) is for the more modern clamp that supposedly started being used in 1972. The guillotine clamp looks kind of 50-60s technology if you really think about it. Stuff like that.
Hi Marlon. FWIW, I'd like to make a couple comments on your points:
Judges should not touch your car during the judging process. You should be asked to do anything that they feel is needed to properly inspect function, originality, condition, etc. If you disagree, you should have that discussion with the judge at that time. I imagine this judge asked you to manually cycle the door was because otherwise, the car needs to be running (building vacuum) and your car may have been indoors at the time, making for lots of exhaust fumes if all cars are started to cycle things like wiper doors, headlight doors, etc.
Any deduct taken by a judge should be clearly noted on the judging sheet as to why the deduct was taken. As well, the deduction should be verbally explained to you. If you disagree with the deduct and/or the reason for deduct, you should voice your concern and raise it to the team leader (on site) for resolution. This needs to be done then. Later, after the event is over (I think) is too late.
I don't recommend you take the AIM's information over the Judging Guide. There were some deviations at the factory and the Judging Guide is developed by knowledgeable people and their first hand observation of numerous cars and documented examples of known-original cars. The direction of inboard fasteners for the front spoiler is a good example. I installed mine as per the AIM and later learned that the factory always ran them in the opposite direction because it was easier and made no difference in function. Additionally, the AIM reflects how the model year ended. Any engineering changes made throughout the model year are captured in the AIM and any info prior to that change will not be captured. This is where each car's VIN comes into play. Research has tied engineering changes to approximate VIN's. For example, if a part is changed or eliminated, the changed part will be in the AIM but the old part will not.
Judging isn't for all of us. It can certainly be a source of stress and frustration for the owner. It can also provide you with good insight on details of your car and how the factory built it back in the day. Evidently, you had some interest in judging, thereby learning more about your car. Use the experience for the good that came from it.
Lastly, I chuckled a bit when I read what caused your wiper door cycling to fail. The same exact thing happened to me just two days before I had my car judged. I had to search frantically to find a replacement and get it installed in time. A lousy design, the weather boot does a poor job of protecting the piston. The plastic construction is poor as well. It's also tough to get to the fasteners on this too, yes?
11-13-2020, 12:22 PM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hi Marlon. FWIW, I'd like to make a couple comments on your points:
Judges should not touch your car during the judging process. You should be asked to do anything that they feel is needed to properly inspect function, originality, condition, etc. If you disagree, you should have that discussion with the judge at that time. I imagine this judge asked you to manually cycle the door was because otherwise, the car needs to be running (building vacuum) and your car may have been indoors at the time, making for lots of exhaust fumes if all cars are started to cycle things like wiper doors, headlight doors, etc.
Any deduct taken by a judge should be clearly noted on the judging sheet as to why the deduct was taken. As well, the deduction should be verbally explained to you. If you disagree with the deduct and/or the reason for deduct, you should voice your concern and raise it to the team leader (on site) for resolution. This needs to be done then. Later, after the event is over (I think) is too late.
I don't recommend you take the AIM's information over the Judging Guide. There were some deviations at the factory and the Judging Guide is developed by knowledgeable people and their first hand observation of numerous cars and documented examples of known-original cars. The direction of inboard fasteners for the front spoiler is a good example. I installed mine as per the AIM and later learned that the factory always ran them in the opposite direction because it was easier and made no difference in function. Additionally, the AIM reflects how the model year ended. Any engineering changes made throughout the model year are captured in the AIM and any info prior to that change will not be captured. This is where each car's VIN comes into play. Research has tied engineering changes to approximate VIN's. For example, if a part is changed or eliminated, the changed part will be in the AIM but the old part will not.
Judging isn't for all of us. It can certainly be a source of stress and frustration for the owner. It can also provide you with good insight on details of your car and how the factory built it back in the day. Evidently, you had some interest in judging, thereby learning more about your car. Use the experience for the good that came from it.
Lastly, I chuckled a bit when I read what caused your wiper door cycling to fail. The same exact thing happened to me just two days before I had my car judged. I had to search frantically to find a replacement and get it installed in time. A lousy design, the weather boot does a poor job of protecting the piston. The plastic construction is poor as well. It's also tough to get to the fasteners on this too, yes?
Judges should not touch your car during the judging process. You should be asked to do anything that they feel is needed to properly inspect function, originality, condition, etc. If you disagree, you should have that discussion with the judge at that time. I imagine this judge asked you to manually cycle the door was because otherwise, the car needs to be running (building vacuum) and your car may have been indoors at the time, making for lots of exhaust fumes if all cars are started to cycle things like wiper doors, headlight doors, etc.
Any deduct taken by a judge should be clearly noted on the judging sheet as to why the deduct was taken. As well, the deduction should be verbally explained to you. If you disagree with the deduct and/or the reason for deduct, you should voice your concern and raise it to the team leader (on site) for resolution. This needs to be done then. Later, after the event is over (I think) is too late.
I don't recommend you take the AIM's information over the Judging Guide. There were some deviations at the factory and the Judging Guide is developed by knowledgeable people and their first hand observation of numerous cars and documented examples of known-original cars. The direction of inboard fasteners for the front spoiler is a good example. I installed mine as per the AIM and later learned that the factory always ran them in the opposite direction because it was easier and made no difference in function. Additionally, the AIM reflects how the model year ended. Any engineering changes made throughout the model year are captured in the AIM and any info prior to that change will not be captured. This is where each car's VIN comes into play. Research has tied engineering changes to approximate VIN's. For example, if a part is changed or eliminated, the changed part will be in the AIM but the old part will not.
Judging isn't for all of us. It can certainly be a source of stress and frustration for the owner. It can also provide you with good insight on details of your car and how the factory built it back in the day. Evidently, you had some interest in judging, thereby learning more about your car. Use the experience for the good that came from it.
Lastly, I chuckled a bit when I read what caused your wiper door cycling to fail. The same exact thing happened to me just two days before I had my car judged. I had to search frantically to find a replacement and get it installed in time. A lousy design, the weather boot does a poor job of protecting the piston. The plastic construction is poor as well. It's also tough to get to the fasteners on this too, yes?
Maybe someone can check their 1970 Assembly Manual to see what type of exhaust clamps are depicted for the heck of it.
It’s pretty clear in the 71 Manual that they are not guillotine clamps and I’m told the part number Depicted in the Manual does not correspond with that old style clamp.
11-13-2020, 06:03 PM
#12
Safety Car
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. That is a thoroughly false generalization.
11-13-2020, 06:54 PM
#13
Team Owner
So glad I didn't go the numbers matching route when I bought my Corvette in 1999. What's even funnier is I could fully resto-mod my non-numbers matching car and make more money on it than most numbers matching cars these days.