Header Bolt Loose
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,939
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From: NSW, Australia
C3 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
True enough. I guess the thing is that if I'm screwing all the studs in after then I don't see much difference from bolts - if I still need to remove and refit most or all of them each time I take the headers off then it seems like more hassle than just using bolts to me.
Last edited by Metalhead140; Jul 27, 2021 at 09:17 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 11,906
Likes: 4,479
From: Virginia
True enough. I guess the thing is that if I'm screwing all the studs in after then I don't see much difference from bolts - if I still need to remove and refit most or all of them each time I take the headers off then it seems like more hassle than just using bolts to me.
Even if you screw the studs in and out each time, there is little stress on them, as long as you are using the nuts correctly. The tensioning stress is felt by both threads, of course, but only the threads under the nuts are moving relative to the nut. The threads in the heads are still, which should lead to less likelihood of galling.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
True enough. I guess the thing is that if I'm screwing all the studs in after then I don't see much difference from bolts - if I still need to remove and refit most or all of them each time I take the headers off then it seems like more hassle than just using bolts to me.
On oil pans, a stud kit is easiest way for that awkward task of bolt, pan, gasket & block alignment.
Disadvantages of stud kits is sometimes associated with clearance issues.
With cyl head studs, the head must be remove straight up & out.
With header studs, the headers must be pulled back, down & away. In some cases the frame or steering box will not allow this removal.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I think you are missing the concept of studs whether its for a carb, valve covers, oil pan or cylinder heads. Skipping all the tension & torque data for now, consider studs as a "Locator Pin" or Alignment Pin".
On oil pans, a stud kit is easiest way for that awkward task of bolt, pan, gasket & block alignment.
Disadvantages of stud kits is sometimes associated with clearance issues.
With cyl head studs, the head must be remove straight up & out.
With header studs, the headers must be pulled back, down & away. In some cases the frame or steering box will not allow this removal.
On oil pans, a stud kit is easiest way for that awkward task of bolt, pan, gasket & block alignment.
Disadvantages of stud kits is sometimes associated with clearance issues.
With cyl head studs, the head must be remove straight up & out.
With header studs, the headers must be pulled back, down & away. In some cases the frame or steering box will not allow this removal.
My first real hot rod motor stock block "010" stock 4 bolt block. I had it bored, align bored, ..... installed the head studs and I couldn't get the heads on because of the block thread angles. You have to have the block blue printed and have all the head bolt thread holes perfectly zero degrees. I've just built every one of my motors completely studded since i was a young lad.
Somebody mentioned ARP stud costs. I didn't buy a vette to save money!
The other thing is our government has printed so much money that our dollars are becoming worthless. Then add in a year of work shut down and ARP studs have about doubled in cost and it might take 3 months to get them. I'm so glad that i just bought many sets of everything 10 - 20 years ago. Just buy two sets in case you dork something up or loose something because ARP doesn't sell singles
Last edited by gkull; Jul 28, 2021 at 10:18 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,939
Likes: 477
From: NSW, Australia
C3 of Year Finalist (track prepared) 2019
I think you are missing the concept of studs whether its for a carb, valve covers, oil pan or cylinder heads. Skipping all the tension & torque data for now, consider studs as a "Locator Pin" or Alignment Pin".
On oil pans, a stud kit is easiest way for that awkward task of bolt, pan, gasket & block alignment.
Disadvantages of stud kits is sometimes associated with clearance issues.
With cyl head studs, the head must be remove straight up & out.
With header studs, the headers must be pulled back, down & away. In some cases the frame or steering box will not allow this removal.
On oil pans, a stud kit is easiest way for that awkward task of bolt, pan, gasket & block alignment.
Disadvantages of stud kits is sometimes associated with clearance issues.
With cyl head studs, the head must be remove straight up & out.
With header studs, the headers must be pulled back, down & away. In some cases the frame or steering box will not allow this removal.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
I understand now. Post 42 confused me.
If you have to remove header studs to remove the headers, I certainly would not bother with stud kits either.
The twelve point ARP stainless steel header bolts are wonderful.
As stated by another earlier, maybe just two studs per header, far-outside holes, to help alignment? IDK
If you have to remove header studs to remove the headers, I certainly would not bother with stud kits either.
The twelve point ARP stainless steel header bolts are wonderful.
As stated by another earlier, maybe just two studs per header, far-outside holes, to help alignment? IDK
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Jul 29, 2021 at 09:20 AM.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 923
Likes: 155
From: North Port, FL
When your talking about using studs I assume you are talking about the ones with 2 different size threads. 5/16 and 3/8"
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdm-pce317-1008
I bought some 1-3/4 headers and I dont want to worry about trying to screw bolts in and f'n up the threads on alum heads
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdm-pce317-1008
I bought some 1-3/4 headers and I dont want to worry about trying to screw bolts in and f'n up the threads on alum heads
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 923
Likes: 155
From: North Port, FL
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
Yes Summit has the bolts in Moly Black or Stainless, 12 point, w/ washer, ARPs.
Do not use the "fastener" category to look them up. Use the search box:
SBC Header Bolt Kit. Then look for ARP.
That way you will get the perfect 12 in the package. (instead of 5 per pack)
Do not use the "fastener" category to look them up. Use the search box:
SBC Header Bolt Kit. Then look for ARP.
That way you will get the perfect 12 in the package. (instead of 5 per pack)
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Jul 29, 2021 at 07:11 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 923
Likes: 155
From: North Port, FL
Did a search and the only ones are the speedmasters that have 3/8" step down to 5/16"
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
Not so sure you need a step-down to clear the headers. I have 1 5/8 tubes with 3/8 bolt heads. Box-end wrench clears easily. 3/8 socket? Usually.
In my opinion, the 5/16th is not much of a nut to be applying 25 lbs of torque to. But its your call.
Summit:
ARP 400-1201 Stainless
or
ARP 100-1203 Black moly
or
ARP 100-1201 Black moly
All 3/8s, all full thread, SBC, all correct length. You will not snap these off!
In my opinion, the 5/16th is not much of a nut to be applying 25 lbs of torque to. But its your call.
Summit:
ARP 400-1201 Stainless
or
ARP 100-1203 Black moly
or
ARP 100-1201 Black moly
All 3/8s, all full thread, SBC, all correct length. You will not snap these off!
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Jul 30, 2021 at 08:43 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
headerstud kits are premium grade, 180,000 psi tensile strength (stronger than grade 8) fasteners
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 923
Likes: 155
From: North Port, FL
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 923
Likes: 155
From: North Port, FL
Were your stud step down 3/8" to 5/16" with 5/16" nuts? I did find some of those. Some outfits are trying to get $10 a piece. I found some at $3 ea.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,444
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Yes stepped to 5/16th hex nut. They list the 12 point nuts for the 16 piece set. But 12 point is worthless on tight header tubes because you can't get any tool over the nut. So 6 point nuts only