Gkull......do you get mist out of the breathers?

 

I believe what that means is you just changed your AFR. And for the better because your engine liked it.
You mentioned before the mpg dropped from 15 to 12 mpg. I suspected that was transition slot / AFR related as well. That resulted because your AED carb was precisely calibrated to the old engine and it's cam specs. It got decent mileage so that meant the cruise AFR was a little on the lean & mean side. And it would not take much of a change at all to send it over the edge. But when you changed cams, you changed the vacuum level, and that altered the cruise AFR enough that you lost mpg. I guess we now know that it went too lean, because removing the PCV also removed the extra airflow from the PCV and restored it to the "feels right" range. I expected that change would have some effect and you just got lucky this time it runs better, and not even worse. So just run it with 2 breathers for now.

If at some point in the future you want to figure out the PCV, then you will need to recalibrate the carb. Not the jets, but the transition slot. AED may be able to do it. Or you and I can do it with an AFR meter.
At least you can drive the car now! I don't see how it could possibly suck any oil down the intake, and the throttle "feels" good. Congrats. So enjoy it for a while!.

Here is some "light" (technical) reading for you on PCV systems: LOL
https://www.mightymousesolutions.com/

www.motor.com/magazine-summary/pcv-systems-maintaining-the-flow

Highlights:

• You can measure PCV effectiveness by taking a vacuum reading at the oil dipstick tube opening. Should be 1-3 in. Hg.
• A 2 breather no PCV system can easily generate 2-3 PSI of crankcase pressure.
• Because of roughly 1.5% ring blowby approximately 7 cfm of crankcase gases are created every minute, at idle. They need to go somewhere.
• A PCV system under WOT does not function and the engine generates crankcase pressure. They only function at part throttle.
• Even OEM PCV valves were lucky to generate a vacuum 50% of the time, on a normal drive cycle, the Wagner one does it 95% of the time. Only at WOT does it allow pressure to build.
• There is a pic of a very elaborate valve cover baffle in I believe a Toyota 2.0L DOHC valve cover. My 3 Hondas and Toyotas in my fleet drink zero oil between 6000 mile oil changes, even with 200k on them, they have this stuff figured out. My GM 3.6 CTS is currently at 1 Qt oil per 300 mile tank of gas. It was never over 1500 mile/qt. They just dropped the ball on that one, sorry. The PCV valve gets sprayed by liquid oil & mist in the valve cover, and there is NO PCV baffle at all. Sound familiar? BTW after a few years, they did update the valve cover baffle, but it won't fit my earlier model. Grrrr.
• This is the one thing about my daily driver that pisses me off, and I have been doing plenty of research, and experimentation. Let's say I am well "motivated".

 

If you need to richen the carb up at 2000rpm or less - assuming your throttle blades are in the correct spot in relation to the transfer slots - you can try installing smaller idle air bleeds if yours are removeable.

Pat

 

Mark Jones called this evening, and glad to see the pictures of the inside of the engine all look good. He knows about some sort of cleaner that can be added to the fuel that should clean up the valve oil buildup. I put a bottle of Techron Fuel cleaner in the tank today, and may run another bottle. Then I will use the stuff Mark recommends. Hopefully it can work.

Mark also suggested the idea of putting a long sheet metal baffle across the top of all the rocker arms, and I have seen that on other engines. I googled for it, and Moroso makes a shield for small blocks that attaches to the poly-locks and basic puts a new roof above the rocker arms, and you NEED tall rocker covers for this.




I know I am posting like crazy,....but I am working hard on this and things are changing. The post above, where I said that both breathers were venting mist on the chrome valve covers.....got me thinking, so I replaced the driver side with the tall red valve cover and Edelbrock breather,....this is the side with my modified baffle. So red tall cover on left side....with standard height chrome cover on right side.....I drove the car down to Chipotle for dinner, and back, about 15 miles, and when I got back opened the hood.......there was still mist blowing out of the right side, out the K&N,........but NOTHING blowing out the Edelbrock breather on the left side. This was with engine at idle. That tells me that I will get mist out of the small covers,.....but not the large covers. So.......I am putting the red cover back on the right side. I like them better anyways.

So......at this point I can run them just as they are....cause the breather is working. Going to work next on vacuum advance. Then eventually..... I may consider these Moroso deflectors,...and a boxed in area around the PCV opening....Leigh offered to help design something, ..and maybe eventually the return to PCV. Its a process. If and when we put the PCV valve back in....I will make sure to plumb in the fuel fitler to verity no oil is flowing....and if there is....back to breathers for the "final answer".

Thanks everybody who has contributed.....this is why I love this forum.

 

I do have removeable idle air bleeds on this carb. I really believe the throttle blades / idle RPM setting on both primaries and secondaries are correct.....I set them before installed the carb, per Lars recommendations, and have made very little adjustment......from the topside you can see plenty of the transition slot remaining.

 

Thanks Leigh. Just FYI.......this is not an AED carb. It is a Holley 750 Street HP ALuminum......as removed from the box when it arrived from Summit. I know who AED is, and have bought fuel lines from them, but this is not their carb. Everything you said about AFR change makes perfect sense to me.

I also want to get the vacuum advance set up, because I think that could also change many parameters here.

 

Yes.....that is the limiter I used on the first build, when I had the vacuum advance can hooked up that came with the MSD Pro Billet HEI. I will use it again. And the cans I got are both recommended by Lars.....I will start with the most mild.

 

Some helpful tips to keep in mind. Before you start to change timing, know where your AFR is at each rpm segment. It is necessary to inure the timing changes are not correcting or masking an AFR adjustment issue. Make sure AFR is close in all rpm segments before hunting in the timing area. Advancing timing will tend to lean readings and retarding will richen your AFR. Its hard to measure meaningful results using your butt, (but sticking) to one change at a time will help to keep the confusion in results at a minimum and gain success. I've been as close 93% accuracy without using a dyno but also have been off by15% other times. Good hunting

 

Thanks Gordon....glad you are following, and appreciate your input. Based on what you wrote above, I guess that I am going to need an AFR gage or tool. Leigh has one that I can use, but I unfortunately did not get a sensor bung welded into my headers when I had lots of time to do so. Now its in the car. I see that there is a clamp on bung available, that would only require I get a hole drilled in the collector and then clamp it on. I assume this will work....and later if and when I take the header off, I can weld one in. OR.....I used a tailpipe sensor, which I understand is less accurate. Also,...my muffler tips are turndowns,...so I have to see if there is a tailpipe sensor that will work with turndowns.

I am thinking about setting up gage box that I could have in the car, that would include a vacuum gage and AFR gage at a minimum, that I can connect at times to monitor and read this information. I am not sure I want any permanent gages in the car, although I could be convinced if I can find a place to mount them that is not is too abnoxious. It would be cool if I could hide them in the ashtray area...under the cover....and then just open the cover to view them when I want,...close it any other time. Of course....this is another project to deal with.

 

Glad you feel like you are making progress!
And I love BOTH of Mark's ideas. They are great solutions.
That baffle he mentioned should prevent liquid oil from the lifters/pushrods being ingested by the PCV..
Then you just need to deal with oil mist, with the brass wool.

It takes a village...

 

I have installed many AFR gauges and most take around 1-1.5 hours. I've had good results using a right angle drill and welding the bung on the drivers side of the car for wire routing purposes. As far as gauge placement simply making small L bracket and screwing to back of the gauge then apply 3M two-way tape it to the A pillar keeping it eye level is fast and temporary. Making a Clean easy to read "gauge pac" is convenient also but can be tedious if your ****.

 

If I fabricate a plate to cap all way across the valves...like the Moroso unit, I can attach it to the inner sidewall of the rocker with pan head machine screws and self locking nuts.....basically an aluminum sheet full length, fits over all the rocker arms,......and then bend a 90 degree mounting flange,....drill holes, and screw it to the inner sidewall of the aluminum valve covers. I have access to sheet metal shear and brake at work. That takes care of the shooting jets of oil

Then,......fabricate an aluminum sheet box around the grommet hole, and fill that box with brass wool. I could drill multiple holes all around the box to allow airflow in,.....but more importantly, to retain the brass wool inside the box, preventing it from being able to end up in the engine. That box could be attached to the two existing mounting screws the valve cover manufacturer uses to retain that small flat plate....OR, I could simple attach it to the top of the above mentioned shield or just more holes in the inner sidewall of the rocker....again with panhead machine screws and self locking nuts.

I was not able to find the brass wool at Walmart or Dollar General. They had stainless steel wool, that looked the same curly design....so I guess that would work....but I prefer softer metal just in case anything ends up in the engine. There was also some version that looked like brass coated steel. I assume pure brass wool is what RR and you have used. Where did you find it? Looks like AMazon has it, and they call it solder gun cleaner....!!

Once this is all in place.....I could try PCV again. I own the Wagner...and its adjustable.....so seems like a good idea to use it. Or,....there are low flow PCV valves guys have recommended.

 

I don't see anything wrong with the Proform covers. I think they look good. Maybe a bit more of a stock-ish vibe with the way the rest of your engine is detailed.

Techron in the tank or through a hose is a good one to try. Not sure what Mark Jones suggested but Seafoam would be worth a try too. I'd have the engine suck it in slowly through a hose connected to a manifold vacuum port.

 

Found the brass wool today at Home Depot.........still don't like the idea of it, .....in the bag was a couple loose pieces of the stuff. I won't do this till I know I can properly contain it.....but then.....how much air is going to make it through?? and oil out?? Call me paranoid.....but it matters.

 

So mine had no loose pieces....so ypu got me thinking....I looked it up on Home Depot....and I found two types!!!!! I would use the SECOND TYPE.

This stuff looks like regular steel wool, but is very fine, and looks like lots of small pieces would break off and have loose pieces floating around in an engine. Not good! Don't use this type.


The second one is a 3M Kitchen Scrub pad. The woven mesh part is thick, like 1-2 mm wide. And virtually one piece thruout. This or similar is what I used. It leaves no small pieces behind.

This one says copper, I could have swore the one I used said brass. Whatever, copper won't rust either in an engine.

 

I mentioned the scrub back in post #579:


Jebby

 

I agree.

I am wondering if he bought the wrong type.

The "wool" version would definately leave pieces.

That's why I included the pics, they are worth a lot...

BTW I found the scrubby this morning at the grocery store. It's not hard to find.

 

I have been busy flying all around the US.....but, below is what I bought at Home Depot in Vegas The stuff Leigh posted is called copper "coated".......i.e. is it steel with copper coating? Its not pure copper. I found that at several places and decided against it. This stuff I bought at HD is what I think you all are suggesting. When I get home, I will verify it is NOT magetic.

 

I like the Weller soldering gun version better than my 3M kitchen scrubby version.
Why you ask?

Because the "filament" is 1-2 mm wide, vs hairlike thin.

• It's stronger
• It offers more surface area to do a better job collecting oil mist
• It is Brass

The 3M is way too soft to be steel, so I am thinking aluminum, and then copper coated. (turned out to be steel)
I too will test my 3M one with a magnet and see.

The Weller ad copy says it is brass.

OK I have the 3M Scotch Bright Copper Coated Scubber on my table, and IT IS MAGNETIC. So this one is steel inside.
I do not like this one for a couple reasons:

• It is very thin so very little surface area to be an effective oil mist collector
• It is very thin so pieces are likely to break off
• It is hard steel inside. Not what I want in my valve cover.

 

I had similar oil puking issues with MT valve covers, the vents are located over the rockers. The stock baffles were just round sheet metal pucks. I made some sheet metal baffles that were longer and |_| shaped and I think that fixed it.