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Looks like all shims were put in to maximize caster (moving the upper ball joint aft). It also looks like the front edge of the driver side wheel well hooks rearward, while the passe ger side is straight down. The passenger side wheel appears well centered, the driver side, less so.
Looks like all shims were put in to maximize caster (moving the upper ball joint aft). It also looks like the front edge of the driver side wheel well hooks rearward, while the passe ger side is straight down. The passenger side wheel appears well centered, the driver side, less so.
So, maybe try to move the fender? I can do that but just does not explain why it was not rubbing before the 2022 alignment but is now. I checked it right before I took it in for that 2022 alignment right after I change the ball joints (etc.) and it was not rubbing at all. Interesting, you may be on to something - I'm hoping that crap alignment shop did not move the fender for some reason.
So, maybe try to move the fender? I can do that but just does not explain why it was not rubbing before the 2022 alignment but is now. I checked it right before I took it in for that 2022 alignment right after I change the ball joints (etc.) and it was not rubbing at all. Interesting, you may be on to something - I'm hoping that crap alignment shop did not move the fender for some reason.
The alignment shop did not move your fender. Perhaps your suspension was sagging before with the old bushings, and the new poly bushings moved your arms forward. I really don't know.
I thougIt only 78 and 79 C3s had optional 255/60R15 tires, and were often trimmed to fit. My 79 has her fender trimmed in the highlighted area. 80 and up had a different front bumper that removed the front lower fender and provided clearance.
So, even if 99 1976 C3s can run 255/60R15s with no issues, perhaps you have the one in a hundred that has an issue.
The straight-on shot of your car isnt quite straight. Or perhaps your front clip isn't straight. I'd break out the tape measure, and start comparing your car from side to side.
The alignment shop did not move your fender. Perhaps your suspension was sagging before with the old bushings, and the new poly bushings moved your arms forward. I really don't know.
I thougIt only 78 and 79 C3s had optional 255/60R15 tires, and were often trimmed to fit. My 79 has her fender trimmed in the highlighted area. 80 and up had a different front bumper that removed the front lower fender and provided clearance.
Not sure what they did. I would not be surprised if they screwed around with the fender since they did all kinds of other crazy stuff like cracked a windshield, took off a brace and stripped brand new bolts. When I went back to ask about the brace, they pulled it out of the tech's tool box. "Talking about is this it? Oh, only a Corvette owner would notice that missing."SMH! .
Also, I hear you on sagging bushings, etc but remember I said after I changed the bushings (etc.) there was no rubbing. The rubbing started after the alignment.
Last edited by hgoodwiniii; Mar 31, 2024 at 04:24 PM.
WOW! Sounds like you took it to the shop from hell!
right away I seen the energy suspension bushings.
Any chance the arms got knocked out of true pressing out the original bushings?
Shims look about right. I would add one to drivers side rear to get the caster abit more even. That drivers front wheel is definitely not centered.
I would measure from hub center to hub center, front wheel to rear wheel, both sides. Compare. Is the wheel base the same on both sides?
This will tell you if it's mechanical, or bent. Or if it's in the body.
WOW! Sounds like you took it to the shop from hell!
right away I seen the energy suspension bushings.
Any chance the arms got knocked out of true pressing out the original bushings?
Shims look about right. I would add one to drivers side rear to get the caster abit more even. That drivers front wheel is definitely not centered.
I would measure from hub center to hub center, front wheel to rear wheel, both sides. Compare. Is the wheel base the same on both sides?
This will tell you if it's mechanical, or bent. Or if it's in the body.
Hi 4-vettes, yea the shop from hell. This is all after they assured that they could do the alignment (blah blah blah). We've done a ton of them. SMH!
I suppose anything is possible with getting the original bushings out but the thing that is really weird is that there was no rub after I put the new bushings (etc.) in and had the suspension back together. The car was then towed to the alignment shop in 2022 and was not driven until it came back.
I will measure the wheelbase and post tomorrow .
Thanks.
Last edited by hgoodwiniii; Mar 31, 2024 at 06:59 PM.
Hopefully measurements show something obvious, and simple to fix.
Looking down the side of the car, does the passenger side wheel stick out further than the driver side? It's hard to tell in the image you posted above. Are those stock 15x8" steelies with 4" backspacing, and no spacers?
So it didn't rub in 2022, but you towed it to the alignment shop? Too bad you can't get the pre-alignment numbers from that.
Looking forward to measurements! If you get the car on a lift, please take pictures then, too.
Hopefully measurements show something obvious, and simple to fix.
Looking down the side of the car, does the passenger side wheel stick out further than the driver side? It's hard to tell in the image you posted above. Are those stock 15x8" steelies with 4" backspacing, and no spacers?
So it didn't rub in 2022, but you towed it to the alignment shop? Too bad you can't get the pre-alignment numbers from that.
Looking forward to measurements! If you get the car on a lift, please take pictures then, too.
Hi Bikespace, yes those are 15X8 stock rims. No spacers.
Correct, I put the 255s on the car way back in 2010 when I got it. It was aligned by Goodyear back around 2011. That Goodyear does not exist anymore. I will go through my records and hopefully I can luck up on the report from them. It never rubbed from that time until I got it back from the 2022 alignment shop. I did not want to drive it after I put the new parts on until I had it aligned so I had it towed to the alignment shop a couple weeks, later. I rode with the tow guy and I didn't see him do anything weird but that's a possibility, too.
Pics show a-arms are on correctly. So that is not it.
Fender height looks high to me. This aggravates the pos camber problem. I would measure all 4 fender lip heights. Should be near 27.85" Have you done anything to lighten the front of the car? Front springs would have been removed to do this work. Check top inspection hole to see if they are installed / rotated properly.
.4 & .8 pos camber is too much. You need .4 neg. That will move your tires inward roughly 1/4" This would require roughly (2) 1/8" shims in all 4 spots, unless you can lower the car as above.
Increasing positive caster back to near where it was will also help. To add 2* caster you need to move the upper a-arm and wheel back roughly 1/4". This requires moving (2) 1/8" shims from the front studs and adding them to the rear studs. Realistically, you may run out of rear stud, so just get as much as the stud allows.
These two 1/4" movements (in and rear) may let that tire clear the fender. Or not. The new bushings may have less slop than the old ones. The old ones may have helped.
Drivers side wheel well does not look centered at all on tire, and wheel lip edge looks incorrect. This suggests the car has a history of an accident, a repaired fender, a bent frame, or a clip that was installed sloppily, possibly from day 1. This could be the root of your problem, but it cleared the tire before. Much measuring will be required to figure out where the error is, but you can do it at home if motivated.
I would re-do the alignment first, and see if that helps. You could move the shims as I suggested, at home, and see if that helps. Even before you take it to a shop. You can measure camber angle easily, with a smart phone app.
Pics show a-arms are on correctly. So that is not it.
Fender height looks high to me. This aggravates the pos camber problem. I would measure all 4 fender lip heights. Should be near 27.85" Have you done anything to lighten the front of the car? Front springs would have been removed to do this work. Check top inspection hole to see if they are installed / rotated properly.
.4 & .8 pos camber is too much. You need .4 neg. That will move your tires inward roughly 1/4" This would require roughly (2) 1/8" shims in all 4 spots, unless you can lower the car as above.
Increasing positive caster back to near where it was will also help. To add 2* caster you need to move the upper a-arm and wheel back roughly 1/4". This requires moving (2) 1/8" shims from the front studs and adding them to the rear studs. Realistically, you may run out of rear stud, so just get as much as the stud allows.
These two 1/4" movements (in and rear) may let that tire clear the fender. Or not. The new bushings may have less slop than the old ones. The old ones may have helped.
Drivers side wheel well does not look centered at all on tire, and wheel lip edge looks incorrect. This suggests the car has a history of an accident, a repaired fender, a bent frame, or a clip that was installed sloppily, possibly from day 1. This could be the root of your problem, but it cleared the tire before. Much measuring will be required to figure out where the error is, but you can do it at home if motivated.
I would re-do the alignment first, and see if that helps. You could move the shims as I suggested, at home, and see if that helps. Even before you take it to a shop. You can measure camber angle easily, with a smart phone app.
Suggestions noted; Thanks; I've checked the springs a couple times before because of the height and verified they are installed/rotated properly. I will check again. So, the car is a sitting bit high (will get current measurements). all around front and back. Bilstein shocks were installed. I'm often wondering if they are somehow causing the height to be bit high. I spoke to Bilstein and they said they would expect the car to settle "some" over time.
I run Bilstien's all the way around. Many of us do.
Shocks don't raise your car. They dampen.
Springs hold up your car.
Yep - I know. I like Billsteins a lot. I have them on 2 other vehicles. The only other thing I can think of is I put poly bushings all the way around. Could they cause it to rise? Not sure; I only have about 800 miles on my car since I did all the suspension, efi and other work so just hoping to get this all figured out as I drive it. Please bear with me. I will take measurements this week. Thanks..
Last edited by hgoodwiniii; Apr 1, 2024 at 08:49 AM.
Somewhat surprisingly you would think my greased Delrin a-am bushings should rotate freely, but they still required 20ish pounds of force to move the a-arm.
But that should not affect ride height. That force never really varied from full compression to extension.
The rubber bushed arms were some similar, at first. However those kept getting increasingly stiffer and stiffer as you flexed the rubber bushing more. It became rather significant after you moved the arm 4-5 inches, probably 100 lbs. At that point they were increasing the spring rate!
Somewhat surprisingly you would think my greased Delrin a-am bushings should rotate freely, but they still required 20ish pounds of force to move the a-arm.
But that should not affect ride height. That force never really varied from full compression to extension.
The rubber bushed arms were some similar, at first. However those kept getting increasingly stiffer and stiffer as you flexed the rubber bushing more. It became rather significant after you moved the arm 4-5 inches, probably 100 lbs. At that point they were increasing the spring rate!
That's interesting; I will post measurements in the morning when I go back to the garage. Thanks.
Hopefully measurements show something obvious, and simple to fix.
Looking down the side of the car, does the passenger side wheel stick out further than the driver side? It's hard to tell in the image you posted above. Are those stock 15x8" steelies with 4" backspacing, and no spacers?
So it didn't rub in 2022, but you towed it to the alignment shop? Too bad you can't get the pre-alignment numbers from that.
Looking forward to measurements! If you get the car on a lift, please take pictures then, too.
Good morning -
I checked the driver side spring and confirmed the top is aligned to the hole in the top perch. I could not quite see the passenger side but I'm sure I it's aligned the same.
Also, here are the measurements I have:
Driver side - Wheel base = 99 5/8"; Bottom of wheel well center to ground height = 29 1/4" (front); 29.5" (rear); Bottom of wheel well center to top of tire height = 4" (front); 4" (rear); Tire to front fender 2 1/2" (front); 4" (rear)
Passenger side - Wheel base = 99.5"; Bottom of wheel well center to ground height = 29.5" (front); 30" (rear); Bottom of wheel well center to top of tire height = 4 3/8" (front); 4 3/4" (rear); Tire to front fender 3 1/4" (front); 3 1/2"
(rear)
