Some folks elevate Corvettes to the point of it being a religion. Anything less than the purity of originality is worthy of only the fires of Hades. Others don't want to be reminded of any standards at all and also rebel at the mere suggestion of criticism for being not quite original.

Many times Christians, and I am one, will feel that anyone appearing more devout than themselves is a "Holy Joe", while anyone less religious must no doubt be damned. As a Christian it is wrong for me to think this way about the my fellow man; but, as a Corvette Nut, I have no problem with this line of thinking regarding the cars driven by my fellow man.

:blueangel:
Chuck

 

Fevre:
LMAO :lolg: :lolg:

I don't have a problem with the NCRS, it's just not my cup of tea...been there...done that. When my '76 was 100% bone stock, it was fun at first because I was used to driving a 3.1L Grand Am GT. But after a while the low power L48 started to become a bore. So as Gkull stated, you look for way to improve it. I say go for whatever makes you happy. One thing is for sure, you'll never catch me worrying about whether or not my spark plugs are numbers matching :). Regardless of how fast my car is or how much it may or may not be worth...I still love it!


[Modified by bence13_33, 4:05 PM 2/1/2003]

 

I think they serve as a great resource. My car is unique enough that I try and keep it right, but I'm a driver, so that comes first. Each club or group has a varied membership and I always keep that in mind.

Keep in mind, we all have the same disease - were classic car folk, be it a new Ford GT (40), a Viper, a Model A, C-3, Cadzilla, or whatever. I gave up the pi**ing match attitude years ago (like. highschool?) and now I'll take anything that hauls a**! :yesnod:

Hans

 

Everyone means everyone and I know for a fact that a number of CF'ers are NCRSers so your statement is not factually correct but mythical that does nothing more than perpetuate the the fantasy.

 

Interesting thread.

Rants and raving aside, to distill what I read, what people hate about NCRS isn't the NCRS itself, but those unreasonable individuals who insist the NCRS way (factory correct) is the only way- the elitists look down on other Vette owners who do not embrace the NCRS way. It's easier to slag the entire organization than to pinpoint individuals. This elitist attitude, according to others, does not represent the feeling of the majority of NCRS members.

So how did this situation come to be? Who are these elitists? Here's my humble opinion.

Investers (owners who speculate and buy Vettes for their investment value) collectors (buy Vettes to show them, museum types etc.) and status owners (wealthy owners who buy Vettes as a status symbol) drive up the value of collectible Corvettes. The cars desired by collectors, status owners and investors are those which meet the NCRS standards and/or the "survivors" (unmolested, completely original, low mileage, highly optioned Vettes). Do they desire a high mileage, modified, low or no option car? Nope. Are the individuals who fit these catagories 'blue collar' types? Nope. At it's essense, this is a class conflict, IMHO.

Are the majority of NCRS members investors, collectors or status owners? I have no idea as I'm not an NCRS member and I've never asked this question to an NCRS member but I suspect they do not fit these catagories.

I wonder how much of this animosity is caused by the judging system itself? In order to succeed in NCRS judging, the car must appear as delivered from the factory, pimples and all. I can see where Vette owners find it distressing to spend copious amounts of time and money making their Vette perfect, only to be told their car is too good- incorrect as the faults and flaws the factory produced were not emulated when the car was restored.

 

Interesting reply! No judgement on my part on this one but check below. A restoration can be taken too far....
http://www.ncrs.org/forum/tech.cgi/noframes/read/71659

 

Yeah, like taking off the tires on your '67, taking them down to St. Louis, deflating them and then filling them up with St. Louis air!!
:lol:

NCRS Member #33001

 

My experience with NCRS has been a positive one. I have found the that most of the people were very friendly and helpful.

 

I agree!

 

:withstupid:

You have to go to there meets and see the cars up close that have been given the top honors,These cars are the cream of the crop,Perfect as they left the factory,

Not just a tie wire repainted P.O.S. as we are becoming used to seeing as advertized for sale as restored one of a kind gems.

When your in the market for a excellent corvette (doenst matter what year or style,If it has NCRS judging sheets you have found a quaility car

Most people who dislike,the NCRS have never even been to one of there meets and just asume all the other rummers are true. GREAT GROUP GET INVOULVED with Them

 

If the car was originally poor performing and you can improve the performance, you should do it! Plenty of base engine cars begging to be improved. If the car is rare or one of a kind, it should be left untampered..

 

I agree.
What I find funny is that a lot of people think ALL corvette owners look down their noses at other makes. I've been to many a cruise-in and have had the owners of other make cars not even give me the time of day...alot of people don't like corvette owners period!! and here we are bashing each other. Life is too short, do whatever makes you happy and don't worry about what the other guy is doing.

 

I am a member and there are lots of good people in the ncrs, problem is there are far to many who look down there noses at the rest of the corvette world unless they agree with them, unfortunately, these are the people who are remembered. :mad

 

First of all, let me say that I've proudly been a member of NCRS for over 25 years. I've had numerous cars judged and have even judged myself at a Chapter Meet. (once and only once and won't do that again) I admire those who do it on a continuing basis.

Have I ever had an unpleasant judging experience? Absolutely. NCRS judges are unpaid volunteers who do it for the love of the hobby, unlike some other organizations who's judges are compensated. Just like sports umpires, some are better than others and even the best have made a bad call in their time. I'd have to say that the quality of judging has improved dramatically since my first event, but as long as judges volunteer for an unpaid, thankless job, and a number of different people with different experience levels undertake the same task in different locations, there will be some inconsistencies.

Have I ever met members with snooty or elitest attitudes? Yes I have. But the same can be said for any organization from a Church to a Country Club. It's a fact of life. The NCRS can't be held responsible for the personalities of it's members. It's also fair to say that I think these people are an insignificant minority in terms of percentages of total membership.

One of the primary themes of the NCRS is "factory originality". That's what "restored" is all about. I think it's possible for a person to have cars in this category as well as some that are modified, restified, or glorified. I don't think there are many members in NCRS who shun owners who don't value originality, however I also don't think these individuals should expect to have their cars evaluated favorably in a matter that would require different judging criteria. There are other organizations whose judging deals primarily with condition and cleanliness rather than originality. I personally don't care for this type of judging, but certainly don't criticize or snob those who do. I will have to concede that the older a car is, the more I hate to see it modified. If somebody wants to stick fat tires and aftermarket fiberglass on an 80's Corvette, that's fine with me, but I hate to see an original 50's or 60's car get flared fenders and a blower through the hood for the first time.

I guess the bottom line is that NCRS doesn't have the desire or ability to be all things to all Corvette owners. There are many excellent aspects to the NCRS and some of the above comments seem to suggest that some people view the organization as nothing more than a judging authority which shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of the organization and it's goals.

NOTE: The opinions expressed here are totally my own and don't necessarily reflect those of any other member.

 

We seem to have a discussion about NCRS once a month...and always so entertaining to learn how little is understood about NCRS goals and its mission. Solid lifter put it in perspective well.

In Dec 02 a survey revealed that 52% of C3 forum participants modify their Corvette while 39% work to keep its stock appearance. The balance are those that keep it in its original state.

Someone used this phrase and its good but essentially NCRS isn't out to recognize "personal statements" of those Corvette owners who invest in modifications that they perceive improves its looks. I believe this is where the rub begins and you can see it here when its understood that over 52% modify their cars which may or may not approximate a "personal statement."

I was over on the C5 forum and a group was discussing adding wings and air foils. My question was "why would you do that when Corvette Design/Engineering have produced a car with a 0.29 coefficient of drag which intimates it ain't gonna get much better!

The only response was "I like the looks!" Thanks for the honesty. Too much credit is given to NCRS...the standards were set by St Louis and Bowling Green as Corvettes rolled off the factory floor. NCRS simply upholds those standards.

 

Ah....another "monthly" bash the NCRS thread. :D

NCRS clearly states its' purpose. They judge cars "as delivered from the factory", no better, no worse.

Another very well known unrelated group, Bloomington Gold, does the same thing.

If that aspect of the Corvette hobby is not "your bag", don't participate in their events.

That being said, just because you personally disagree with their philosophy, don't bash them for what they clearly stand for.

There are jerks in ANY and EVERY organization. You'll find them in service clubs like the Lions, Optimists, etc., civic groups, political groups, etc.

I just don't understand why somebody bashes an entire organization just because of their interaction with one or two "jerks" that they've met along the way.

Chuck

 

Ok,Heres my 2 cents.I like alot of others have worked on cars all of there life.I have always noticed that the further you get from originality ,the bigger of a POS you have .After a while youll notice that you dont have a corvette anymore,you own a "Autozone Kit Car" :cuss :seeya

 

Well, as a NCRS member and the owner of a Top Flight car, maybe I can put it in perspective. Most of us own more than one corvette, and a good percentage of our second cars are highly modified! We do not dislike modified corvettes!
We love all corvettes, but our focus at any NCRS meet is originality as defined by the judging guide. It amazes me that some will have their car judged without preparing by going through the guide and bringing the car up to standards. Some of these same people complain about the judging being too strict, but that is what we do at judging, determine how close the car APPEARS to the "as built" condition. This has nothing to do with whether the car is truly original, but more with if it APPEARS correct. There are those who think that points should not be deducted for some modifications, but then where do you stop? Before long you just have another car show like any other.
We do not look down our noses at others car, but some have their car judged and then want the rules changed to accomodate their modifications. This not what flight judging is about and never will be.
There are many NCRS guys that travel great distances in their old corvettes to attend meets and truly enjoy corvettes of all types.
Flight Judging is just one aspect of this hobby, and it amazes me when I hear comments about not wanting to take a car to a meet for fear of being ejected for not being correct! Flight judging is judged against a standard, and all cars are judged against this standard. There are no winners or losers, there only scores against the standard. Some people are just a tickled with a third flight as others are with a Top Flight, It all depends on your expectations. How many car shows do you know of where better than 50% percent of the cars entered in a class can win the top award!
:seeya

 

Well said, Chuck!
Keep in mind also, that some of the jerks that you meet along the way who proclaim themselves to be experts are nothing but blowhards and have never judged a car or had one judged. At a local cruise night, We had a guy who proclaimed himself to be a Master Level NCRS Judge who walked arround and passed judgement on almost every corvette at the cruise including a couple of Top Flight cars. First of all, I know of no one who has the level of knowledge to know what is correct on such a wide range of cars, and by his comments it was clear that he knew almost nothing about them! Those of us who knew him for what he was just chuckled to ourselves as he dispensed his meaningless drivel!
:seeya

 

:withstupid: I think THAT is exactly the point. I cannot remember ever seeing NCRS forcing anyone to do anything...