Personally, I like to see a nicely done classic but I can REALLY appreciate a hot rod/custom. I think the customs take a bit more creaticity and you rarely see two alike. Don't get me wrong the NCRS folks work equally hard on their projects but the customs are my personal preference. On the other hand if I had the $$ to afford a '67 427 I might think twice before hacking it up to make a custom :eek:

 

:iagree:

 

I wouldn't say that I have ever felt looked down upon from an NCRS person. In fact my car is mostly stock. If anything I have felt looked down upon from Performance enthousiasts. See I have a mostly stock 75 L-48. I see more comments like this:

"But when you get into the late 70's and they were a sad excuse for a sports car. " *taken from this thread !*

This is more of what I see. Not like I would be looking for the best performance from anything from the 60's or 70's anyway. I think a newer more capable car would fit that.

There is just more to it than that. I am happy with my vette. NCRS people are too. Thats what its all about. :cheers:

 

I disagree. Like gkull said, Corvettes are not well built and replacing stuff w/ non original does not directly mean you are installing autozi\one stuff and making your car into a POS.

There are quite a number of non original cars here and they are far from autozone kit cars.

Marck

 

Who cares!!! I like mine, regardless of who likes it. I have to drive it they don't!


IETEK :cool:

 

I completely agree with Marck. Admittedly, I've seen some real abortions of vehicles created in the name of "Customisation", but I've also seen some really beautiful creations, not all of which needed a mountain of money to do. Vehicles of that standard are worth looking at & the owners/creators should feel rightfully proud of themselves.
Knowing the effort required, the frustration that can occur & the ridiculous prices for hard to find parts that is all part & parcel of a restoration, I've got nothing but respect for the NCRS members. My philosophy isn't so much factory correct restoration, but more of improvement on what the factory did ("improvement" being a matter of debate :lol: ). To each his own.
:cheers:

 

:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: They are way too **** about being perfect, and I mean perfect :rolleyes:

 

Ryan, have you actually READ the post? Have you participated in an NCRS event, read the NCRS judging guides? If you've read the posts above you'll notice that the NCRS is NOT about cars being "perfect". It's about restoring the car to the exact appearance when it left St Louis. Judging points are deducted for a paint job that's too smooth without any orangepeel. Same goes for many other areas where cars are over-restored when compared to the way they were originally delivered.

Now, if you mean that the judging is picky, well yeah, it is. That's the whole point of it. Restore the car to the condition and appearance as it was delivered from GM, no better or worse. "Restoring" a car in NCRS circles adheres to the 3rd definition as supplied by the Webster online dictionary:

Main Entry: re·store
Pronunciation: ri-'stOr, -'stor
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): re·stored; re·stor·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French restorer, from Latin restaurare to renew, rebuild, alteration of instaurare to renew
Date: 14th century
1 : GIVE BACK, RETURN
2 : to put or bring back into existence or use
3 : to bring back to or put back into a former or original state: RENEW
4 : to put again in possession of something
synonym see RENEW
- re·stor·er noun


[Modified by sb69coupe, 2:55 PM 2/4/2003]

 

lol, autozone kit car.....thats funny.

I will have to use it when someone bitches that my car needs more HP.
"I want to save up so I don't turn it into an Auto-Zone Kit Car"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

true. but you wouldnt be bringing it to a show to try to win for originality. Some are drivers, some are collectors.

 

This is why I am no longer active with NCRS. To me, restoring a car should be definition #2, to put or bring back into existence or use.
I joined the NCRS in search of others who were doing heavy restoration work on their own. What I found was mostly a bunch of old guys paying others to do complete restoration on their cars, many of which were sold for after reaching Top Flight, with the owners putting very few miles on them and doing little or no work themselves, sometimes they didn't even clean the car for the show themselves.
The other problem is that 95% of the cars had chrome bumpers. Nobody knew or cared a thing about my '74, nor did they want to. And because most of the people doing any actual work and having any useful knowledge were owners of restoration shops they weren't exactly quick to offer advice to someone who would never bring their car to a shop, like me. There are exceptions, and I have maintained contact with most of them.
Perhaps the name should be changed to NCIS, National Corvette Investment Society. There was a lot more investing going on than restoring when I was heavily involved. When the promoters of the club are making a profit from the members I question the true interests.
That being said, they have obviously struck a positive chord with some folks, since their membership seems to have swelled, especially since the advent of the NCRS Forum.
Jeff #29146

P.S. Yes, I have attended meets, yes I have judged, I used to publish the area newsletter and organized an event or two, so don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

 

Jeff, I'm sorry to hear that your experience was so bad with your local chapter. I'm not involved with the local chapter here, but I know that they are quite a bunch of hands-on guys. The last chapter tech session was how to install a soft top. They actually went through and installed a top on a members car.

Also, the one judge I know the best has a '66 driver that sports a late model L98 with a 700R4 tranny, aftermarket A/C, and many other mods. He drives it daily and loves it. So not everyone looks down on non-original cars.

I can understand your frustration if you wanted to get grease under your nails while others were only interested in the appreciation in their cars value. I personally agree with the stance that the NCRS has taken regarding the benchmark for judging a restoration. Sorry that your local chapter didn't have more wrench-turners involved. :cheers:

 

"is if I had a time machine and went back to 1971 and drove a brand new Corvette off the assembly line...put it in my time machine and brought it back to 2003 it would not receive a 100% top flight or whatever they call it because their standards seem to a lot tougher than what a factory can mass produce."

"They are way too **** about being perfect, and I mean perfect."


Both of the above comments display a total lack of firsthand knowledge of what the NCRS is all about. If the "time machine" poster could bring a new car foward, he could count on a Top Flight for sure and probably very close to a near 100 point score. Of course the NCRS judges condition also, and to reach near perfection score wise one would have to assume "as manufactured" condition, as opposed to any paint swirls from a dealer's buffer, chips from shipping, etc, etc. NCRS is all about "as manufactured, no better, no worse". There's nothing in the judging that addresses perfection, only originality and condition. Over restored cars, perfect cars generally don't do so well.

 

"What I found was mostly a bunch of old guys paying others to do complete restoration on their cars, many of which were sold for after reaching Top Flight, with the owners putting very few miles on them and doing little or no work themselves, "

This sterotype is so ridiculous it's almost unworthy of a response. There's no question that some people have professionally restored cars, but my experience has been that they're the minority..........by a HUGE margin. I saw a VERY high percentage of car guys who did most of their own work and took a great deal of pride in their cars. Many of them took the time to get multiple Top Flights with the same car.

"Yes, I have attended meets, yes I have judged, I used to publish the area newsletter and organized an event or two, so don't accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about. "

I find that incredibly hard to believe, given the above comments.

 

Whatever man, I have been to NCRS events and have seen a lot of top flight cars being judged and if GM ever produced a product that was as flawless as what I witnessed, and then all the other car manufactures would be out of business because they could not compete. I don't know about your local chapter, but every NCRS event I have been to all I have seen is cars that in now way have been mass produced. Everyone has an opinion and my opinion of the NCRS is not very high.......sorry if you don't like it and I am sorry that I don't like yours so lets just drop it.
John Non NCRS member#1

 

The thing that I like about NCRS judging is that it's "objective", not "subjective". If you have a part with the correct configuration, the correct numbers, the correct finish, etc., it "flies". It's a 100% item. All cars compete against a standard. If you have 10 cars in a class, and all score 94% or above, they all get Top Flight Awards.

Subjective judging is different. This type of judging is often a beauty contest. Shows are won and lost over pieces of lint on the carpet, fingerprints on the chrome, etc. Also, when judging custom or modified cars, the prejudices of the judges come into play. Maybe they like chrome and not billet aluminum. Maybe they don't like certain colors or modifications, etc.

I enjoy looking at ALL Corvettes, stock or modified. I can appreciate the workmanship that goes into each and every car. As Sly Stone sang many years ago, "Different Strokes For Different Folks". :) Chuck

 

Whatever...come to Houston sometime. I find it hard to believe that there are so many hands-on guys in all the other areas of the country and yet so few here. I always wondered where they found all the guys to write the articles in the Restorer.

Those that know me know what my involvement WAS, and no longer is. Check the Driveline issues back in about '97-'98 for my name on ads for events I was organizing in the Houston area, including practice judging sessions and judging schools. I also edited the first Houston area NCRS newsletter for a couple years. I am still a member and appreciate the Restorer and Driveline, I just think I am not in alignment with the goals of most of the local "enthusiasts". And, yes, many people do Top Flight their cars multiple times. How else to achieve Top Flight awards at the National Convention and therefore secure the ultimate selling price for your restored Corvette?
I think the judging style and guidelines are well thought out and documented. I love the historical aspect of the organization. I just want to hang out with more guys that work on their own cars on a regular basis, and I also enjoy the creativity that goes along with personalizing your own car.
Jeff


[Modified by no_radio, 11:21 AM 2/5/2003]

 

Because it's all about goin' fast and fast women. Goin' stock is for pansies that can go somewhere's else. We don't need no stinkin' NCRS round here when we gots the go stuff.

 

What's NCRS?

 

Ah, now I understand. And to think, this kind of enlightment has eluded me all these years.... :rolleyes: