Ow and I have another thing I wanna ask you guys.
My father is saying (for a couple of weeks now): "Because of your higher compression goal and the higher HP, your gonna have less MPG and also overhead your engine."
Does he have a point or is it not true?

 

Absolutely. MPG and high horsepower don't even fit in the same sentence.
If you are worried about gas milage, buy a little four-cylinder pos from, well, you know where.

Everything I have researched on flat tappet lifters says pretty much the same thing. (YouTube has an excellent vid on the subject too)
Basically, all old school lifters are made right here in the USA. Michigan in fact. Regardless of what cam company is ordering them.

So, when someone says their Isky, or Edelbrock lifters or Elgin, or Comps lifters are superior or inferior to others, that's malarky.
They all come from the same place.
However, if a cam company adds their own advanced coating, to the base of the lifter later on at their facility, then they are not equal in quality.

 

What about the "overheating the engine because of the higher compression" statement?

 

Meh, unless you go crazy with a big block, you should be fine.

 

I have domed pistons at 10.44 comp ratio.
Runs 180* - 195* all day long.

 

I agree, I'm running 10.3 compression ratio and have zero issues with overheating.....completely stock cooling system.

 

If this is true it counterdicts other threads on lifters ive read here and in other threads. I would also question why one manufacturer would offer so many different designs of a SBC flat tappet lifter? and why the summit and comp catalogs would even mention one being made in the US but not another? Ive found very little facts and opinions from shops vary on whos lifters are better and whos are more prone to failure but I dont believe all these cam brands out there are selling the same Hylift -johnson made flat tappet lifters. The truth is usually somewhere in between.

Heres a quote from another thread in another forum from someone who deals with cams and lifters daily. according to them the american lifters are made in ohio for about 4 years now?

e: Lifter Manufactures And Who Are They

Post by CamKing » Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:57 am
Tom68 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:37 am The only rational reality is that a 3 decades ago oem stopped buying flat tappet and manufacturers went into struggle street.Not true. GM still sells multiple crate engines with flat tappet cams and lifters, and they warranty them. Go to almost any local circle track, and look at all the 602 crate engines racing every week.

There are 2 US cam core companies that sell flat tappet cores, and they both use the same foundry in Michigan. I've been buying the same cam cores from both companies for 40 years, and the quality hasn't changed. What changed, is the price. These U.S. cores are now twice as expensive as the imports, so many cam companies switched to the imports to save money.

There is now only 1 lifter company that still makes flat tappet lifters in the U.S.. I've been buying lifters from this company for 30 years, and even though they had to change to a new foundry in Ohio a couple of years age, the quality hasn't changed. What changed, is the price. These US lifters are now more than twice as expensive as the imports, so many cam companies switched to the imports to save money.

For 40 years, because I specialize in circle track racing, the majority of my cam sales are flat tappet cams(and lifters).
Most of these flat tappet cams are way more aggressive, with much more spring pressure then anything you would want to run on the street, yet our failure rate is well below 1%.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
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I also found this intresting info on the johnson company which could explain why Ive seen someone mention sealed power selling chinese made lifters now..

.by engineguyBill » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:44 am
Here is the real "skinny" on Johnson Lifters:

The Johnson Family founded American Hammered Piston Rings many years ago, in the 1920's as I recall. Eventually the Johnsons changed the name of the corporation to Sealed Power and added many other automotive engine products. Johnson HyLift was owned by the Johnson family, but it was operated separately from Sealed Power. Sealed Power and Johnson HyLift were headquartered in Muskegon, Michigan since the beginning. At some point the Sealed Power business was sold to SPX Corporation, a large automotive parts conglomeration. SPX eventually bought much of TRW's business including their piston ring manufacturing facilities, including their state-of-the-art ring plant in Manchester, Missouri. In 1996 Dana Corporation bought all of the Sealed Power piston ring manufacturing operations from SPX Corporation and included this business into their Perfect Circle Piston Ring Division, still headquartered on Sanford Street in Muskegon. In 2007 Dana sold most of their engine parts manufacturing business to MAHLE, a successful organization headquartered in Germany.
Johnson HyLift was not included in these transactions and continued to be run by SPX in Muskegon. Sometime in the early 2000's Johnson HyLift was purchased by a very energetic and successful businessman by the name of Chet Staron, who owns Topline Automotive Engineering. Chet continued operating Johnson HyLift in Muskegon, and he also has at least two locations in Florida. I have not kept up with Chet for a few years so am not sure if he still operates out of Muskegon or has moved that part of the business to Florida. Chet is a very colorful individual and he is well-known in the automotive parts manufacturing world. In summary, any lifter that is marketed by the name Johnson HyLift should be the genuine item, marketed through Topline Automotive Engineering and probably shipped from Muskegon, MI or Florida. BTW, Johnson HyLift got their start in the lifter business by supplying OEM "adjustable tappets" to Ford Motor Company for their new flathead V-8 engine, circa 1931 or so.
Bill

Perfect Circle Doctor of Motors certification
SAE Member (30 years)
ASE Master Certified Engine Machinist (+ two otherASE Master Certifications)
AERA Certified Professional Engine Machinist
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Thank you for the answers guys!

How do I know if the block needs to be decked? I really really hope not... Because that will be very costly and I will have to get the block out of the car etc.

 

If the surface is smooth you dont need to deck it. If its heavily pitted it should be decked. decking the block also raises compression. My 406 is decked but my 355 is not so I chose to use the .015 steel shim head gaskets instead to still give me a good quench area but since you have oem dished pistons this wont be much benefit to you.
Stock engines are not decked from the factory. The process machines a bit off the top.

 

Freight to Belgium is definately something to be reckoned with.
Small orders (Summit) are likely going UPS, by air, and it costs more.
A local European stocking supplier is likely making larger bulk stocking orders, and those go by sea freight container. Much less $.
Support your local guy if you can.
Figure out the X difference in the compression for X dollars.
Is it worth it?

And "experts" don't come much bigger than Mike Jones!

 

DHL is quite big in Europe.

 

It took me a while, but 'my comparison list' is finished for now.
The price between Flat tapped and Roller is... a lot....

The trip to the US wont be an option because of 'organisatory' reasons said my brother.
The prices are the cheapest I could find (Maybe ARP bolts are overkill?) and are a combination of Ebay, Amazon and the hot rod shop in The Netherlands.

Here is the comparison list:

PARTS for FLAT TAPPED HYDR. CAM. option:
-Edelbrock 5089 E-Street, 64cc heads (pair) -> € 1601,00
- COMP Cams 12-234-2 Xtreme Energy Hydr. Cam. -> € 284,75
- COMP Cams 812D-16 DLC High Energy Hydr. Lifters-> € 173,09
- COMP Cams 1412-16 Magnum Roller Rocker arm -> € 261,12
(1.52 Ratio Set w/ 3/8" Stud)
- Pushrods??? -> ???
- Fel-Pro 1205 Intake Manifold Gasket (pair) -> € 38,26
- FEL-PRO OS 34509 T Oil Pan Gasket Set (1pc) -> € 64,37
- FEL-PRO TCS 5124-1 Timing Cover Gasket Set -> € 23,13
- Fel-Pro 1604 CorkLam Valve Cover Gaskets (pair) -> € 57,95
- ARP 134-1801 12-Point Oil Pan Bolt Kit -> € 52,82
- ARP 134-3701 12-point Head Bolt Kit -> € 122,49
- ARP 2001501 12-pointTiming Cover Bolt Kit -> € 33,78
- Head gasket??? -> ???
- Oil pump??? -> ???
- COMP Cams 79051 Pushrod L. Checker ->€ 43,66
6.125-7.500, Magnum
TOTAL (incl. tax, shipping + import costs) = € 2756,42



PARTS for HYDR. ROLLER. CAM. option:
-Edelbrock 5089 E-Street, 64cc heads (pair) -> € 1601,00
- Edelbrock 5845 Sure Seat Valve Springs -> € 200,25
- Comp Cams 12-412-8 Xtreme Energy 212/218 Hydr. -> € 657,45
Roller Cam.
- Comp Cams 85301-16 Evolution Retro-Fit Hydr. -> € 830,48
Roller Lifters for 265-400 SBC (Set of 16)
- COMP Cams 1412-16 Magnum Roller Rocker arm -> € 261,12
(1.52 Ratio Set w/ 3/8" Stud)
- Pushrods??? -> ???
- Fel-Pro 1205 Intake Manifold Gasket (pair) -> € 38,26
- FEL-PRO OS 34509 T Oil Pan Gasket Set (1pc) -> € 64,37
- FEL-PRO TCS 5124-1 Timing Cover Gasket Set -> € 23,13
- Fel-Pro 1604 CorkLam Valve Cover Gaskets (pair) -> € 57,95
- ARP 134-1801 12-Point Oil Pan Bolt Kit -> € 52,82
- ARP 134-3701 12-point Head Bolt Kit -> € 122,49
- ARP 2001501 12-pointTiming Cover Bolt Kit -> € 33,78
- Head gasket??? -> ???
- Oil pump??? -> ???
- COMP Cams 79051 Pushrod L. Checker ->€ 43,66
6.125-7.500, Magnum

TOTAL (incl. tax, shipping + import costs) = € 3928,81

 

ARP bolts are cheap insurance.

 

You don't need them for the pan or the timing cover. stock bolts are fine. For the heads, I'd use them for that.

One other thing is 7/16" rocker studs and associated roller rockers provide far more stability for the valve train flat tappet or roller cam. For roller cam I'd use them for sure.
1,200 euro difference sounds about right for roller vs flat tappet.

 

;quick glance and you missed a hardened tip fuel pump pushrod and the spacer for the cam on the timing cover and a reinforced timing cover

 

Of course not, but ARP 12pt bolts look much better than the stock bolts. Get the whole kit.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...make/chevrolet

 

Good cam choice.
$1200 upgrade - yeah that's about right for a HR.
Once you go down that road it is a slippery slope!
The heads alone are your biggest flow/HP improvement...period...over any other engine mod. The CR is next.

The hydraulic flat tappet cam should last if you follow Jebbysan's cam break-in procedure.
He has that perfected to a science!
Take no short-cuts... it must fire at first hit of the key...and not idle....for 20 min
It might seem like overkill to some engine guys... but he has done a LOT of cams... and never lost one.
Overkill is good if it prevents you from pulling a new flattened lobe cam again right?

Anyone have that procedure copied?

 

I'm sorry to ask this, but what do you mean by 'a slippery slope'.
I searched the idiom on the internet. It says:
"A course of action likely to lead to something bad or disastrous."

​​​​​​​​​Do you mean that the chances are bigger that something bad will happen to the engine?
Or do you mean ones I go down the Roller cam road it will be costly?

 

No! ARP bolts are not an overkill. They are required. Never use stock head bolts on aluminum heads, ever.
The ARPs bolts have a built-in washer head plus another washer & lube to make sure the head of the bolt does not gouge the soft aluminum.
They are pricey. And that is why it's part of the "hidden cost" when switching to aluminum heads.

 

Better yet, get head studs.

(and a MLS head gasket)