brake master cylinder
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 1
From: Aussie expat in Saudi Arabia
brake master cylinder
Hey guys,
I've been reading through some posts here about brakes as mine are attrocious. I'll be replacing the master cylinder tomorrow, and from what I've read on here, it seems that spacing the master cylinder out from the booster lessens the brake pedal travel. True or urban myth??
I've been reading through some posts here about brakes as mine are attrocious. I'll be replacing the master cylinder tomorrow, and from what I've read on here, it seems that spacing the master cylinder out from the booster lessens the brake pedal travel. True or urban myth??
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 1
From: Aussie expat in Saudi Arabia
Originally Posted by Avette4me
I'm goin with urban myth for $500.00, Alex...
spacing it out will push it further away from the plunger and seems to me that would be a bad thing...
spacing it out will push it further away from the plunger and seems to me that would be a bad thing...
Maybe a longer plunger perhaps, but it had me buggered how spacing it further away was supposed to work better.The brakes are evil at the moment - the pedal goes almost to the floor. The brakes themselves were done not so long ago, but not the rusty lump hanging off the booster.
I had the lid off the MC today and gave the brake pedal a sharp jab and a nice little fountain of fluid leapt about 3 inches out of one of the reservoirs
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 1
From: Aussie expat in Saudi Arabia
No, as no matter how much you pump the pedal, it does not "improve" the feel. I wasn't bothered about buying a new MC as GM parts like that are mega cheap out here, so I'll chuck the new one on then bleed them.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 20
From: The only Corvettes in Highett Victoria
G'day from Down Under
G'day mate,
What part of GOC are you from? I'm in Melbourne and have been here (Forum) for a couple of years and own a '74 coupe. I'm a member of Vic Vettes, a part of the Chevrolet Car Club of Victoria Inc. As to the brakes, I've NEVER heard of spacing out the MC. The way I see it, General Motors didn't get to be the biggest car company in the world by not knowing how to design the braking systems of their vehicles.
Look us up on www.chevcarclubvic.org.au/vic_vettes and let us know when you're next in our neck of the woods.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
What part of GOC are you from? I'm in Melbourne and have been here (Forum) for a couple of years and own a '74 coupe. I'm a member of Vic Vettes, a part of the Chevrolet Car Club of Victoria Inc. As to the brakes, I've NEVER heard of spacing out the MC. The way I see it, General Motors didn't get to be the biggest car company in the world by not knowing how to design the braking systems of their vehicles.
Look us up on www.chevcarclubvic.org.au/vic_vettes and let us know when you're next in our neck of the woods.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
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From: Aussie expat in Saudi Arabia
G'day mate, nice to hear from someone else from GOC! I've been in Saudi for 6 years now and before that I was in the RAAF for 15 years, all at Amberley, near Brisbane. Before that, I grew up in Noosa! 
Are there many Vettes in Victoria? Over the years I've seen the odd one driving around Brisbane or a few at car shows. I've wanted one from as far back as I can remember, so I jumped at the chance to buy the one I have now. I plan to try and stay out here a few more years then return to Noosa with the car. As far as I've seen, mine's the only C3 getting around this dustbowl, :blush: although there's a C4 on the same compound that I live on and a few C5's getting around town.
I'll be back in Oz in October to get married, but we'll be spending all our time in Noosa and Brisbane. Thanks for the invite tho...
K, time to go and start putting the beast back together so that I can drive it to work tomorrow. The Crossfire engine and associated "computer" gear is long gone and I must have removed about 20 kilo's of hacked off wiring loom yesterday!!
Later....
Are there many Vettes in Victoria? Over the years I've seen the odd one driving around Brisbane or a few at car shows. I've wanted one from as far back as I can remember, so I jumped at the chance to buy the one I have now. I plan to try and stay out here a few more years then return to Noosa with the car. As far as I've seen, mine's the only C3 getting around this dustbowl, :blush: although there's a C4 on the same compound that I live on and a few C5's getting around town.
I'll be back in Oz in October to get married, but we'll be spending all our time in Noosa and Brisbane. Thanks for the invite tho...
K, time to go and start putting the beast back together so that I can drive it to work tomorrow. The Crossfire engine and associated "computer" gear is long gone and I must have removed about 20 kilo's of hacked off wiring loom yesterday!!
Later....
Last edited by saudivette; Jul 16, 2004 at 03:04 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 24,160
Likes: 78
Originally Posted by saudivette
Hey guys,
I've been reading through some posts here about brakes as mine are attrocious. I'll be replacing the master cylinder tomorrow, and from what I've read on here, it seems that spacing the master cylinder out from the booster lessens the brake pedal travel. True or urban myth??
I've been reading through some posts here about brakes as mine are attrocious. I'll be replacing the master cylinder tomorrow, and from what I've read on here, it seems that spacing the master cylinder out from the booster lessens the brake pedal travel. True or urban myth??
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 1
From: Aussie expat in Saudi Arabia
Ok, I give up! The beasty is going to the shop tomorrow to have the brakes done. New pads all round a few months ago, a new master cylinder today and the brakes are no better than they were before - that is, the pedal goes nearly all the way to the floor and certainly wouldn't pull the car up in a hurry if I was going fastish.
I bench bled the master cylinder before fitting it and bled the brakes in the correct order. The system just never seemed to get any better. Is there something I'm missing, could it be the proportioning valve or something else I've not thought of?
Anyway, it can be someone elses problem tomorrow!
I bench bled the master cylinder before fitting it and bled the brakes in the correct order. The system just never seemed to get any better. Is there something I'm missing, could it be the proportioning valve or something else I've not thought of?
Anyway, it can be someone elses problem tomorrow!
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 24,160
Likes: 78
Originally Posted by saudivette
Ok, I give up! The beasty is going to the shop tomorrow to have the brakes done. New pads all round a few months ago, a new master cylinder today and the brakes are no better than they were before - that is, the pedal goes nearly all the way to the floor and certainly wouldn't pull the car up in a hurry if I was going fastish.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 24,160
Likes: 78
Originally Posted by wcsinx
I know it sounds crazy, but in the space of one day, I heard of two guys having the exact same problem you describe due to a bad booster. It doesn't make sense to me one bit. I always assumed the booster push rods were end to end (i.e. solid link all the way through), but maybe this isn't the case. I think they both posted to my "Who here can lock up their brakes" thread. You might go poke through there and read their stories.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 1
From: Aussie expat in Saudi Arabia
Well, where there's smoke, there's generally something burning. I dunno how much a booster is out here, but I reckon I'll give it a go... They can't be that hard to change.
Thanks very much wcsinx
Thanks very much wcsinx
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 24,160
Likes: 78
Originally Posted by saudivette
I dunno how much a booster is out here, but I reckon I'll give it a go... They can't be that hard to change.
They actually can be quite a pain in the azz to swap out. The top left nut is hell to reach with the dash and column in place. (though I've heard it can be done) I can pull mine in about 10 minutes only because the last owner saw fit to leave the nut off that top left stud. And you know ... I think I agree with him in that respect.
Thanks very much wcsinx
Let us know what your results are.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 1
From: Aussie expat in Saudi Arabia
:mad 
!!!!!
Well, the booster is out. Coincidentally, so is most of my DASH!!!
What a load of old
it is to get that out?!?! I take back what I said ealier...
Oh well, at least I was able to remove some more wires that went nowhere & another million or so tiewraps! I've also done a few wee repairs to the dash while it was sitting on the kitchen table and after numerous, long stares at the steering wheel (mainly when my head was jammed under/beside/IN it, I've decided to pull it off and repaint it!
Mind you, the new booster isn't in yet. Anyone coming to Saudi on vacation who wants to keep their "mechanical" hand in while they're here???
!!!!!Well, the booster is out. Coincidentally, so is most of my DASH!!!
What a load of old
it is to get that out?!?! I take back what I said ealier...Oh well, at least I was able to remove some more wires that went nowhere & another million or so tiewraps! I've also done a few wee repairs to the dash while it was sitting on the kitchen table and after numerous, long stares at the steering wheel (mainly when my head was jammed under/beside/IN it, I've decided to pull it off and repaint it!
Mind you, the new booster isn't in yet. Anyone coming to Saudi on vacation who wants to keep their "mechanical" hand in while they're here???
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 24,160
Likes: 78
Originally Posted by saudivette
:mad banghead: !!!!!
Well, the booster is out. Coincidentally, so is most of my DASH!!!
What a load of old it is to get that out?!?! I take back what I said ealier...
!!!!!Well, the booster is out. Coincidentally, so is most of my DASH!!!
What a load of old
it is to get that out?!?! I take back what I said ealier... I'll spare you the "I told you so" speach. That top left is a bizzitch, ain't it? When you put it back on, I'd honestly say just leave that nut off. Mine held fine with 3 for 2.5 years of my ownership, and no telling how many more before me. Without that nut in place, you can pull the booster in about 10 minutes flat. Did you have to crack the MC? Are you rebuilding/replacing the MC as well? Might be a good time to just for peace of mind if nothing else.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 633
Likes: 1
From: Hamilton, ON, Canada
Let us know if replacing the booster solves the problem. I'm having the same problem myself. Replaced the master cylinder and bled the system about 5 or 6 times and still no hard pedal. I was thinking of dropping in some Viagra but I'll wait to see if the booster replacement works.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,757
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From: Buckeye, AZ
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
Bleeding C3 Vettes in the right order is different than most cars...beware of this. I had the same problem unitl I bled in the right sequence per the Chevy Shop Manual. I was alos getting a soft pedal every now and then. It was the master......there was sludge and the piston seals were flattened. I opted to rebuild it to keep my orignal numbers. The removal, rebuild, bench bleed and reinstall took around an hour. The bleeding seuqnce was crucial. It is not simply fatrhtest ot closest on a C3. BEWARE of this. These brake posts pop up about once a month here!
Pro
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 633
Likes: 1
From: Hamilton, ON, Canada
There seems to be two schools of though on bleed sequence- the Corvette shop manual for 1975 says bleed nearest to farthest. Others like SSBC say the reverse. I've done it both ways and still a soft pedal. I've done both vacuum bleed and manual with someone pumping the pedal- still a soft pedal. New master cylinder & still a soft pedal. The only thing left is the booster although I can't see how that will cause a soft pedal. It's not mentioned in the Shop Manual troubleshooting section.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 24,160
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Originally Posted by 75 Hot One
There seems to be two schools of though on bleed sequence- the Corvette shop manual for 1975 says bleed nearest to farthest. Others like SSBC say the reverse. I've done it both ways and still a soft pedal. I've done both vacuum bleed and manual with someone pumping the pedal- still a soft pedal. New master cylinder & still a soft pedal. The only thing left is the booster although I can't see how that will cause a soft pedal. It's not mentioned in the Shop Manual troubleshooting section.
1. Driver Rear Inner
2. Driver Rear Outer
3. Pass. Rear Inner
4. Pass. Rear Outer
5. Driver Front
6. Pass. Front
Though if you're like Norval et. al. and have removed your distribution block/proportioning valve, then it doesn't matter if you do front or rear first. Some guys say they don't follow the recommended order, and they still get a solid pedal. Other guys say they didn't get a solid pedal until they followed the above order. Honestly I think it has a lot more to do with the nut behind the wheel, and how well he bleeds each corner rather than what order he bleeds them in. But just to be sure, I follow the weird bleed order.
:flag
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 11,361
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From: Plano TX
Guys, one of the best investments I've ever made was the $65 for a power bleeder. Just clamp it on the MC, pump it up to 10 PSI and open the bleeders in any order I feel like. Longest part of the project is removing the rear wheels. Fronts can stay on. On the rears I do both bleeders a few times. Takes all the frustration out of bleeding C3 brakes.