the new C8
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,384
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
The C8 Z51 HAD BETTER be faster than the C7 Z51. It has a bunch more hp, a bunch more aero, and a much better trans. The base C7 car was about 4 seconds slower than the c8z51. For reference, the difference between the LS and LS3 Z51 cars (30hp) was worth 2.5 seconds. So what are the braking, aero, eLSD, etc of the C7 Z51 worth over the base C7?
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,925
Likes: 610
From: Orange, CA
But wasn't the mid engine platform all conqueaing? Wasn't it necessary because they had reached the limits of FR (pay no.mind to the ring record holder being FR). If the drivetrain is so clearly better, then there should be no excuses, especially with the dramatic improvement in transmission.
I do look forward to the higher-end models. Maybe GM will care enough to head over to the 'Ring and indulge you there as well.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,943
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
Realistically every base car has out performed the last gens base car. As they all should. The C8 is no exception. That being said, the bar was already pretty high with the C7 and while yes, the C8 hooks much better, any vehicle with a bit more power on a track will out run the base model.
You can only make up so much with gearing... it is impressive but the higher power variants are what is going to show the improvements in the WD... so long as GM puts a better alignment on it from the factory. That seems to be the biggest complaint at the moment is it under steers a little and snaps without power. I think GM gave randy pobst an alignment to test o. The track and he liked the new one... you know. Nothing that can't be fixed like I said. Just little things. The car is and always will be targeted to grocery getters anyway. Very rare you see people actually pushing the things on the track. I give credit to those who do but most people just want something cool for the street.
You can only make up so much with gearing... it is impressive but the higher power variants are what is going to show the improvements in the WD... so long as GM puts a better alignment on it from the factory. That seems to be the biggest complaint at the moment is it under steers a little and snaps without power. I think GM gave randy pobst an alignment to test o. The track and he liked the new one... you know. Nothing that can't be fixed like I said. Just little things. The car is and always will be targeted to grocery getters anyway. Very rare you see people actually pushing the things on the track. I give credit to those who do but most people just want something cool for the street.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 986
Likes: 487
I don't know that I would say much better, but sure they're better. The pilot sport 4s is supposed to be God's gift to humans in tire form if you listen to the Michelin zealots. But wasn't the mid engine platform all conqueaing? Wasn't it necessary because they had reached the limits of FR (pay no.mind to the ring record holder being FR). If the drivetrain is so clearly better, then there should be no excuses, especially with the dramatic improvement in transmission.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 326
From: Central Pennsylvannia
2021 C4 of the Year - Modified Finalist
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
I suppose your right, but i cant afford one of those cars, scratching together the cash to buy my C4 took awhile, im just looking at this from a pay as you go kinda way. Now if i had a windfall of some major cash, id be interested, but that's unlikely. So when i say i wouldnt shell out 80 grand for one>? i really mean, I cant shell out 80 grand for one. haha
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,314
Likes: 508
From: South-central Missouri
Adjusted for inflation, the $60k sticker price for a 1990 ZR-1 would be @ $120k today. So, at $80k ($40k in 1990 dollars) isn't cheap (by my standards), but not really so bad (in the performance perspective). However, I'd "keep my powder dry for a while yet: I've got a feeling there's a lot more shaking out yet to come on the C8s!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,383
Likes: 385
From: Leland , North Carolina
Couple of points...
Finally putting the engine in the right place in the car was going to change the styling radically. 100% worth it, should have happened in 1997.
The traction advantage is prodigious... Real-world, on the streets, C8's are giving cars as quick as Hellcats fits. While the Hellcat is manufacturing tire smoke, the C8 just hooks and goes.
C8 vs. any other gen Corvette? You can spend money to take a C4-C7 and match a C8 in some single performance measure, but you will never match it in all of them simultaneously.
Electric is coming, and it's coming to the C8, at least in hybrid form. Instant 150-200hp.
Electric is coming, and its dominance over ICE is inevitable. Think you're fast? McLaren has an electric prototype running around with a 500hp motor... AT... EACH... WHEEL. 2000hp. That's two L98's or an LS7 AT EVERY CORNER.
Torque you say? Infinite.
Finally putting the engine in the right place in the car was going to change the styling radically. 100% worth it, should have happened in 1997.
The traction advantage is prodigious... Real-world, on the streets, C8's are giving cars as quick as Hellcats fits. While the Hellcat is manufacturing tire smoke, the C8 just hooks and goes.
C8 vs. any other gen Corvette? You can spend money to take a C4-C7 and match a C8 in some single performance measure, but you will never match it in all of them simultaneously.
Electric is coming, and it's coming to the C8, at least in hybrid form. Instant 150-200hp.
Electric is coming, and its dominance over ICE is inevitable. Think you're fast? McLaren has an electric prototype running around with a 500hp motor... AT... EACH... WHEEL. 2000hp. That's two L98's or an LS7 AT EVERY CORNER.
Torque you say? Infinite.
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Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
The problem with electric is down the road when the warranty is up and the electric motor craps out. It's expensive. Everything is getting out of control cost wise with automobiles.
I have a few friends who restore old cars and they are swamped with work. A lot of older trucks .The cost of a new truck these days vs putting 20 k in an old one that is much more simple is keeping them busy.... Same with older cars.
I have a few friends who restore old cars and they are swamped with work. A lot of older trucks .The cost of a new truck these days vs putting 20 k in an old one that is much more simple is keeping them busy.... Same with older cars.
IDK. I see a lot of body shops that are doing collision only. More today than a decade ago, for instance. Less and less want to do restoration work. My thought was that as we are moving to a more disposable society, your friends kind of shop might be to a niche crowd.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,384
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
Adjusted for inflation, the $60k sticker price for a 1990 ZR-1 would be @ $120k today. So, at $80k ($40k in 1990 dollars) isn't cheap (by my standards), but not really so bad (in the performance perspective).However, I'd "keep my powder dry for a while yet: I've got a feeling there's a lot more shaking out yet to come on the C8s!
The auto industry needs to recognize their top priority right now for survival needs to be holding costs down. They need to be able to provide year over year price cuts, without reducing content or quality to survive. At the end of the day, people will always spend on housing, food, water, power, and communications before a car. Many people will spend on other stuff before a car as well. They're hoping an electric mandate will save them from their bad choices, but it won't, it will just further reinforce their doom.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
The zr1 was also blasted at the time for being way too expensive. It like nearly doubled the price of the car. The other issue is that while the price may not have gone up "that much adjusted for inflation", buying power has gone way, way down. The auto industry is struggling with the realization that they're not food, water, or shelter providers. They offer a luxury purchase, and every year the average family has less money for that. We also live in a far less certain world, people don't have pensions, 401ks have gone through several value erasers just in my short lifetime that basically made people go from "secure retirement" to "not financially viable" for years.
The auto industry needs to recognize their top priority right now for survival needs to be holding costs down. They need to be able to provide year over year price cuts, without reducing content or quality to survive. At the end of the day, people will always spend on housing, food, water, power, and communications before a car. Many people will spend on other stuff before a car as well. They're hoping an electric mandate will save them from their bad choices, but it won't, it will just further reinforce their doom.
The auto industry needs to recognize their top priority right now for survival needs to be holding costs down. They need to be able to provide year over year price cuts, without reducing content or quality to survive. At the end of the day, people will always spend on housing, food, water, power, and communications before a car. Many people will spend on other stuff before a car as well. They're hoping an electric mandate will save them from their bad choices, but it won't, it will just further reinforce their doom.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 986
Likes: 487
Seriously...
Look at the date that was published and then get back to us...
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Seriously, it is a car purchase not an induction into some cabal with an identification card and a tattoo on the privates.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 326
From: Central Pennsylvannia
2021 C4 of the Year - Modified Finalist
Everything you said is true but there is a codicil. You are thinking "old school"(rationally) and that doesn't happen today with many of the y/z's. Back in the day, we assessed our ability to pay for something and what we were willing to sacrifice to get it.(longer hours, second job, cutbacks in other areas etc). We saved up and put down a considerable chunk of change if financing. Paying off a loan as soon as possible was at the forefront. Not today. The first question asked now by purchasers is "What are the payments"? If it fits into the ability to pay at TODAY'S conditions, then "Let's go for it". No thought whatsoever for changing conditions.(maybe some will learn after this covid crisis is over - maybe). Today's consumer doesn't want to wait for something. They want it RIGHT NOW and will sell their soul to the devil to accomplish it. The auto manufacturers don't have to worry about holding costs down. Today's consumer will adjust their level of "acceptance of pain" in order to put their hands on something they shouldn't be buying if they are financially prudent. The lending institutions will simply adjust the term to accommodate the monthly payment. Problem solved!
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,475
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
I agree with the assessment, seems I worked longer and harder than most of the Gen Y/Z's and for a lot less money. Hell I don't know anyone in that age group that would even consider doing what I did for a living at that age.
Eh, OK, I'm not bitchin about it, but if I want something before i croak, i think the hell with my kids inheritance, I think I'll get it. and if I have to go in hock for 10 yrs...so be it
Eh, OK, I'm not bitchin about it, but if I want something before i croak, i think the hell with my kids inheritance, I think I'll get it. and if I have to go in hock for 10 yrs...so be it
Way I see it and told Dad, if he wanted to blow everything he owned on hookers, I'd be so pissed with him when I found out unless he invited me too. Beyond that, it's his money and he does as he pleases with it. I don't need to know and I don't want to know. If he has anything left that he gives me, fine. If not and he had a good time, I'm good with it.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 504
Likes: 82
From: Melbourne Victoria
The problem with electric is down the road when the warranty is up and the electric motor craps out. It's expensive. Everything is getting out of control cost wise with automobiles. I have a few friends who restore old cars and they are swamped with work. A lot of older trucks .The cost of a new truck these days vs putting 20 k in an old one that is much more simple is keeping them busy.... Same with older cars.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
Right on the money! You can't get much simpler than a core spinning inside a cage of windings. Zero moving parts but the core itself. Man has an amazing ability to identify problems and adapt solutions. Look around, there are thousands of examples. From washing machines to jet airliners, there is not one thing that didn't have certain problems or restrictions that the powers to be weren't able to solve or make better. How many here have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their ride for new aftermarket heads, specialty pistons, forged cranks etc., etc. in addition to hundreds of hours of work in an attempt to be "quicker" than before. Yet take it to the strip, put a Tesla beside it and the Tesla will have their *** - right off the showroom floor! Presently, the biggest concern is battery range. That too will be solved. You can bet there is a multitude of companies and individuals working on solving this problem. Remember, it's not that long ago that the present batteries being used were not in existence.