the new C8
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,383
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
Right on the money! You can't get much simpler than a core spinning inside a cage of windings. Zero moving parts but the core itself. Man has an amazing ability to identify problems and adapt solutions. Look around, there are thousands of examples. From washing machines to jet airliners, there is not one thing that didn't have certain problems or restrictions that the powers to be weren't able to solve or make better. How many here have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their ride for new aftermarket heads, specialty pistons, forged cranks etc., etc. in addition to hundreds of hours of work in an attempt to be "quicker" than before. Yet take it to the strip, put a Tesla beside it and the Tesla will have their *** - right off the showroom floor! Presently, the biggest concern is battery range. That too will be solved. You can bet there is a multitude of companies and individuals working on solving this problem. Remember, it's not that long ago that the present batteries being used were not in existence.
Now think about those pushing the narrative, investment banks and tech companies. These are the same people who push for you to replace your cell phone yearly. They've figured out that chips wear out even less than electric motors, so they intentionally bloat your devices with software to slow them down (or if it's an Apple they just actually slow it down as it ages). They do this so you replace it more frequently, and they can sell you a new one.
Anyone who truly believes that an EV is going to last what they should "in theory" is insane, or has never used a smartphone or computer. They will put in so much planned obsolescence it's not even funny,
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 765
Likes: 49
From: West Palm Beach,Florida
Tatto
I did not know that. I didn't conduct a poll so I wasn't sure. How did you ascertain that? Also maybe you need to get the buyers to do a background check to ascertain that they have been in love with the corvette, willing to join the lifestyle, do the wave, etc.
Seriously, it is a car purchase not an induction into some cabal with an identification card and a tattoo on the privates.
Seriously, it is a car purchase not an induction into some cabal with an identification card and a tattoo on the privates.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,474
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Right on the money! You can't get much simpler than a core spinning inside a cage of windings. Zero moving parts but the core itself. Man has an amazing ability to identify problems and adapt solutions. Look around, there are thousands of examples. From washing machines to jet airliners, there is not one thing that didn't have certain problems or restrictions that the powers to be weren't able to solve or make better. How many here have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on their ride for new aftermarket heads, specialty pistons, forged cranks etc., etc. in addition to hundreds of hours of work in an attempt to be "quicker" than before. Yet take it to the strip, put a Tesla beside it and the Tesla will have their *** - right off the showroom floor! Presently, the biggest concern is battery range. That too will be solved. You can bet there is a multitude of companies and individuals working on solving this problem. Remember, it's not that long ago that the present batteries being used were not in existence.
I think that infrastructure for charging and charging speed are also important
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
It definitely is and you can bet they are also working on that. I can foresee a situation where you pull onto a ramp of sorts, a couple of latches are undone, the whole battery drops out, exchange put in and your on your way in about the same time as it takes to fill your tank now.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,474
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
It definitely is and you can bet they are also working on that. I can foresee a situation where you pull onto a ramp of sorts, a couple of latches are undone, the whole battery drops out, exchange put in and your on your way in about the same time as it takes to fill your tank now.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 765
Likes: 49
From: West Palm Beach,Florida
Never
And that is the day I am looking for. At which point, if it is widespread enough, I will break my rule and buy a new car. Maybe, you buy the car but don't own the battery so there is no issue of you giving me a near dead battery for my brand new battery? I'd be over that. Then the couple of states that demand that I cannot fill my own gas will have company and "fuel stations" and attendants. Kids have jobs.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,383
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
It definitely is and you can bet they are also working on that. I can foresee a situation where you pull onto a ramp of sorts, a couple of latches are undone, the whole battery drops out, exchange put in and your on your way in about the same time as it takes to fill your tank now.
Batteries are a short term fix. Unfortunately big money interests and short sighted politicians don't want people to realize that, because then spending trillions of YOUR money on their cronies companies, and make their billionaire investor owners even more rich.
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Drifting
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 326
From: Central Pennsylvannia
2021 C4 of the Year - Modified Finalist
Thank you for your interest.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 765
Likes: 49
From: West Palm Beach,Florida
Electric vehicles would never work for at least 30 years. The idiots at GM are planning to go all electric in FOURTEEN YEARS! WE have no infrastructure for that. Our neighborhoods cant supply enough electricity to charge cars in our driveways. What about people who live in cities in apartment buildings ? How do they charge. Let alone a high rise. It is idiotic to think of an all electric fleet
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,474
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
As others said, what happens when your brand new car gets swapped with the POS one out of my 15 year old one that I run dead all the time? What about different battery sizes? Is everyone going to be forced into the largest pack size so those damn poor people have to take government transit? If we were going to put that much money and energy and investment into something, wouldn't it be better to put it into something that doesn't end with a bunch of battery backs that are genuine garbage after a few years with no value except as toxic waste?
Batteries are a short term fix. Unfortunately big money interests and short sighted politicians don't want people to realize that, because then spending trillions of YOUR money on their cronies companies, and make their billionaire investor owners even more rich.
Batteries are a short term fix. Unfortunately big money interests and short sighted politicians don't want people to realize that, because then spending trillions of YOUR money on their cronies companies, and make their billionaire investor owners even more rich.
I also think that the problem is short sighted people. You re-vote in a politician that does short sighed things because it benefits you in the short run. That sends the message that this kind of work is what you want. You voted yourself a raise and kept doing it till the company went bankrupt but don't blame yourself? I don't agree with that.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,474
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Not to belabor your point, In my case that would be a no, my grandfather was an executive for national fuel, my Dad worked as a General manager in a dept store, I on the other hand started my work career on the slaughter house floor killing cattle, and cutting swinging beef.
Thank you for your interest.
Thank you for your interest.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,474
Likes: 3,291
From: Hartford WI
Electric vehicles would never work for at least 30 years. The idiots at GM are planning to go all electric in FOURTEEN YEARS! WE have no infrastructure for that. Our neighborhoods cant supply enough electricity to charge cars in our driveways. What about people who live in cities in apartment buildings ? How do they charge. Let alone a high rise. It is idiotic to think of an all electric fleet
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
As others said, what happens when your brand new car gets swapped with the POS one out of my 15 year old one that I run dead all the time? What about different battery sizes? Is everyone going to be forced into the largest pack size so those damn poor people have to take government transit? If we were going to put that much money and energy and investment into something, wouldn't it be better to put it into something that doesn't end with a bunch of battery backs that are genuine garbage after a few years with no value except as toxic waste?
Batteries are a short term fix. Unfortunately big money interests and short sighted politicians don't want people to realize that, because then spending trillions of YOUR money on their cronies companies, and make their billionaire investor owners even more rich.
Batteries are a short term fix. Unfortunately big money interests and short sighted politicians don't want people to realize that, because then spending trillions of YOUR money on their cronies companies, and make their billionaire investor owners even more rich.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
Electric vehicles would never work for at least 30 years. The idiots at GM are planning to go all electric in FOURTEEN YEARS! WE have no infrastructure for that. Our neighborhoods cant supply enough electricity to charge cars in our driveways. What about people who live in cities in apartment buildings ? How do they charge. Let alone a high rise. It is idiotic to think of an all electric fleet
Get used to it, it's coming and you or anyone else is not going to stop it. Last year, 2.5 million electric vehicles were sold and that is expected to increase this year by 70%. Volvo will sell nothing but electric by 2030. A mere 9 years away! Seemingly insurmountable problems are only difficulties that don't have a solution yet.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,383
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
How do we do it with propane? Don't you have propane exchange places that take a tank and swap it for a full one? I might be wrong but I feel there used to be more places that filled them. Today, there are not as many that do and more exchange places. Like I said, we can own it and charge it or just get a charged one and swap.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,383
Likes: 6,527
From: Melbourne, FL
As I stated before, man has a great ability to adapt to problems. Technology has many solutions. These batteries could all be electronically tracked. Age, charge condition, number of charge cycles it has been through etc etc. The cost of the exchange would factor in all this plus the condition of your battery you are giving up. Price calculated and presented in seconds. You have the option of different grades of fuel now, why do you believe you wouldn't have the same option with battery sizes? What are we doing presently with expired batteries? Are they not "toxic waste". To restate - technology is advancing at an astounding rate. The issues mentioned are minor. Remember when everyone thought it was hilarious every time Maxwell Smart answered his shoephone?
Your unbridled optimism is nice, but misplaced. It doesn't matter what Volvo does, they're owned by Geely and so they can easily pivot to say "Volvo Electric, Geely ICE". They were bought solely to get a foothold in the 1st world to sell Chinese cars.
If we spent the money it would take to build out this battery swapping system across the country, we could instead spend that money on a hydrogen infrastructure that would come without the drawbacks of batteries. The future may one day be electric cars, but they will be hydrogen powered, not battery.
Oh, and the 2.5 million EVs sold (globally) consist largely of cheap Chinese quasi-cars that no westerner would sit in, and is out of nearly 74 million cars total, so not exactly a sizeable percentage.
Last edited by FAUEE; Apr 4, 2021 at 01:19 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
Lithium batteries certainly are toxic waste. You can't just toss them in the trash like a banana peel, they have to be disposed of properly, and unlike say, an ICE, they can't be rebuilt.
Your unbridled optimism is nice, but misplaced. It doesn't matter what Volvo does, they're owned by Geely and so they can easily pivot to say "Volvo Electric, Geely ICE". They were bought solely to get a foothold in the 1st world to sell Chinese cars.
If we spent the money it would take to build out this battery swapping system across the country, we could instead spend that money on a hydrogen infrastructure that would come without the drawbacks of batteries. The future may one day be electric cars, but they will be hydrogen powered, not battery.
Oh, and the 2.5 million EVs sold (globally) consist largely of cheap Chinese quasi-cars that no westerner would sit in, and is out of nearly 74 million cars total, so not exactly a sizeable percentage.
Your unbridled optimism is nice, but misplaced. It doesn't matter what Volvo does, they're owned by Geely and so they can easily pivot to say "Volvo Electric, Geely ICE". They were bought solely to get a foothold in the 1st world to sell Chinese cars.
If we spent the money it would take to build out this battery swapping system across the country, we could instead spend that money on a hydrogen infrastructure that would come without the drawbacks of batteries. The future may one day be electric cars, but they will be hydrogen powered, not battery.
Oh, and the 2.5 million EVs sold (globally) consist largely of cheap Chinese quasi-cars that no westerner would sit in, and is out of nearly 74 million cars total, so not exactly a sizeable percentage.
My "unbridled optimism" is certainly NOT misplaced. It is your "we've always did it this way" old-school thinking that is misplaced. And you really ought to do some research before you make your ridiculous claims. The top selling EV is the Tesla, by far. Here are the sales figures for September 2020. This CORRECT information is easy to find - give it a try.'
The Tesla Model 3, as usual, was the top-selling electric car with no other model even close to its 43,055 units.
The second best was the tiny Wuling Hong Guang MINI EV (14,495), followed by another Tesla - Model Y (12,685), which managed to beat the Renault ZOE (11,267). Those were the only four EVs above 10,000 units.
Volkswagen ID.3 broke into the top five for the month with 8,576, ahead of Hyundai Kona Electric (8,014), and probably soon will appear in the top 20.
The top-selling models last month were:
- Tesla Model 3 - 43,055 (#1 YTD: 238,170)
- Wuling's Hong Guang MINI EV - 14,495 (#7 YTD: 32,041)
- Tesla Model Y - 12,685 (#3 YTD: 41,692)
- Renault ZOE - 11,267 (#2 YTD: 64,143)
- Volkswagen ID.3 - 8,576
- Hyundai Kona Electric - 8,014 (#4 YTD: 39,935)
That is an equivalent of 4.9% of the total car market, which means that one in 20 new cars is already rechargeable.
Last edited by arbee; Apr 4, 2021 at 01:49 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
Great question. The answer is everyone has the same basic tank or they get theirs filled (FYI, uhaul and tractor Supply fill tanks quite reasonably, it's like half the cost of a swap). That works fine for a grill, because a) the capacity doesn't degrade over time, and b) they last a long time, even if you use them a lot. When you're talking about a 300 mile range battery pack, you're gonna swap that out a lot more. And if you get a bad one, you might pay for 300 miles of range, but only get 200 miles. Let alone that means that an econobox needs to use the same battery as a high end luxury 3 row suv towing a boat.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 812
From: Saskatoon Sask.
Lithium batteries certainly are toxic waste. You can't just toss them in the trash like a banana peel, they have to be disposed of properly, and unlike say, an ICE, they can't be rebuilt.
Your unbridled optimism is nice, but misplaced. It doesn't matter what Volvo does, they're owned by Geely and so they can easily pivot to say "Volvo Electric, Geely ICE". They were bought solely to get a foothold in the 1st world to sell Chinese cars.
If we spent the money it would take to build out this battery swapping system across the country, we could instead spend that money on a hydrogen infrastructure that would come without the drawbacks of batteries. The future may one day be electric cars, but they will be hydrogen powered, not battery.
Oh, and the 2.5 million EVs sold (globally) consist largely of cheap Chinese quasi-cars that no westerner would sit in, and is out of nearly 74 million cars total, so not exactly a sizeable percentage.
Your unbridled optimism is nice, but misplaced. It doesn't matter what Volvo does, they're owned by Geely and so they can easily pivot to say "Volvo Electric, Geely ICE". They were bought solely to get a foothold in the 1st world to sell Chinese cars.
If we spent the money it would take to build out this battery swapping system across the country, we could instead spend that money on a hydrogen infrastructure that would come without the drawbacks of batteries. The future may one day be electric cars, but they will be hydrogen powered, not battery.
Oh, and the 2.5 million EVs sold (globally) consist largely of cheap Chinese quasi-cars that no westerner would sit in, and is out of nearly 74 million cars total, so not exactly a sizeable percentage.
Fueling
Specifically, it has proven exceptionally challenging, complex, and expensive to build and support a network of consumer fueling stations that delivers a highly explosive gas, compressed to 10,000 psi, reliably, quickly, and safely.A decade ago, California Assembly Bill 8 mandated a plan to spend $100 million establishing a network of 100 hydrogen fueling stations by 2020. Each of them costs about $2 million, at least in 2014. The state will not reach that goal, but it remains the sole state among 50 where hydrogen cars can be operated for daily use.
As of April 8, according to California Fuel Cell Partnership data, the state had 40 operating hydrogen stations. Another nine were under construction or being commissioned to open. Nine more were in various stages of planning, and three were listed as not operational. Almost five years after the first Toyota Mirai was delivered, that’s not terribly impressive.