360 Modena vs lt4
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 6
From: NS
Originally Posted by LT4CompYell
00 360 Modena 395hp 275tq 6spd 3065lbs
0-60 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0@112
Trying to understand something here: why the low torque number in the Ferrari? What could account for this, design, internal additions, extra cams, etc.?
0-60 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0@112
Trying to understand something here: why the low torque number in the Ferrari? What could account for this, design, internal additions, extra cams, etc.?
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 81,241
Likes: 3,063
From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by LT4CompYell
00 360 Modena 395hp 275tq 6spd 3065lbs
0-60 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0@112
Trying to understand something here: why the low torque number in the Ferrari? What could account for this, design, internal additions, extra cams, etc.?
0-60 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0@112
Trying to understand something here: why the low torque number in the Ferrari? What could account for this, design, internal additions, extra cams, etc.?
As one person has already posted the Ferrari doesn't come alive til 4k.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 936
Likes: 3
From: Prattville, AL. My Dog Thinks I'm Cool!
Originally Posted by LT4CompYell
00 360 Modena 395hp 275tq 6spd 3065lbs
0-60 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0@112
Trying to understand something here: why the low torque number in the Ferrari? What could account for this, design, internal additions, extra cams, etc.?
0-60 4.5 1/4 mile 13.0@112
Trying to understand something here: why the low torque number in the Ferrari? What could account for this, design, internal additions, extra cams, etc.?
( 
with cuisinartvette)
Last edited by pletner; Dec 19, 2005 at 07:41 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 0
From: bakersfield cali
modena
I raced I modena, beat him by two lenghts, no drag radials, not totally dialed in either, with a 100 shot of spray, i suspect that the guy did not know how to drive his car, does an F-1 gear box have the paddles on it? He had paddles on his car.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,348
Likes: 233
From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
Originally Posted by 86VX1
does an F-1 gear box have the paddles on it? He had paddles on his car.
I don't think they'd be the hot setup on the street....
Larry
code5coupe
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,043
Likes: 3
From: San Jose Pat Tillman - American Hero
Torque has never been Ferrari's thing. Hi-revving, low displacement motors, OTOH, have been. The 250GTO's engine was a 2.9L 12-cylinder! Can you imagine the size of the piston?
The F1 transmission will make a difference. It can shift quicker than you can, guaranteed. I say that the race will be won or lost in the first couple hundred feet, which favors the LT4. I know a local guy with a Modena...I'll have to see if he wants to give it a go sometime on the track.
The F1 transmission will make a difference. It can shift quicker than you can, guaranteed. I say that the race will be won or lost in the first couple hundred feet, which favors the LT4. I know a local guy with a Modena...I'll have to see if he wants to give it a go sometime on the track.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 980
Likes: 2
From: Chandler AZ
What kind of racing are you asking about.
What type of race?? There are a lot of LTx cars out there that are stock engined with just gears or a few bolt ons that that would take the Modena in the 1/4 provided the drivers are the same skill. I think the Ferrari would take it in road racing with the same skill drivers. Then there is a top speed run.
Tune the stock LT4, give it sticky tires and a PROFESSIONAL driver and it is the VETTE in the 1/4.
Tune the stock LT4, give it sticky tires and a PROFESSIONAL driver and it is the VETTE in the 1/4.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
years ago, at a track event, I didn't have any trouble keeping up with F355s. Could overtake them coming out of slow corners and in the short straights of the Nelson track at Shannonville Motorsport park.
The only problem was trying to get the Vetter to stop! Ferraris gained and passed under braking. I'm sure this could be addressed with aftermarket brakes.
All told there were some pretty pissed Ferrari owners that their $230K rides weren't any faster that a reasonably well driven $13K clapped out old Corvette. The year before I did the same thing to them in a 1993 Mustang 5.0L Lx. Fond memories.
The only problem was trying to get the Vetter to stop! Ferraris gained and passed under braking. I'm sure this could be addressed with aftermarket brakes.
All told there were some pretty pissed Ferrari owners that their $230K rides weren't any faster that a reasonably well driven $13K clapped out old Corvette. The year before I did the same thing to them in a 1993 Mustang 5.0L Lx. Fond memories.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,141
Likes: 2
From: Pittsburgh Pa
Originally Posted by REDC4CORVETTE
The f car would give you a run for your money .But FACT IS the car only turns 12.70 at 114 to 116 if it gets traction,in the 1/4 mile.
If you change to 1.6 RR and race fuel and get the tires to grip you can beat him in the 1/4 mile with a good light. On the street ,you could get him off the line on the street ,The F car spinns the tires alot before it gets traction.
If you change to 1.6 RR and race fuel and get the tires to grip you can beat him in the 1/4 mile with a good light. On the street ,you could get him off the line on the street ,The F car spinns the tires alot before it gets traction.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 8,683
Likes: 6
From: Phoenix AZ
The short stroke is not the reason the 360 has low torque, it's because of the displacement...it has a 3.6 liter engine.
The short stroke is where it gets it's high horsepower though because it allows the engine to rev higher.
The short stroke is where it gets it's high horsepower though because it allows the engine to rev higher.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Two_Tone
years ago, at a track event, I didn't have any trouble keeping up with F355s. Could overtake them coming out of slow corners and in the short straights of the Nelson track at Shannonville Motorsport park.
The only problem was trying to get the Vetter to stop! Ferraris gained and passed under braking. I'm sure this could be addressed with aftermarket brakes.
All told there were some pretty pissed Ferrari owners that their $230K rides weren't any faster that a reasonably well driven $13K clapped out old Corvette. The year before I did the same thing to them in a 1993 Mustang 5.0L Lx. Fond memories.
The only problem was trying to get the Vetter to stop! Ferraris gained and passed under braking. I'm sure this could be addressed with aftermarket brakes.
All told there were some pretty pissed Ferrari owners that their $230K rides weren't any faster that a reasonably well driven $13K clapped out old Corvette. The year before I did the same thing to them in a 1993 Mustang 5.0L Lx. Fond memories.
Over the years I have come across a couple of fairly well driven 355's and one well driven 360. The 355's and my stock LT4 are very close. the LT4 torque would give me a couple of car lengths out of the corners and the Ferrari brakes and rear weight balance would give them back at the end of the straight. Good fun!
The 360 was slower than my LT4 coming out of the corner, but as it wound up it would pull away a few car lengths similar to a C5 ZO6. In a drag race it would probably come down to the launch. If it has the F1 paddle shifters with launch control, a monkey could get a great launch and you are hosed. All the driver has to do is pull the paddles back, hold their foot on the brake, and rev it up. When they release the brake, the computer does the rest.
Cheers,
Lawrence
Team Owner
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 24,337
Likes: 25
From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Tell me again what advantage there is again, to spending the extra $100-200k on that Ferrari.... 
Drag race... no
Road race... no
Short trips... no
Long trips... no
Cost of ownership... no
Hanging out with other Ferrari owners... god no
Running from cops... yes
It's gotta be the *****. But you could buy so much more ***** than that for $200k. Ferrari is like a ***** subscription. Pay once, and hope you get your money's worth before it runs out.
Drag race... no
Road race... no
Short trips... no
Long trips... no
Cost of ownership... no
Hanging out with other Ferrari owners... god no
Running from cops... yes
It's gotta be the *****. But you could buy so much more ***** than that for $200k. Ferrari is like a ***** subscription. Pay once, and hope you get your money's worth before it runs out.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; Dec 20, 2005 at 12:28 AM.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by TrackDayLT4
Over the years I have come across a couple of fairly well driven 355's and one well driven 360. The 355's and my stock LT4 are very close. the LT4 torque would give me a couple of car lengths out of the corners and the Ferrari brakes and rear weight balance would give them back at the end of the straight. Good fun!
The 360 was slower than my LT4 coming out of the corner, but as it wound up it would pull away a few car lengths similar to a C5 ZO6. In a drag race it would probably come down to the launch. If it has the F1 paddle shifters with launch control, a monkey could get a great launch and you are hosed. All the driver has to do is pull the paddles back, hold their foot on the brake, and rev it up. When they release the brake, the computer does the rest.
Cheers,
Lawrence
The 360 was slower than my LT4 coming out of the corner, but as it wound up it would pull away a few car lengths similar to a C5 ZO6. In a drag race it would probably come down to the launch. If it has the F1 paddle shifters with launch control, a monkey could get a great launch and you are hosed. All the driver has to do is pull the paddles back, hold their foot on the brake, and rev it up. When they release the brake, the computer does the rest.
Cheers,
Lawrence
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,625
Likes: 4
From: Director of Bands
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
Tell me again what advantage there is again, to spending the extra $100-200k on that Ferrari....
Drag race... no
Road race... no
Short trips... no
Long trips... no
Cost of ownership... no
Hanging out with other Ferrari owners... god no
Running from cops... yes
It's gotta be the *****. But you could buy so much more ***** than that for $200k. Ferrari is like a ***** subscription. Pay once, and hope you get your money's worth before it runs out.
Drag race... no
Road race... no
Short trips... no
Long trips... no
Cost of ownership... no
Hanging out with other Ferrari owners... god no
Running from cops... yes
It's gotta be the *****. But you could buy so much more ***** than that for $200k. Ferrari is like a ***** subscription. Pay once, and hope you get your money's worth before it runs out.
That's some funny sh!4 fo sure! Why a Ferrari? Simple because it's a Ferrari. There is a mystique and a pedigree that simply cannot be had with other automobiles. It's the realization of a dream.
Damn, that sounds cheesey! But, if I had the chance, I would go for an F-car. Simply because I want one. It's not about simple performance numbers. It's about sex.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 5
From: Hayward CA
Originally Posted by pr0zac
why would i want to switch back to 1.6 rr when every flow chart i have ever seen shows that the untouched lt4 heads flow less at .550ish lift than at .500 which is right where my cam lifts at with the 1.52rr's?
While they may flow slightly less at .550, they still have good flow #'s in that range (not dropping off significantly). You're leaving some hp on the table by going with a 1.52rr. The 1.6 rr will give you .533 intake lift / .544 exhaust lift, which is actually almost perfect for a stock LT4 head
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,012
Likes: 5
From: OKC OK
Originally Posted by TM-96CE
While they may flow slightly less at .550, they still have good flow #'s in that range (not dropping off significantly). You're leaving some hp on the table by going with a 1.52rr. The 1.6 rr will give you .533 intake lift / .544 exhaust lift, which is actually almost perfect for a stock LT4 head
assuming you have adequate valvesprings