speed bleeders
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Joined: Oct 2004
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by Da Mail Man
yes, it is however, please tell me HOW you can determine at what point all of the air is out of the line unless you are actually watching it while it is happening and when/if it gets to that point with only the fluid being expelled and no more air, tightening the bleeder screw.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Oviedo FL
Originally Posted by Da Mail Man
great, but you can SEE the tubing. when one man is pumping the brakes, he cannot see the right side wheel calipers
Mike
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Originally Posted by neat
Wow. Mr. Mailman, I am impressed. Your grammar skills are kinda lacking, but your vocabulary is pretty impressive. You're not quite using some of the words properly, but none the less, you've elicited your desired response form the C4 tech crowd.
Anyway, here's a technical explanation of why you can use clear plastic tubing, or surgical tubing, to do this job with 1 person. I'll try to use big words, but gimmie a break if I use some little ones.
Ok, first things first. If you've got someone watching the bleeding process from under the car, how do they know all the air is out of the system? You said you could bleed the system all night long with a speed bleeder and still not know the air was out of the system. How does the spotter know all the air is out? Can they see through the caliper, into the brake line, and eventually back to reservoir? No they can't. So whatever means that was trapping air in the system when you were bleeding with the speed bleeder would also fool your spotter. All the spotter can confirm is that a constant stream of fluid is leaving the bleed screw. If air is trapped elsewhere in the system, and the fluid is somehow bypassing it, your spotter is worthless.
If you attach one end of clear surgical tubing to a speed bleeder, and submerge the other end in brake fluid, you have created a sealed system inside the hose. With a speed bleeder, you can not release fluid (or air) from the caliper without pressing the brake pedal. The speed bleeders are a 1 way valve. Attach your clear surgical tube, submerge the other end, and depress the brake pedal 1 time. Exit the car and look at the tubing. If there was any air in the system, it must of traveled through the tubing, to reach the container, where it would rise to the top and vanish. However, if the air did not reach the container, if it was in the tube when you released the brake, the air bubble will still be visible in the tube. It will not move. The fluid in the tube can not move with the bleed screw closed and the other end of the tube submerged.
If you have an air free tube, you have accomplished the same thing as your spotter could of. You have ensured there is a solid stream of fluid exiting the caliper.
FWIW, a non-organic anomaly is a rarity that would entail a substance that is non-carbon based. Human beings are carbon based, so they are not capable of a 'non-organic' anomaly. I don't know about brake fluid being carbon based, but I don't really see how brake fluid operating inside a braking system could be considered rare, so that discounts the brake fluid as being the 'non-organic anomaly.' The speed bleeder itself could be the non-organic anomaly, but I don't see how the speed bleeder could cause symptoms.
Anyway, I applaud your effort, but you're defending your position with large words and ignorance passed off as intelligence. When someone sarcastically makes a comment about 30 feet of tubing, and your response is, "You would really do that? That's absurd." all you're doing is showing that you lack the intelligence to respond to the intent of the post. The intent was sarcastic, it was not meant to be taken literally. Using large words to refute the literal meaning of someone's sarcastic post, in some attempt to promote your own intelligence, is kinda comical. In my mind, all you've shown is that you lack the ability to see the poster's sarcasm. You're not smart enough to understand it. It's really kind of ironic, trying to defend your incredible intellect, only to make yourself appear super duper dumb, lol.
Anyway, good game dude. Spend some more time in English class, maybe a trip or 2 to the public library, and gimmie a holla' when you need a hand bleeding your brakes.
Anyway, here's a technical explanation of why you can use clear plastic tubing, or surgical tubing, to do this job with 1 person. I'll try to use big words, but gimmie a break if I use some little ones.
Ok, first things first. If you've got someone watching the bleeding process from under the car, how do they know all the air is out of the system? You said you could bleed the system all night long with a speed bleeder and still not know the air was out of the system. How does the spotter know all the air is out? Can they see through the caliper, into the brake line, and eventually back to reservoir? No they can't. So whatever means that was trapping air in the system when you were bleeding with the speed bleeder would also fool your spotter. All the spotter can confirm is that a constant stream of fluid is leaving the bleed screw. If air is trapped elsewhere in the system, and the fluid is somehow bypassing it, your spotter is worthless.
If you attach one end of clear surgical tubing to a speed bleeder, and submerge the other end in brake fluid, you have created a sealed system inside the hose. With a speed bleeder, you can not release fluid (or air) from the caliper without pressing the brake pedal. The speed bleeders are a 1 way valve. Attach your clear surgical tube, submerge the other end, and depress the brake pedal 1 time. Exit the car and look at the tubing. If there was any air in the system, it must of traveled through the tubing, to reach the container, where it would rise to the top and vanish. However, if the air did not reach the container, if it was in the tube when you released the brake, the air bubble will still be visible in the tube. It will not move. The fluid in the tube can not move with the bleed screw closed and the other end of the tube submerged.
If you have an air free tube, you have accomplished the same thing as your spotter could of. You have ensured there is a solid stream of fluid exiting the caliper.
FWIW, a non-organic anomaly is a rarity that would entail a substance that is non-carbon based. Human beings are carbon based, so they are not capable of a 'non-organic' anomaly. I don't know about brake fluid being carbon based, but I don't really see how brake fluid operating inside a braking system could be considered rare, so that discounts the brake fluid as being the 'non-organic anomaly.' The speed bleeder itself could be the non-organic anomaly, but I don't see how the speed bleeder could cause symptoms.
Anyway, I applaud your effort, but you're defending your position with large words and ignorance passed off as intelligence. When someone sarcastically makes a comment about 30 feet of tubing, and your response is, "You would really do that? That's absurd." all you're doing is showing that you lack the intelligence to respond to the intent of the post. The intent was sarcastic, it was not meant to be taken literally. Using large words to refute the literal meaning of someone's sarcastic post, in some attempt to promote your own intelligence, is kinda comical. In my mind, all you've shown is that you lack the ability to see the poster's sarcasm. You're not smart enough to understand it. It's really kind of ironic, trying to defend your incredible intellect, only to make yourself appear super duper dumb, lol.
Anyway, good game dude. Spend some more time in English class, maybe a trip or 2 to the public library, and gimmie a holla' when you need a hand bleeding your brakes.
first let me say that your juvenile attempt at insulting me or trying to muster support for whatever agenda you have here with either me or this topic is indicative of your lack of education and your frustration at your inability to contribute to what i had hoped would be somewhat of an education or informative topic.
ha, your response about "non-organic anomaly" is so far off base
, it hardly meets the criteria for me to respond to it but, i will! somehow, and why i don't know, you have equated it to "brake fluid" and the like and threw in comments about "carbon-based", and "humans being carbon based"
. so, i guess i will have to tell you what a non-organic anomaly or affliction is.....it is mental/psychological illness in multiple degrees and styles. so, know what you are talking about and whom you are trying to empress before you try and do so. you embarrass yourself! now to address your reply about the 30 ' of brake line. i saw the posters' sarcasm and i know what he meant and i understood his comment to be sarcastic so, i responded in kind knowing full well he was "joking" so-to-speak". apparently, you didn't know that either his comment was sarcastic, and for sure that mine WAS in response!
the way i write/type (except for typos) is the way i speak and a partial reflection of my education. i attempt to respond here as i would in real life. i try and believe that the people in/on the forum are intelligent but, by reading your response/reply, you sir are indeed the exception to that rule. i am convinced that your education didn't go a long way and somehow, you take that agenda out in the forum on those who's education did.
now onward...there is no sure way to determine while pumping the brake to expel fluid that all the air is out of the system unless there is a second person involved watching the process at the right
wheels, period.
one can have s-bleeders and pump the brakes till next week and he couldn't say with any elevated degree of certainty, that the next pump of the brakes will yield NO air.
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
You cant. Guess you have to trust the speedbleeders are doing their job and not letting air back in. Plan on buying a set for each of my cars.
i haven"t had this much fun on the net in a long time. it brings everyone out of the woodwork!....
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,867
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From: Pasadena Maryland
Originally Posted by Da Mail Man
one can have s-bleeders and pump the brakes till next week and he couldn't say with any elevated degree of certainty, that the next pump of the brakes will yield NO air.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by Da Mail Man
ohhhh here we go!
first let me say that your juvenile attempt at insulting me or trying to muster support for whatever agenda you have here with either me or this topic is indicative of your lack of education and your frustration at your inability to contribute to what i had hoped would be somewhat of an education or informative topic.
first let me say that your juvenile attempt at insulting me or trying to muster support for whatever agenda you have here with either me or this topic is indicative of your lack of education and your frustration at your inability to contribute to what i had hoped would be somewhat of an education or informative topic.
ha, your response about "non-organic anomaly" is so far off base , it hardly meets the criteria for me to respond to it but, i will!
somehow, and why i don't know, you have equated it to "brake fluid" and the like and threw in comments about "carbon-based", and "humans being carbon based" . so, i guess i will have to tell you what a non-organic anomaly or affliction is.....it is mental/psychological illness in multiple degrees and styles. so, know what you are talking about and whom you are trying to empress before you try and do so. you embarrass yourself!
, it hardly meets the criteria for me to respond to it but, i will! somehow, and why i don't know, you have equated it to "brake fluid" and the like and threw in comments about "carbon-based", and "humans being carbon based"
. so, i guess i will have to tell you what a non-organic anomaly or affliction is.....it is mental/psychological illness in multiple degrees and styles. so, know what you are talking about and whom you are trying to empress before you try and do so. you embarrass yourself!
the way i write/type (except for typos) is the way i speak and a partial reflection of my education. i attempt to respond here as i would in real life. i try and believe that the people in/on the forum are intelligent but, by reading your response/reply, you sir are indeed the exception to that rule. i am convinced that your education didn't go a long way and somehow, you take that agenda out in the forum on those who's education did.
now onward...there is no sure way to determine while pumping the brake to expel fluid that all the air is out of the system unless there is a second person involved watching the process at the right
wheels, period.
wheels, period.
one can have s-bleeders and pump the brakes till next week and he couldn't say with any elevated degree of certainty, that the next pump of the brakes will yield NO air.
I guess the moral of the story is that you have education, I'm a drop out, and you won't listen to me because you're thoughts and opinions are beyond reproach. Especially from a juvenille with a complete inability to contribute to a thread in which you denounce a product you have never used, based on principles that can be prooven with something as simple as a clear hose and a container of brake fluid.
Oh ya, and we both have way too much time on our hands.
Before you break down this post, and point out how superior your education, intellect, and all other things brain related is; just answer these 2 questions. If there was an air bubble in the clear tube between the speed bleeder and the container of fluid, why wouldn't you be able to use that as an idicator that you needed to bleed more?. If the clear tube is full of fluid, no bubbles, how is that different from watching the spurt with your own eyes?
Last edited by neat; Jan 12, 2006 at 02:42 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Littleton CO
Originally Posted by kalister1
...after enough fluid has been flushed through the system you have to accept that it is completely bled. How will you ever know what the next pump will bring, even if a person is watching the tube in the jar?
Originally Posted by neat
If there was an air bubble in the clear tube between the speed bleeder and the container of fluid, why wouldn't you be able to use that as an idicator that you needed to bleed more?. If the clear tube is full of fluid, no bubbles, how is that different from watching the spurt with your own eyes?
molehill ---> mountain
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Originally Posted by neat
Actually, I am a high school drop out. Nor do I have a GED. I suppose that means your better than me, lol. I don't think I insulted you anywhere, just said that some of your repsonses make you look kinda dumb. I suppose that could be taken as an insult, but that's up to interpretation. I don't really have an agenda, other than to kill some time at work, and explain how a speed bleeder works.
***i am better then nobody, you or anyone else. if ya didn't finish school, i am sorry for you in that, i am sure you had some valid reasons so, i will kill this here. i was in no way stating anything that would place me above anyone else.
Like I said, I am a high school drop out, so what do you expect. Organic is defined as anything carbon based. Non-organic would be devoid of carbon. An anomaly is an oddity or rarity. So, something not carbon based that is odd or rare. I suppose you could say that thoughts and ideas (or mental illness) qualify as a non-organic anomaly because thoughts/ideas/mental illness are not carbon based (well, they might be but that's another discussion) and could be odd. None of the topics at hand (brake fluid, speed bleeders, or the phantom 2nd person) could qualify as non-organic anomaly. If you think a person is crazy, perhaps layman's terms would be a better way to get your point across.
***i really don't want to get into a dissertation on organic non-organic however, if you consult your physician, he can put it into terms that best suits you as you would probably be more comfortable with him. however, there IS a difference.
Like I said, I never finished high school. You're wrong about my agenda (or lack thereof) though, and I don't see how colorfully explaining how speed bleeders work to you in the same manner that you denounce them qualifies me as a person who 'takes things out on the forum.' The way you type (which I've heard is the way you speak, and is a partial reflection of your education) is rude, and completely up-open to counter argument. You made up your mind about speed bleeders before ever even starting this thread, and now you refuse to even accept the idea that they might work as advertised.
***"rude" is totally subjective. i have not "made up my mind about speed bleeders before ever even starting this thread", i am not totally convinced that they work in a percentage high enough for me to trust or buy them. i would rather do the "tried and tested" method of bleeding. they never responded to any e-mail i sent them about their product and that too, i have "issues" with. in my opinion, they are ducking for cover. if s-bleeders worked for you or anyone on the forum and you want to trust them, more power to ya. as for me, any company whom ducks out, in my opinion, can't be trusted. imo.
Explain to me how a man watching the bleeder spurt liquid can assure me there will be no air on the next pump? He can't see the future, and can't see in the caliper.
***sure. if a 2 person bleeder "crew" were bleeding the brakes, the man at the caliper would SEE a succession of maybe 10 squirts in a row without air, and that to me is proof positive that there is no more air in the line. with an s-bleeder, once you get out of the car to take a look, you view the jar and the hose after the fact and you'll never know if the last emission/discharge from the line expelled air to make you decide to go onto the next pump of the pedal.
If you read my lengthy reply from beofre, the area inside a hose attached to the bleeder is a controlled environment. You can use that controlled environment to determine the EXACT same thing a human spotter could determine. That the bleeder is shooting a solid stream of fluid with no bubbles.
***i totally disagree.read my above response.
I guess the moral of the story is that you have education, I'm a drop out, and you won't listen to me because you're thoughts and opinions are beyond reproach. Especially from a juvenille with a complete inability to contribute to a thread in which you denounce a product you have never used, based on principles that can be prooven with something as simple as a clear hose and a container of brake fluid.
***yes, i have an education and i have listened to what every one "has to say", drop out, no drop out, or advanced education. i have done my homework so-to-speak in investigating this product/device as i do with a lot of purchases i make before i decide to buy. if a person is satisfied with a limited amount of information about a product and how it works or tastes, then, let him buy it or eat it. me, i require a bit more convincing.
Oh ya, and we both have way too much time on our hands.
***i agree
Before you break down this post, and point out how superior your education, intellect, and all other things brain related is; just answer these 2 questions. If there was an air bubble in the clear tube between the speed bleeder and the container of fluid, why wouldn't you be able to use that as an idicator that you needed to bleed more?. If the clear tube is full of fluid, no bubbles, how is that different from watching the spurt with your own eyes?
***i am better then nobody, you or anyone else. if ya didn't finish school, i am sorry for you in that, i am sure you had some valid reasons so, i will kill this here. i was in no way stating anything that would place me above anyone else.
Like I said, I am a high school drop out, so what do you expect. Organic is defined as anything carbon based. Non-organic would be devoid of carbon. An anomaly is an oddity or rarity. So, something not carbon based that is odd or rare. I suppose you could say that thoughts and ideas (or mental illness) qualify as a non-organic anomaly because thoughts/ideas/mental illness are not carbon based (well, they might be but that's another discussion) and could be odd. None of the topics at hand (brake fluid, speed bleeders, or the phantom 2nd person) could qualify as non-organic anomaly. If you think a person is crazy, perhaps layman's terms would be a better way to get your point across.
***i really don't want to get into a dissertation on organic non-organic however, if you consult your physician, he can put it into terms that best suits you as you would probably be more comfortable with him. however, there IS a difference.
Like I said, I never finished high school. You're wrong about my agenda (or lack thereof) though, and I don't see how colorfully explaining how speed bleeders work to you in the same manner that you denounce them qualifies me as a person who 'takes things out on the forum.' The way you type (which I've heard is the way you speak, and is a partial reflection of your education) is rude, and completely up-open to counter argument. You made up your mind about speed bleeders before ever even starting this thread, and now you refuse to even accept the idea that they might work as advertised.
***"rude" is totally subjective. i have not "made up my mind about speed bleeders before ever even starting this thread", i am not totally convinced that they work in a percentage high enough for me to trust or buy them. i would rather do the "tried and tested" method of bleeding. they never responded to any e-mail i sent them about their product and that too, i have "issues" with. in my opinion, they are ducking for cover. if s-bleeders worked for you or anyone on the forum and you want to trust them, more power to ya. as for me, any company whom ducks out, in my opinion, can't be trusted. imo.
Explain to me how a man watching the bleeder spurt liquid can assure me there will be no air on the next pump? He can't see the future, and can't see in the caliper.
***sure. if a 2 person bleeder "crew" were bleeding the brakes, the man at the caliper would SEE a succession of maybe 10 squirts in a row without air, and that to me is proof positive that there is no more air in the line. with an s-bleeder, once you get out of the car to take a look, you view the jar and the hose after the fact and you'll never know if the last emission/discharge from the line expelled air to make you decide to go onto the next pump of the pedal.
If you read my lengthy reply from beofre, the area inside a hose attached to the bleeder is a controlled environment. You can use that controlled environment to determine the EXACT same thing a human spotter could determine. That the bleeder is shooting a solid stream of fluid with no bubbles.
***i totally disagree.read my above response.
I guess the moral of the story is that you have education, I'm a drop out, and you won't listen to me because you're thoughts and opinions are beyond reproach. Especially from a juvenille with a complete inability to contribute to a thread in which you denounce a product you have never used, based on principles that can be prooven with something as simple as a clear hose and a container of brake fluid.
***yes, i have an education and i have listened to what every one "has to say", drop out, no drop out, or advanced education. i have done my homework so-to-speak in investigating this product/device as i do with a lot of purchases i make before i decide to buy. if a person is satisfied with a limited amount of information about a product and how it works or tastes, then, let him buy it or eat it. me, i require a bit more convincing.
Oh ya, and we both have way too much time on our hands.
***i agree
Before you break down this post, and point out how superior your education, intellect, and all other things brain related is; just answer these 2 questions. If there was an air bubble in the clear tube between the speed bleeder and the container of fluid, why wouldn't you be able to use that as an idicator that you needed to bleed more?. If the clear tube is full of fluid, no bubbles, how is that different from watching the spurt with your own eyes?
Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jrp
I'll confess to not having bled my brakes yet, traditionally or otherwise, but these quotes make perfect sense and perhaps better state the point I was getting at - that this is how it becomes a one person operation. If you're not comfortable with that, then speed bleeders must not be right for you.
molehill ---> mountain
molehill ---> mountain
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Originally Posted by Da Mail Man
***i NEVER EVER said that my education was superior to that of anyones. don't arbitrarily throw something into the mix just for the sake of doing so! if you know of a place in this thread, post it now.
My intelligence is superior to yours.
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Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
I would not have given you the time of day if were the guy on the other side of your phone call. Then again, customer service isn't my fortay.
You sound like an ***-hole that likes to hear himself talk.
You sound like an ***-hole that likes to hear himself talk.
at any rate you @#&%& loser WHO IS BRAVE BEHIND A KEYBOARD, i never called them, i e-mailed them and i got a read receipt in return indicating that they received my e-mail. why should i call when they got my e-mail? cut the language.
there are religious and under age people on this forum either reading or participating. your use of foul language only belittles yourself and tarnishes this forum..
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Originally Posted by cuisinartvette
You guys....
