my motor farts when I try to put any forced air flow to it 
Electic Supercharger
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by ALLT4
These electric SC threads always intrigue me. The theory behind an electric SC is sound, force air into the motor right? What's wrong with that, granted these things we see on ebay are probably junk but why hasn't this ever been perfected. I mean electric motors can generate massive torque, look at your starter.
Couple a high torque electric motor to a "geared up" blower and why wouldn't that work? Is there a power in and out issue or something?
Look at some of the smaller turbos, hell they're being turned by nothing more than exhaust gas. An electric motor should be able to provide that kind of force right?
If it's a boost vs. rpm matching thing or boost vs. vacuum, hell that shouldn't be that hard to overcome with an AC motor and frequency drive synced to whatever the need be.
Am I totally crazy here?
Couple a high torque electric motor to a "geared up" blower and why wouldn't that work? Is there a power in and out issue or something?
Look at some of the smaller turbos, hell they're being turned by nothing more than exhaust gas. An electric motor should be able to provide that kind of force right?
If it's a boost vs. rpm matching thing or boost vs. vacuum, hell that shouldn't be that hard to overcome with an AC motor and frequency drive synced to whatever the need be.
Am I totally crazy here?
Team Owner
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From: altered state
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by Mekanic
Team Owner
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From: I have no tolerence for liberals and fools, but sometimes i repeat myself
CI 3-5-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
What does your vacuum gage have to do with anything? The motor also spins clockwise and the sky is blue.
The leaf blower will become a restriction over 5000rpm on a 350ci motor.
The motor also spins clockwise and the sky is blue.The leaf blower will become a restriction over 5000rpm on a 350ci motor.
I still say the leaf blower is mostly useless because as the engine accelerates it will make less and less boost, and if it only flows 500CFM it will eventually become a restriction, at what RPM is going to depend on the engine.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Orlando FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09
Originally Posted by arkangel81
um r u really serious by the way?
CentralCoaster Total Posts: 18,169 + Electric Supercharger = teh funnay
BTW CentralCoaster, did you put some in your exhaust before or after the turbo tips?
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2006
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"Electric superchargers" do not work because they are just a fan. There is no compression of the air, its just being moved.
For instance, if you have ever filled up an air mattress, rather than the mattress popping from too much air, the air will just flow back through the blower motor at a certain point.
An electric supercharger would work if the design was right... i don't see it ever surpassing the traditional belt driven supercharger though for many reasons.
For instance, if you have ever filled up an air mattress, rather than the mattress popping from too much air, the air will just flow back through the blower motor at a certain point.
An electric supercharger would work if the design was right... i don't see it ever surpassing the traditional belt driven supercharger though for many reasons.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,345
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From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
Originally Posted by ALLT4
If it's a boost vs. rpm matching thing or boost vs. vacuum, hell that shouldn't be that hard to overcome with an AC motor and frequency drive synced to whatever the need be. Am I totally crazy here?
Our cars run on DC. You'd need a mighty long extention cord to run an AC motor of sufficient power to force air, under pressure, at wide open throttle into a 350cu in engine running at 5000+ rpm.
Don't even think about trying to use an inverter.
Larry
code5coupe
Last edited by rocco16; Nov 20, 2006 at 04:58 PM.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by rocco16
No, only partially.
Our cars run on DC. You'd need a might long extention cord to run an AC motor of sufficient power to force air, under pressure, at wide open throttle into a 350cu in engine running at 5000+ rpm.
Don't even think about trying to use an inverter.
Larry
code5coupe
Our cars run on DC. You'd need a might long extention cord to run an AC motor of sufficient power to force air, under pressure, at wide open throttle into a 350cu in engine running at 5000+ rpm.
Don't even think about trying to use an inverter.
Larry
code5coupe
Race Director
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From: SCMR Rat Pack'r Charter Member..Great Bend KS
Originally Posted by 93-383
you could install a second alternator with the DC recifier bridge removed but whats the point?
If you want X amount of boost at X rpm on X engine, it will take a supercharger that requires Y amount of power to drive it.
Whether that Y power comes directly from the crankshaft (Roots type blower) or from the crankshaft to a generator to an electric motor to the blower...the power still has to come from the engine.
Don't even try to figure out how many batteries and an inverter it would take to develop the power required...it would not be feasible to add the hundreds of pounds necessary to get you down the quarter mile.
Use a generator? It would have to be almost as large as the engine.
This interesting subject was discussed several years ago here on the Forum. After pages and pages of thread, one of the members promised that he would explore this to the fullest and report back....
No word yet....
That's because it's a dead end.
Larry
code5coupe
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,137
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From: Howard PA
Personally I think it's just a matter of the extensive supporting electronics that would be needed. A variable frequency drive (VFD in the Heat and Vent business) is possible with a second alternator. This solves the problem of varying the speed of the motor while maintaining the torque. The problem remains of calculating boost to engine demand, more supporting electronics.
By the time someone would add a second alternator, the motor and compressor itself, a black box so to speak to do all the calculations, a wiring nightmare to deal with and you've reached the point of diminishing returns quickly. Not to mention a complete mess in your engine bay.
Plus, don't super chargers right now supply more than the engine is capable of using? Isn't that the reason for a pop off valve or waste gate in a turbo?
Still, I'd like to see someone try it but not this Cowboy.
By the time someone would add a second alternator, the motor and compressor itself, a black box so to speak to do all the calculations, a wiring nightmare to deal with and you've reached the point of diminishing returns quickly. Not to mention a complete mess in your engine bay.
Plus, don't super chargers right now supply more than the engine is capable of using? Isn't that the reason for a pop off valve or waste gate in a turbo?
Still, I'd like to see someone try it but not this Cowboy.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,141
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From: Metairie Louisiana
Why electric? What about a second gas engine? I used to fly RC planes a long time ago. Those things could push a lot of air for such little engines. If it was redesigned for a supercharger housing could it work? The gas they used was pink in color. I can't remember what it's called. How much air output would be needed for it to be worth the effort? I would never try anything like this. I was just thinking outloud.
Thanks
Thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by ALLT4
Plus, don't super chargers right now supply more than the engine is capable of using? Isn't that the reason for a pop off valve or waste gate in a turbo?
.
.
curiously dose anyone know how much hp trq is used from the engine to drive a supercharger example the common vortech kit
Le Mans Master
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From: levittown pa. usa Even a bad day with my `Vette, is better than a good day at work
St. Jude Donor '10
Originally Posted by 65Z01
If your "leaf blower" can do that, then you have a winnah, assuming you can install an alternator large enough to drive it...
Team Owner
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From: San Diego , CA Double Yellow DirtBags 1985..Z51..6-speed
Originally Posted by vetteman9368
a vacuum gauge is a measurement of restriction. I used the throttle body reference orginally because that's what the throttle body does, create a restriction. So if you hook a vacuum gauge to the intake and make a WOT pass, if the vacuum gauge reads anything above zero then your engine will outflow the restriction, wether that restriction is the TB, the air duct, the MAF, a dirty air filter, or a leaf blower.
The only time your plenum vacuum guage will read above zero on an N/A motor is when your car is backfiring.My original point was that intake and exhaust components are flow rated at standardized pressure drops that will typically never be seen in reality, and all the talk about "this will outflow that" is regirgitated b.s. A throttlebody at WOT for example, will never have 1.5in of mercury pulled across it, or 28in H2o, or whatever its rated at. And if you do manage to, then your throttle body is too small.
Those electric motors can provide marginal boost, or marginal flow, but not both at the same time. You'd need a 20hp electric motor to get any useful boost, but it'd weigh more than you and would kill your alternator instantly.
Team Owner
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From: I have no tolerence for liberals and fools, but sometimes i repeat myself
CI 3-5-7-8-9 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '08
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
The only time your plenum vacuum guage will read above zero on an N/A motor is when your car is backfiring.My original point was that intake and exhaust components are flow rated at standardized pressure drops that will typically never be seen in reality, and all the talk about "this will outflow that" is regirgitated b.s. A throttlebody at WOT for example, will never have 1.5in of mercury pulled across it, or 28in H2o, or whatever its rated at. And if you do manage to, then your throttle body is too small.
Those electric motors can provide marginal boost, or marginal flow, but not both at the same time. You'd need a 20hp electric motor to get any useful boost, but it'd weigh more than you and would kill your alternator instantly.