Mine is a 11.0:1 and I had been using hte Flepro Marine gasket at 4.200
bore.

I called Felpro tech topday and they say the 1010 is good for my 406 but I should drill the steam holes.

 

Happy new year Chuck! I'm just catching up here. Any update on this?

 

The key word here is DETONATION 10:1 is about the max that can be run with standard cooling ( non-LT1 ) and aluminum heads with factory ECM controlling the timing

 

GM was the last car company to use multilayer steel head gaskets.If you want to avoid head gasket problems these are a must.You need to have a very smooth finish on your heads minimum 60 RA.With dissimilar metals like iron block aluminum heads these will heat and cool at different rates and cause a chaffing motion.Also it has been shown that with high compression motors the heads actually lift off the block.That is why all the car makers went to MLS head gaskets.If you want to be extra safe since you have replaced your gaskets twice use head studs instead of bolts.

 

I am really curious to hear Fel-Pro's results.
I have run the cheap stock replacement gaskets (7733 PT-2) on 11:1 motors with a 150 shot of spray and never had a failure.
I am really curious.If deck is straight, head is straight and they both have correct R-A, then properly rolled bolts torqued to spec should result in great results. I feel bad for you because I know the frustration of everything being correct, and then failure.
Hopefully, felpro contacts you quickly.

 

The MLS gasket is without question the best thing going. I don't know that I would just put them on without honing the block with plates and MLS gaskets though. The stress distribution to the tops of the bores is quite a bit different with MLS compared to other more conventional gaskets with SS wire or copper wire rolled in the armor around the bores. We have done a lot of bore distortion studies here and there is a lot of difference in how the bores are pulled out of shape with the different gaskets when the heads are torqued in place. Small block Chevy's are particularily sensitive to this due to the close proximity of the head bolts to the bore walls. It is not uncommon to get as much as .0015 out of round. Of course many folks just bolt stuff together without checking this and they feel like the engine runs fine but the ring sealing is not optimum and power is lost.

 

Hence the suggestion to use studs instead of head bolts.Studs more evenly spread the clamping load on the heads.Also helps to eliminate bore distortion .

 

No word yet back from Felpro. I did consider studs instead of bolts....then I realized that I would have to pull my motor to get the studs in as well as pull the motor if I needed to take the heads off again in the future. Thats' not gonna happen.

 

Damm Chuck...Sorry to hear this!

 

So could it be possible you are overwhelming the gaskets? In your last picture, the gasket seemed ballooned out from extreme cylinder pressure. Maybe Felpro 1010 gaskets are too weak for your 11:1 build. I had a similar experience with those crappy 1010 gaskets on aluminum headed motors, even if the gaskets are exclusively designed for aluminum heads. Seems like switching over to the 1003 Felpros was the best option. The best part about it is that they are compatible with both iron and aluminum heads.

 

I should have taken some pics of the latest gaskets that blew out(both sides) They were distorted far worse than that original thread shows. I just cant imagine that an 11:1 motor would distort rings that bad. The rings on my latest blow-out tore half way out of the paper portion of the gasket. ......That is alot of force to be able to distort steel covered copper rings

At any rate I stopped by my builder today who was out. I'm gonna stop in tomorrow morning on my way into work.

 

As far as torquing the heads go, my dad always tells me 80 ft-lbs is the way to go. Any less and you could risk the lost of clamping force under high load/rpm condition. Though this sounds super opinionated, I think it is great that we've never had any problems with any gaskets so far! But I will tell you that I do look down on the 1010 gaskets.

 

chuck, who did your engine work? Sorry to hear you're having trouble.

 

chucks88, it may not be relevant in your situation, but I offer the
following for consideration.

There have been many accounts in C4 Tech of premature head gasket
failure after installing FelPro 1010 gaskets for iron block, aluminum
head combinations. Typically, the fire ring fails between the back two
cylinders (5/7 or 6/8) after a few years.

In just ONE thread, the following members report trouble using the
FelPro 1010 on Fe/Al SBC's. There are pictures of failed gaskets in
the thread.
There are other threads like that one with the same sad stories.

Dissimilar (galvanic) metal corrosion - a basic primer on the subject

Depending on the grade, Aluminum has an Anodic Index of 0.75 to 0.95,
just around the 0.85 index of low alloy Steel.

However Copper has an Anodic Index of 0.35 - far enough along the
scale to cause trouble.

Further reading
After reading the above, if I could only choose between the following
two gaskets for an aluminum head on an iron block, I would choose
the #1003 because its steel ring is galvanically more compatible with
the adjacent materials than is the copper ring in the #1010.

Fel Pro 1010 - SB-Chevy
Copper Wire Ring Head Gasket
SB-Chevy Bore 4.166'' Thickness .039'' Volume 8.9cc

Fel Pro 1003 - SB-Chevy
Steel Wire Ring Head Gasket
SB-Chevy Bore 4.166'' Thickness .041'' Volume 9.1cc

The #1010 may be a perfectly satisfactory choice for an iron head on
an iron block. However, if anyone here would choose the #1010 for a
Fe/Al combo, I would be grateful for a post with a justification for the
selection of this instead of the 1003.

.

 

From your earlier thread

Well, AFR should know.

Not withstanding the mfr's recommendation, my vote remains that
there is science and empirical evidence that argues against using the
1010 on Fe/Al combinations.

However, galvanic corrosion does not appear to be the root cause of
the current issue for chucks88.

.

 

A check at AFR shows that they presently recommend the FelPro #1003,
not the #1010. for their 195cc SBC Eliminator Street Cylinder Head
on 350 cid engines. Here is a link to the page, see specs at bottom
.

 

Holy Crap I did my fair of searching the subject on these gaskets and missed all that. That certainly is good news as I have been going through my steps and procedures almost on a daily basis to recall if I missed something.

Thanks-a-bunch

All this could explain why Felpro is dragging their feet in getting to these gaskets for eval. I'll be picking up a set of 1003's(Felpros I presume?)

Chuck

 

A&M Machine in Meriden,CT. I brought them my bare block to which they did all the necessary machined to bore it, they installed my rotating assembly and they installed and degreed my cam.

I don't know that I would use them again however. Not because of poor craftsmanship but due to poor service.

 

Not so fast. I'll repeat that I do not think that galvanic corrosion is
the cause of your latest issue.

When I wrote the first post, I didn't realize how little time had passed
before the #1010 head gaskets failed - 200 mi?

IF (capitalized 'IF') the copper ring in the 1010 contributes to corrosion
in an Fe/Al combo, this would take a while to occur. Longer than 200
miles (assuming the engine didn't sit for a long time with coolant.)

The dissimilar metals hypothesis is just that, my hypothesis. I've proposed
it a few times here without being challenged, but I haven't seen it raised
elsewhere.

Consider my contribution to the thread to be this: on the basis of the
dissimilar metals principals, the experience of others with the #1010
in Fe/Al applications and the recommendation of the mfr, my vote is to
use the 1003 (which happens to have a steel ring) rather than the 1010
(copper ring) when reassembling an Fe/Al combination. (I would also
ensure that all OEM ground straps are in place.)

Unfortunately, at this time I don't have anything to add to what others
have already said regarding the cause of the rapid failure of the previous
1010 gasket. I think you should continue the investigation to have
some assurance that there isn't a repeat with a 1003 or some other
gasket.

** ============================== **

Edit: SunCr has written extensively and frequently for many years here about
the L98 head gasket failures and the occurance of galvanic corrosion.

My small part is to point a finger at the copper material used in the ring portion
of some versions of the gaskets as contributing to the occurance of corrosion.
I haven't seen the role of the copper ring debated here and I haven't seen it
raised elsewhere. By themselves, iron and aluminum are close together on the
Anodic Index and thus wouldn't seem prone to strong galvanic action.

.

 

Not to side track this thread, but if the FelPro 1010's are no good, what should I use for stock L98 10.1 compression?