Update on Blown head gaskets
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,763
Likes: 2
From: Connectivette
It's too bad that the pics don't appear in the old thread(that you mentioned) as I would have like to compare and contrast that which I experienced. At any rate, the tearing of the fire ring out of the paper composite portion of the gasket is the failure I experienced and not so much the corrosion. I am assuming the two are mutually exclusive...or could be.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 6,303
Likes: 714
From: Bartlett IL
Chuck,
After the failure of my 1010 gaskets with TFS 23d heads, I used FelPro 1003 which was recommended by BOTH AFR and TFS. The .002 diff in thickness was negligible in CR. My motor was about a 10.3:1 with the 64cc chambers and stock 9:1 pistons of my 84. I had run the motor about 5k miles when I started having problems.
I learned from 3rd Gen that the 1010 had a rep for fire ring separation from the gasket material.
Read this thread
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/te...ht=felpro+1010
Same issue I had with the 1010. No problem with the 1003. Hope that helps.
After the failure of my 1010 gaskets with TFS 23d heads, I used FelPro 1003 which was recommended by BOTH AFR and TFS. The .002 diff in thickness was negligible in CR. My motor was about a 10.3:1 with the 64cc chambers and stock 9:1 pistons of my 84. I had run the motor about 5k miles when I started having problems.
I learned from 3rd Gen that the 1010 had a rep for fire ring separation from the gasket material.
Read this thread
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/te...ht=felpro+1010
Same issue I had with the 1010. No problem with the 1003. Hope that helps.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
Plasticman's thread from 2003/11.
L98 Head gasket failure question.
Of note are:
.
L98 Head gasket failure question.
Of note are:
- Comments regarding concern about the possibilty of Brinelling
from the 1003. 89 Paul in Cal reports long term 1003 use without issue. - Fel Pro's recommendation of the 7733PT2 over the 1010
.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 416
Likes: 2
From: Westfield MA
I've been following this thread with great interest because I will be pulling the heads off my '87 next week. I read all the links to other sites and learned the 1010 gaskets were modified by Fel-Pro at some point in time. The ones I bought appear to be the later modified ones per the description given in the 3'rd Gen. thread. Anyone have input on the later modified style 1010's? The 1010's are listed as having copper fire rings. The fire rings on mine are silver in color and look like steel. Maybe the copper has some type of coating that just looks like steel.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,763
Likes: 2
From: Connectivette
Do your gaskets like like mine....there is a link to the first go-around of blown head gaskets in my original post on this thread.
Also...
I've been trying to find the maximum compression ratio that the 1010's are reccommended for. Maybe it's just a matter of my 11:1 compression ratio being too high for the 1010's. Agent 86.....I know that you have had success with your 1010's(I've seen the video ) What compression are you running. I also haven't had any luck finding that info on Felpro/Federal Moguls website. Would anybody know the answer.
Chuck
Also...
I've been trying to find the maximum compression ratio that the 1010's are reccommended for. Maybe it's just a matter of my 11:1 compression ratio being too high for the 1010's. Agent 86.....I know that you have had success with your 1010's(I've seen the video
) What compression are you running. I also haven't had any luck finding that info on Felpro/Federal Moguls website. Would anybody know the answer.Chuck
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Racer
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 416
Likes: 2
From: Westfield MA
Do your gaskets like like mine....there is a link to the first go-around of blown head gaskets in my original post on this thread.
Also...
I've been trying to find the maximum compression ratio that the 1010's are reccommended for. Maybe it's just a matter of my 11:1 compression ratio being too high for the 1010's. Agent 86.....I know that you have had success with your 1010's(I've seen the video ) What compression are you running. I also haven't had any luck finding that info on Felpro/Federal Moguls website. Would anybody know the answer.
Chuck
Also...
I've been trying to find the maximum compression ratio that the 1010's are reccommended for. Maybe it's just a matter of my 11:1 compression ratio being too high for the 1010's. Agent 86.....I know that you have had success with your 1010's(I've seen the video
) What compression are you running. I also haven't had any luck finding that info on Felpro/Federal Moguls website. Would anybody know the answer.Chuck
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
I will check to see whether I have a new 1010 gasket. Sanding the ring
with emery cloth or sectioning it will reveal whether copper is present
and if it is plated/painted or encapsulated within some other material.
.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,763
Likes: 2
From: Connectivette
I have an un-used 1010 gasket in my hands right now which I can dissect however my last two most recent blown 1010 gaskets blew in such a way that the other metal portion of the ring split apart revealing the copper inside. Those are the gaskets that are back in Felpro's hands right now.
encapsulated would be my choice of words to describe it
encapsulated would be my choice of words to describe it
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 2
From: Kathleen FL
Your 1990 comes with 10:1 static compression stock. I would use a 1003 gasket and you compression ratio should still be about the same. I've heard people using LT1 Impala head gaskets before, but I'm not sure how much more compression you would gain over the oem head gaskets.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,763
Likes: 2
From: Connectivette
I got sick of waiting for my shortblock builder/the Felpro rep to get back to me with a report on my gaskets. So I called their main gasket tech support line today. The gentleman I talked to today was going to put a call to IL. facility which I understand is where my gaskets are being evaluated at this point. He said he would call back tomorrow.
He did say that Felpro recommends re-torquing the heads twice for this style gasket. Once after your torqued heads have sat for at least 1/2 hour and once after it has gone through a heat cycle. The procudure is to break the #1 bolt(#1 sequence)loose and torque it to spec. Then break the #2 bolt (#2 in sequence)loose and torque it to spec, following this for all 17 bolts. I don't know how much of a difference it makes in re-torquing them this way as opposed to just setting the wrench to 65 ft. lbs. and tightening the bolts......I didn't do it Felpro's way the first time around but I will this time. Hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow.
He did say that Felpro recommends re-torquing the heads twice for this style gasket. Once after your torqued heads have sat for at least 1/2 hour and once after it has gone through a heat cycle. The procudure is to break the #1 bolt(#1 sequence)loose and torque it to spec. Then break the #2 bolt (#2 in sequence)loose and torque it to spec, following this for all 17 bolts. I don't know how much of a difference it makes in re-torquing them this way as opposed to just setting the wrench to 65 ft. lbs. and tightening the bolts......I didn't do it Felpro's way the first time around but I will this time. Hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 0
From: CALGARY ab
Yes i had a very difficult time with 1010 felpro's . I think a replaced them with regular stock that i modified ( larger coolant holes for the rear/center cross over holes). been using these on my 10.5 /1 rebuild for a few years now . with NO PROBLEM!
Please do not use felpro 1010, reaD THE LINKS on you will learn why.. thanks
Please do not use felpro 1010, reaD THE LINKS on you will learn why.. thanks
chucks88, it may not be relevant in your situation, but I offer the
following for consideration.
There have been many accounts in C4 Tech of premature head gasket
failure after installing FelPro 1010 gaskets for iron block, aluminum
head combinations. Typically, the fire ring fails between the back two
cylinders (5/7 or 6/8) after a few years.
In just ONE thread, the following members report trouble using the
FelPro 1010 on Fe/Al SBC's. There are pictures of failed gaskets in
the thread.
Dissimilar (galvanic) metal corrosion - a basic primer on the subject
Depending on the grade, Aluminum has an Anodic Index of 0.75 to 0.95,
just around the 0.85 index of low alloy Steel.
However Copper has an Anodic Index of 0.35 - far enough along the
scale to cause trouble.
Further reading
After reading the above, if I could only choose between the following
two gaskets for an aluminum head on an iron block, I would choose
the #1003 because its steel ring is galvanically more compatible with
the adjacent materials than is the copper ring in the #1010.
Fel Pro 1010 - SB-Chevy
Copper Wire Ring Head Gasket
SB-Chevy Bore 4.166'' Thickness .039'' Volume 8.9cc
Fel Pro 1003 - SB-Chevy
Steel Wire Ring Head Gasket
SB-Chevy Bore 4.166'' Thickness .041'' Volume 9.1cc
The #1010 may be a perfectly satisfactory choice for an iron head on
an iron block. However, if anyone here would choose the #1010 for a
Fe/Al combo, I would be grateful for a post with a justification for the
selection of this instead of the 1003.
.
following for consideration.
There have been many accounts in C4 Tech of premature head gasket
failure after installing FelPro 1010 gaskets for iron block, aluminum
head combinations. Typically, the fire ring fails between the back two
cylinders (5/7 or 6/8) after a few years.
In just ONE thread, the following members report trouble using the
FelPro 1010 on Fe/Al SBC's. There are pictures of failed gaskets in
the thread.
Thread: Might have signs of blown head gasket now
korvette4u
Dominic Sorresso
Plasticman
Morley (FelPro, but unsure if 1010)
Bogus
HuggerVette
There are other threads like that one with the same sad stories.korvette4u
Dominic Sorresso
Plasticman
Morley (FelPro, but unsure if 1010)
Bogus
HuggerVette
Dissimilar (galvanic) metal corrosion - a basic primer on the subject
Depending on the grade, Aluminum has an Anodic Index of 0.75 to 0.95,
just around the 0.85 index of low alloy Steel.
However Copper has an Anodic Index of 0.35 - far enough along the
scale to cause trouble.
Further reading
After reading the above, if I could only choose between the following
two gaskets for an aluminum head on an iron block, I would choose
the #1003 because its steel ring is galvanically more compatible with
the adjacent materials than is the copper ring in the #1010.
Fel Pro 1010 - SB-Chevy
Copper Wire Ring Head Gasket
SB-Chevy Bore 4.166'' Thickness .039'' Volume 8.9cc
Fel Pro 1003 - SB-Chevy
Steel Wire Ring Head Gasket
SB-Chevy Bore 4.166'' Thickness .041'' Volume 9.1cc
The #1010 may be a perfectly satisfactory choice for an iron head on
an iron block. However, if anyone here would choose the #1010 for a
Fe/Al combo, I would be grateful for a post with a justification for the
selection of this instead of the 1003.
.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 2
From: Kathleen FL
Yes i had a very difficult time with 1010 felpro's . I think a replaced them with regular stock that i modified ( larger coolant holes for the rear/center cross over holes). been using these on my 10.5 /1 rebuild for a few years now . with NO PROBLEM!
Please do not use felpro 1010, reaD THE LINKS on you will learn why.. thanks
Please do not use felpro 1010, reaD THE LINKS on you will learn why.. thanks
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
I've been using 1010s for a few years now on my 358 TFS 23d combo. No problems.
Dominic, When you switched to the 1003 how many miles did you put on it before you sold it?
The reason I went with the 1010 was the thickness. My pistons are .005" in the hole, and I wanted to keep quench under .045"..
-- Joe
Dominic, When you switched to the 1003 how many miles did you put on it before you sold it?
The reason I went with the 1010 was the thickness. My pistons are .005" in the hole, and I wanted to keep quench under .045"..
-- Joe
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
-- Joe
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
Read your old thread, and this new one. Re-torquing head bolts after run in (or bringing it up to operating temp) has been called old school by alot of forum members...and I'm one of the old schoolers. I've always followed the torque pattern and did them in stages, 3 times is fine. But I've always re-torqued them after getting it up to operating temp....PIA, but better than what you're going through. Make sure nothing is warped, and this time re-torque. Hope it works out. And I wouldn't worry about the CR, doubt if 11:1 has any affect on your problem.
-- Joe
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,382
Likes: 2
From: Kathleen FL
I've been using 1010s for a few years now on my 358 TFS 23d combo. No problems.
Dominic, When you switched to the 1003 how many miles did you put on it before you sold it?
The reason I went with the 1010 was the thickness. My pistons are .005" in the hole, and I wanted to keep quench under .045"..
-- Joe
Dominic, When you switched to the 1003 how many miles did you put on it before you sold it?
The reason I went with the 1010 was the thickness. My pistons are .005" in the hole, and I wanted to keep quench under .045"..
-- Joe
I still have the 1003s on my 89. I have about 4,000 HARD miles on it before I pulled the Miniram intake off in favor of a carb set up.
Before my 88 got wrecked, I "re"replaced the leaky 1010 gaskets with 1003 gaskets. I'd say the 1010 gaskets had less than a thousand miles on them before they" blew" again. The 1003 works out nicely for me on the stock 88 motor as well as my 89's high compression built up motor.