OK Guys, need some serious help!!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,172
Likes: 9
From: '88 TPI L98/HotCam Powell, Ohio
"Here's something.
I drove to the exhaust shop, about 20 miles round trip, pulled in the garage, drained the oil, let the pan drip over night. That was the first oil change after the build, I had 10-30 dyno oil
The next day, I filled it with the 20-50. Left it like that for 2 weeks while I swapped the injectors.
Then I started it and it made that noise."
My turn at the dart board......A couple people have suggested 2 noises in the video. Any chance that one of the noises is the oil pump cavitating and the other from the dry top end??
Have you tried pulling the distributor and priming the engine w/ the drill do hicky mabob?? (fancy big words, ahe?)
I drove to the exhaust shop, about 20 miles round trip, pulled in the garage, drained the oil, let the pan drip over night. That was the first oil change after the build, I had 10-30 dyno oil
The next day, I filled it with the 20-50. Left it like that for 2 weeks while I swapped the injectors.
Then I started it and it made that noise."
My turn at the dart board......A couple people have suggested 2 noises in the video. Any chance that one of the noises is the oil pump cavitating and the other from the dry top end??
Have you tried pulling the distributor and priming the engine w/ the drill do hicky mabob?? (fancy big words, ahe?)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,238
Likes: 4
From: Milan
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
Hate to say this anesthes but 3k 
We used to run solids all the time, you adjust those most of the time while the engine is at idel, that's when they came up with the little clips to put on the rockers, keeps the oil from getting all over the place....jsups top end is definetly starving for oil, just the amount of time running in the video, and especially if you hit 80 psi your camera should have been getting fogged with oil! You can still have oil pressure (rods, mains and cam) and starve the top end. Now I'm kinda wondering about the oil pump pickup tube, some were tack welded some were not. I think I'd be pulling the pan and inspecting the entire oil pump. Easier than replacing a motor!
We used to run solids all the time, you adjust those most of the time while the engine is at idel, that's when they came up with the little clips to put on the rockers, keeps the oil from getting all over the place....jsups top end is definetly starving for oil, just the amount of time running in the video, and especially if you hit 80 psi your camera should have been getting fogged with oil! You can still have oil pressure (rods, mains and cam) and starve the top end. Now I'm kinda wondering about the oil pump pickup tube, some were tack welded some were not. I think I'd be pulling the pan and inspecting the entire oil pump. Easier than replacing a motor!
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,290
Likes: 140
From: Salem NH
I adjust my rockers all the time with spring changes, and on all the cars/truck we've built which used to be a lot every year. I've never had oil spray 'everywhere'. Thats just silly.
Worse thing that might make a mess is if the return holes are not big enough (aftermarket heads) you might need some cardboard to keep it from pooling over the side of the rail.
-- Joe
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
Hell yes I'm serious! He said 80 psi, well at 60 psi and lower I've had oil spray onto the headers, and on an older vette (64) even onto the fenders. That's exactly why most guys would rather set zero lash without the motor running, to avoid the mess it makes. At least we agree his top end appears in the video (and he said his camera was as close as he could get it) to be starving of oil. Even in the short amount of time he ran it.
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
Hell yes I'm serious! He said 80 psi, well at 60 psi and lower I've had oil spray onto the headers, and on an older vette (64) even onto the fenders. That's exactly why most guys would rather set zero lash without the motor running, to avoid the mess it makes. At least we agree his top end appears in the video (and he said his camera was as close as he could get it) to be starving of oil. Even in the short amount of time he ran it.
Maybe he should manually run his oil pump and see if he can get more oil to the top end.
Last edited by jimmac28; Apr 4, 2008 at 05:19 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,262
Likes: 0
From: E. Amherst NY
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Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,482
Likes: 3
From: Carmichael ca
Whether the oil would spray all over is not that important right now. The fact that we can't see any oil in the video is. The idea to manually turn the oil pump is excellent. If you can't find the tool in Beppe's picture, you can make one out of an old distributer. This should definitely be your next move.
Paul
Paul
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,130
Likes: 2
From: seattle WA
I really can't remember the configuration, but it seems to me you can still draw a certain amount of oil from the pan even if the pickup tube has dropped off. That would be my concern. I'd damn sure drop the pan and inspect it.
Pro
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 635
Likes: 6
From: New Jersey
John, what procedure did you use to adjust the valves when you changed the injectors, because I have a SR on my vette and when I pull it off I have to loosen at least 4 of the valves to get to the bolts so I can get to the runners.
Randy
Randy
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 6
From: Palm Beach
Guys, what would you guys say if I satrurated the top end with oil, started it, and let it run a few seconds. Beleive me, oil does come up after a few seconds, I just didn't let it run long enough.
I didn't let it run becuase I didn't want to damage anything.
I'm starting to believe it is that the top end is dry..don't know why, never happened before.
I didn't let it run becuase I didn't want to damage anything.
I'm starting to believe it is that the top end is dry..don't know why, never happened before.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
There have been a lot of suggestions to prime the oil system. This doesn't make sense to me. All he's done is change the injectors and let it sit for a week or two without driving it. Personally, I don't see how what he's done could cause the valve train to be that noisy. Now that I've said that, he'll prime the oiling system and all will be cured.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Carnegie PA
"drained the oil, let the pan drip over night"
That's the comment I have trouble with!
Doing that could(?) allow the oil pump to completely empty and the engine isn't being run long enough for the pump to fill and push oil up top.
I've seen lifters take 5-10 (or more) minutes to quiet down so I would either pre-oil (preferable) or let it idle for a while while squirting oil on the valve train until oil is present from the push rods.
That's the comment I have trouble with!
Doing that could(?) allow the oil pump to completely empty and the engine isn't being run long enough for the pump to fill and push oil up top.
I've seen lifters take 5-10 (or more) minutes to quiet down so I would either pre-oil (preferable) or let it idle for a while while squirting oil on the valve train until oil is present from the push rods.
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
There have been a lot of suggestions to prime the oil system. This doesn't make sense to me. All he's done is change the injectors and let it sit for a week or two without driving it. Personally, I don't see how what he's done could cause the valve train to be that noisy. Now that I've said that, he'll prime the oiling system and all will be cured.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 17,298
Likes: 33
From: The Top of Utah
Originally Posted by jimmac28
Would it hurt to try it???
RACE ON!!!
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,991
Likes: 5
From: The Pines South Jersey
There have been a lot of suggestions to prime the oil system. This doesn't make sense to me. All he's done is change the injectors and let it sit for a week or two without driving it. Personally, I don't see how what he's done could cause the valve train to be that noisy. Now that I've said that, he'll prime the oiling system and all will be cured.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
1- prove the pump is ok
2- prove it is not
When Jsup posted this problem he didnt elude to the fact he did an over night drain and refill with a heavier viscosity oil until well after the dry condition was mentioned after the video post.
What changed besides the injectors - the oil did
What is viscosity? It's a resistance to flow.
20w50 on a 30k motor imho is a no no, but opinions are like noses some smell better.
If it were me in this situation, I would get a brand new $8 blitz drain container to save the $7/qt oil and put in 5qts of 10w30 Castrol GTX for about $10 and check the results
Wax On!!!
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
Absolutely not. If it would, I would have posted in big bold letters, "don't do that". Instead, I commented, "Now that I've said that, he'll prime the oiling system and all will be cured.". I think he will probably follow the consensus and prime or reprime the oiling system. I think it will be a waste of time, but it certainly can't hurt anything and it won't cost a dime. We'll see.
RACE ON!!!
RACE ON!!!
Last edited by jimmac28; Apr 5, 2008 at 06:40 AM.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 35,065
Likes: 0
From: Bergen County, NJ Democrats, doing for the country what they did for Michigan
Tomorrow guys.
I'm going to do the following:
1. Pull and inspect the plugs
2. drain the oil and put in 10-30
3. prime the oil system.
We'll see what happens.
Give the valves a good once over and make sure everything looks OK. I'm going to see if I can isolate a bad adjustment or lifter and perhaps isolate one or more bad lifters or badly adjusted valves.
I'm going to do the following:
1. Pull and inspect the plugs
2. drain the oil and put in 10-30
3. prime the oil system.
We'll see what happens.
Give the valves a good once over and make sure everything looks OK. I'm going to see if I can isolate a bad adjustment or lifter and perhaps isolate one or more bad lifters or badly adjusted valves.