Battery Charger Killed the Vette
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Springfield Missouri
Battery Charger Killed the Vette
Hi everyone, it's been a while since I posted because the 'vette has been sitting in the garage all winter.
I went out to start it and of course the battery was so down it barely turned over so I put it on the charger and when I came back a bit later I noticed that I had left the charger switch in the "12-v crank" position.
I tried to start the car, it didnt even try to turn over, but all my lights and guages worked.
I got under it and tested the starter by crossing the terminals and the engine cranked, sputtered, and still wouldnt start. (key was on btw)
It's VATS has been disabled already and i've never had any troubles with the gear selector lockout
I really hope that leaving the car connected to high-amp electricity didnt destroy my computer or (wouldnt doubt it) my ICM *again*
ANY suggestions? I'd like to see the page out of the FSM to troubleshoot if anyone could scan it for me.
Ryan Kemppainen
I went out to start it and of course the battery was so down it barely turned over so I put it on the charger and when I came back a bit later I noticed that I had left the charger switch in the "12-v crank" position.
I tried to start the car, it didnt even try to turn over, but all my lights and guages worked.
I got under it and tested the starter by crossing the terminals and the engine cranked, sputtered, and still wouldnt start. (key was on btw)
It's VATS has been disabled already and i've never had any troubles with the gear selector lockout
I really hope that leaving the car connected to high-amp electricity didnt destroy my computer or (wouldnt doubt it) my ICM *again*
ANY suggestions? I'd like to see the page out of the FSM to troubleshoot if anyone could scan it for me.
Ryan Kemppainen
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,625
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From: Director of Bands
St. Jude Donor '08
battery might still be to low - you ned to be able to run the 'puter andthe injectors as well as the starter. Try a slow 2 amp overnight charge before you completely freak out...
My .02
My .02
Racer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: Bartonville Illinois
Unless the car had some problems beside the battery I doubt that your charger could hurt anything. It is designed to give more current for starting with a low battery. It may be able to overcharge the battery some if left in this mode for extended periods. (boil out the water)
The voltage it puts out is still safe for the car, unless you hooked it up reverse polarity it shouldn't hurt the ecm.
The voltage it puts out is still safe for the car, unless you hooked it up reverse polarity it shouldn't hurt the ecm.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: Stansbury park Utah
I've ruined three batteries in my vette since ive had it for four years. I wouldn't start it for to long and when I would go to start the thing the battery was dead. I finally got a trickle charger with a shut of when the battery reaches maximum volts. If I'm not going to drive the car for more than a day I plug it in. No problems since.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: panama city beach Florida
When you say the VATS is disabled, Did you just ad the in line resistor kit to bypass the key. If so your VATS is not disabled just bypassed. Remove the resistor from the wiring harness, with the key turned off weight 10 minutes this will reset the VATS, Next reinstall resistor. The car should now start.
David
David
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Springfield Missouri
It's a 93 and there's no "click" of the starter so i will check that fuse and the VATS
the battery has a full charge now
remind me again what holes do i cross make the codes flash?
the battery has a full charge now
remind me again what holes do i cross make the codes flash?
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Orlando FL
Charging the battery with the key off will definitely not affect the computer.
Batteries don’t like to be discharged for extended periods of time. With a used battery with some time on it, there’s deterioration in the cells when un-charged. It can be charged up but you loose that normal performance that enables you pull high current for longer periods of time. It also won’t hold a charge as long in the future. Always keep a wet cell charged. A normal vette had a draw of 30MA due to the computers. That will pull the battery down over a period of time (longer than a month), keep it charged.
Simple stuff first: Make sure the battery terminals are clean and tight. Clean the ignition key with alcohol. On the 93, you can check for codes by connecting terminals A & G. Turn key to on and check for codes. Top right, bottom left (I think).
Simple vats questions
1- Does the fuel pump run for about 3 seconds when the key is turned to ON
2- Measure voltage at starter solenoid when key it turned to START.
This will give you a direction to start in.
If pump runs, vats is probably OK
If voltage at starter solenoid and no action, probably a defective solenoid (starter).
Batteries don’t like to be discharged for extended periods of time. With a used battery with some time on it, there’s deterioration in the cells when un-charged. It can be charged up but you loose that normal performance that enables you pull high current for longer periods of time. It also won’t hold a charge as long in the future. Always keep a wet cell charged. A normal vette had a draw of 30MA due to the computers. That will pull the battery down over a period of time (longer than a month), keep it charged.
Simple stuff first: Make sure the battery terminals are clean and tight. Clean the ignition key with alcohol. On the 93, you can check for codes by connecting terminals A & G. Turn key to on and check for codes. Top right, bottom left (I think).
Simple vats questions
1- Does the fuel pump run for about 3 seconds when the key is turned to ON
2- Measure voltage at starter solenoid when key it turned to START.
This will give you a direction to start in.
If pump runs, vats is probably OK
If voltage at starter solenoid and no action, probably a defective solenoid (starter).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 15
From: backwoods upstate ny
but there is possibilty that you've smoked the ecm...ALWAYS disconnect the vehicle ground cable and install a temporary ground lug to charge...NEVER attempt to start an ecm -equipped vehicle using the "start/boost" mode of a battery charger..."fast" chargers are also murder for electronic dashes, etc. (info courtesy of used car buds who have learned the hard way)
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,621
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From: Orlando FL
but there is possibilty that you've smoked the ecm...ALWAYS disconnect the vehicle ground cable and install a temporary ground lug to charge...NEVER attempt to start an ecm -equipped vehicle using the "start/boost" mode of a battery charger..."fast" chargers are also murder for electronic dashes, etc. (info courtesy of used car buds who have learned the hard way)
Will not disagree that this is the safest way to do it.
However;
A good battery when charging will keep the charging voltage at a max level even at high current charging is set. A bad battery will allow the charging voltage to rise and not be somewhat capped. Now even if that happens, the electronics should have a tolerance built in of max voltage to it. Even 15 or 17 volts should be with in these specs.
The reason for not charging and starting these modern cars with computer systems is there could be a large fluctuations of current and voltage which could cause large voltage spikes that could damage the computers and anything else which now is connected to the B+ lines now that you have turned the key on. With the key off, only the computers are always connected to B+ still, but there is no voltage fluctuations from the battery or charger.
Since I believe that crkemppainen did not try to start the car with the charger connected, I don’t think he could have not damaged anything (besides, it never cranked) .
If the solonoid/starter can be jumped to turn the engine, then there is enough power for a normal start. If this is true, then troubleshoot normally why it won't turn over under or start.
Last edited by pcolt94; Apr 1, 2008 at 11:24 AM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 336
Likes: 3
From: State of Confusion
I got bit a month ago by a little bit of corrosion on the positive lead lug on the battery, cleaned it up and the thing fired right up. My situation was a bit different; I would go to start it and all I would hear was one click and then the whole car would lock out electricly. I would reset it by undoing the negitive lead and then I would repeat the same process. I finally took off the positive lead by chance and saw the corrosion. It might just be something that simple.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Springfield Missouri
Batttery holds a charge no problem, fuel pump makes it's "whrrrr" sound like normal
I bought a chiltons manual by the way and it is about worthless.
tomorrow i'm testing the ICM
I bought a chiltons manual by the way and it is about worthless.
tomorrow i'm testing the ICM
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,621
Likes: 206
From: Orlando FL
Sounds like you have made a left turn??
Since the fuel pump is running, VATS is probably not an issue. We were discussing the no crank problem. Why are you focusing on the ICM when it does not turn over, or are we past that point. If you cant crank, see if you can measure any voltage on the solenoid when you turn the key to start. Possible bad starter or start relay. Hopefully not ignition switch.
How do you plan to test the ICM. Its basically a 5 to 70 volt amplifier that drives the coil and has its input from the ECM. You can not check it with a meter, but only in an operational connection or by substitution. If you want to peruse this, I have a lot more info on this if need be.
Since the fuel pump is running, VATS is probably not an issue. We were discussing the no crank problem. Why are you focusing on the ICM when it does not turn over, or are we past that point. If you cant crank, see if you can measure any voltage on the solenoid when you turn the key to start. Possible bad starter or start relay. Hopefully not ignition switch.
How do you plan to test the ICM. Its basically a 5 to 70 volt amplifier that drives the coil and has its input from the ECM. You can not check it with a meter, but only in an operational connection or by substitution. If you want to peruse this, I have a lot more info on this if need be.
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: panama city beach Florida
Sounds like you have made a left turn??
Since the fuel pump is running, VATS is probably not an issue. We were discussing the no crank problem. Why are you focusing on the ICM when it does not turn over, or are we past that point. If you cant crank, see if you can measure any voltage on the solenoid when you turn the key to start. Possible bad starter or start relay. Hopefully not ignition switch.
How do you plan to test the ICM. Its basically a 5 to 70 volt amplifier that drives the coil and has its input from the ECM. You can not check it with a meter, but only in an operational connection or by substitution. If you want to peruse this, I have a lot more info on this if need be.
Since the fuel pump is running, VATS is probably not an issue. We were discussing the no crank problem. Why are you focusing on the ICM when it does not turn over, or are we past that point. If you cant crank, see if you can measure any voltage on the solenoid when you turn the key to start. Possible bad starter or start relay. Hopefully not ignition switch.
How do you plan to test the ICM. Its basically a 5 to 70 volt amplifier that drives the coil and has its input from the ECM. You can not check it with a meter, but only in an operational connection or by substitution. If you want to peruse this, I have a lot more info on this if need be.
VATS kills the injector pulse not the fuel pump. Ryan. Check your VATS bypass. With key off. Remove bypass, wait 10 minites reinstall bypass then start your car! I do this every day just try it, You have nothing to lose
David
Last edited by SportsCarsUnlimited; Apr 2, 2008 at 09:28 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,621
Likes: 206
From: Orlando FL
I stand corrected on the fuel relay in regard to VATS.
VATS, or called Pass Key will disable the injectors better known as FEDS (agreed). The point I really wanted to make was in regard to the start inhibit relay. If VATS is triggered it will also not allow the start relay to close not permitting voltage to be applied to the solenoid on the starter. That is why I wanted it measured to see if there was any voltage at the solenoid to see if it was bad. If VATS goes active there is a 3 minute time out.
Thanks, Paul
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: panama city beach Florida
Yes Paul thats what im trying saying( he has bypassed the VATS) with a VATS bypass installed when the VATS is triggered the key must be removed for it to reset. With a bypass in place the VATS can not reset it self. So the starter relay is open and there is no injecter pulse. You must remove bypass so VATS can reset( same as removing the key). 3 minites, reinstall bypass this should clear VATS and car should start.
David
David
Last edited by SportsCarsUnlimited; Apr 2, 2008 at 10:22 PM.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Springfield Missouri
Not only is there a no crank situation using the key, there's also a no start situation when crossing the terminals on the starter, but it tried to turn over.
be back later today
be back later today
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: panama city beach Florida
David
Last edited by SportsCarsUnlimited; Apr 3, 2008 at 09:21 PM.