Time for Roller Rockers!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
Time for Roller Rockers!
After taking off a valve cover, I measured the studs to 3/8" and wrote down the casting #. Turns out I have 113 heads afterall. Well anyway, I also saw that I have guideplates, so I can get the non-self aligning rockers but I can't use normal aluminum since I have the centerbolts.
I've opt'ed to get the sets of 8 Comp Cams Chrome-moly roller rockers from TPIS, one set of 1.6s and one set of 1.52s. I had a chat with both the techs at Summit and TPIS, and they agree that the chrome-moly will fit under the stock valve covers & that they will fit between the centerbolts.
Anyone have experience with TPIS on buying rockers or other products? The guy on the tech line seemed fairly knowledgeable on the topic, and he knew that my springs may not handle the 1.6 rockers on the exhaust side because of the cam lift.
I've opt'ed to get the sets of 8 Comp Cams Chrome-moly roller rockers from TPIS, one set of 1.6s and one set of 1.52s. I had a chat with both the techs at Summit and TPIS, and they agree that the chrome-moly will fit under the stock valve covers & that they will fit between the centerbolts.
Anyone have experience with TPIS on buying rockers or other products? The guy on the tech line seemed fairly knowledgeable on the topic, and he knew that my springs may not handle the 1.6 rockers on the exhaust side because of the cam lift.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 197
Likes: 1
From: Pennsylvania
The guide plates are not actual guide plates, they are assembly aids, and your rods will not be hardened. If everything is stock, that is. Guide plates and hardened pushrods are not difficult to install if you do not want to use self-centering rockers.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
It's not the stock L98 motor, it's a crate I bought from a mechanic. I had the valve covers off twice to verify, they look just like the guide plates on any website I've seen. Not sure about the pushrods, but those aren't top priority right now.
I've decided to do the install myself, any DIYers out there that have any helpful advice/concerns?
I've decided to do the install myself, any DIYers out there that have any helpful advice/concerns?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
He is right you need to get hardened push rods and guide plates. Don't take a chance I got mine for under $60 if you like I can look up the part #s.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,221
Likes: 446
From: Overland Park Kansas
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (appearance mods)
C4 of Year Winner (appearance mods) 2019
Another alternative....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-p...r-rockers.html
I talked Dane into going with 1.6 rollers for his AFR setup. That's why he has a new 1.5 set for sale. He'd be a good guy to buy from.
Gregg
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-p...r-rockers.html
I talked Dane into going with 1.6 rollers for his AFR setup. That's why he has a new 1.5 set for sale. He'd be a good guy to buy from.
Gregg
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
Alright, educate me here. Why exactly do I need hardened pushrods and new guideplates when they appear to be already installed in my motor? I've read that non-hardened pushrods will rub against the guideplates and get metal shavings in the motor, yet I already have guideplates and they do not appear rub at all. I don't believe that the current guides are "assembly aids" as they are identical to any guideplates that I've seen offered online.
Will the 1.6 ratio make them rub, or is the assumption that I would be installing new guideplates that were previously not there? If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take off the covers again and snap a few pictures to make sure. If I seem ignorant, I'm sorry, but if I already have something on my motor, I don't see the reason to drop another $100. Is there any way to see if the pushrods are hardened already?
Will the 1.6 ratio make them rub, or is the assumption that I would be installing new guideplates that were previously not there? If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take off the covers again and snap a few pictures to make sure. If I seem ignorant, I'm sorry, but if I already have something on my motor, I don't see the reason to drop another $100. Is there any way to see if the pushrods are hardened already?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 15
From: backwoods upstate ny
short stroke with a good file near the end of the pushrod or side of the guideplate will tell, do no harm...if not sure what to expect from file action, 'test' file a scrap of known mild steel vs the shank of a drill bit first.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,153
Likes: 553
From: Glenbeulah Wi
Alright, educate me here. Why exactly do I need hardened pushrods and new guideplates when they appear to be already installed in my motor? I've read that non-hardened pushrods will rub against the guideplates and get metal shavings in the motor, yet I already have guideplates and they do not appear rub at all. I don't believe that the current guides are "assembly aids" as they are identical to any guideplates that I've seen offered online.
Will the 1.6 ratio make them rub, or is the assumption that I would be installing new guideplates that were previously not there? If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take off the covers again and snap a few pictures to make sure. If I seem ignorant, I'm sorry, but if I already have something on my motor, I don't see the reason to drop another $100. Is there any way to see if the pushrods are hardened already?
Will the 1.6 ratio make them rub, or is the assumption that I would be installing new guideplates that were previously not there? If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll take off the covers again and snap a few pictures to make sure. If I seem ignorant, I'm sorry, but if I already have something on my motor, I don't see the reason to drop another $100. Is there any way to see if the pushrods are hardened already?
Check to see if your current rockers are self centering rockers, (the stamped tip will have a recess for the valve stem that will keep the rocker centered on the valve stem) or non self centering rockers (the tip contacting the valve stem will be flat). If you have self centering rockers you probably do not have hardned push rods and the guide plates are probably production pieces that will not work as guide plates. If you have non self centering rockers on the engine already you can assume that you have hardned push rods and guide plates already and you can replace the current rockers with 1.6 non self centering rockers.
My guess based on your comment of no contact between the current pushrod and guide plate is that you have factory self centering rockers and will need to purchase aftermarket self centering rockers or aftermarket non self centering rockers, guide plates and hardened push rods.
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Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,966
Likes: 4
From: Made In America
St. Jude Donor '10-'11
Another alternative....
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-p...r-rockers.html
I talked Dane into going with 1.6 rollers for his AFR setup. That's why he has a new 1.5 set for sale. He'd be a good guy to buy from.
Gregg
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-p...r-rockers.html
I talked Dane into going with 1.6 rollers for his AFR setup. That's why he has a new 1.5 set for sale. He'd be a good guy to buy from.
Gregg
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,043
Likes: 8
From: Tampa Florida
Check to see if your current rockers are self centering rockers, (the stamped tip will have a recess for the valve stem that will keep the rocker centered on the valve stem).
My guess based on your comment of no contact between the current pushrod and guide plate is that you have factory self centering rockers and will need to purchase aftermarket self centering rockers or aftermarket non self centering rockers, guide plates and hardened push rods.
My guess based on your comment of no contact between the current pushrod and guide plate is that you have factory self centering rockers and will need to purchase aftermarket self centering rockers or aftermarket non self centering rockers, guide plates and hardened push rods.
Below are rockers from and '89 which used assembley plates from the factory as well:
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
Check to see if your current rockers are self centering rockers, (the stamped tip will have a recess for the valve stem that will keep the rocker centered on the valve stem) or non self centering rockers (the tip contacting the valve stem will be flat). If you have self centering rockers you probably do not have hardned push rods and the guide plates are probably production pieces that will not work as guide plates. If you have non self centering rockers on the engine already you can assume that you have hardned push rods and guide plates already and you can replace the current rockers with 1.6 non self centering rockers.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,758
Likes: 49
From: Houston Texas
Check to see if your current rockers are self centering rockers, (the stamped tip will have a recess for the valve stem that will keep the rocker centered on the valve stem) or non self centering rockers (the tip contacting the valve stem will be flat). If you have self centering rockers you probably do not have hardned push rods and the guide plates are probably production pieces that will not work as guide plates. If you have non self centering rockers on the engine already you can assume that you have hardned push rods and guide plates already and you can replace the current rockers with 1.6 non self centering rockers.
My guess based on your comment of no contact between the current pushrod and guide plate is that you have factory self centering rockers and will need to purchase aftermarket self centering rockers or aftermarket non self centering rockers, guide plates and hardened push rods.
My guess based on your comment of no contact between the current pushrod and guide plate is that you have factory self centering rockers and will need to purchase aftermarket self centering rockers or aftermarket non self centering rockers, guide plates and hardened push rods.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
Alright, just popped the valve covers and I do see wear on the pushrods. Not a measurable amount, but it is noticably silver compared to the rest of the dark rod. I called TPIS and their rockers are non-self aligning, so I guess I need to get hardened pushrods too. I took a few pics and I'll have those up later tonight hopefully.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,705
Likes: 30
From: Chesapeake Beach Maryland
2015 C5 of Year Finalist
If you buy self aligning roller rockers you will not need hardened pushrods or guideplates - however if you go with non-self aligning RR (better IMOP) they will require guide plates and hardened pushrods. If you do have the guide plates already, you are a few bucks ahead of the game. Also if you have not had any head work done you can probably get away with stock length pushrods. You will still want to check the contact area on the valve stem after assembly to ensure good geometry throughout the travel of the rocker arm.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
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From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
Okay here are the pics..
Guideplate
Pushrod
Rocker
Casting #
Since my budget well has dried up in the acquisition of the roller rockers, I will need to hear convincing evidence to prove that hardened pushrods are neccessary with these heads. I'm unsure what work will be done to these heads in the future, but for the sake of argument lets say I'm leaving them stock for the time being. What is the cost to reliability ratio of the purchase and how much better are these pushrods, really? Say - if they're meant for high-RPM racing, I can probably do without them.
Guideplate
Pushrod
Rocker
Casting #
Since my budget well has dried up in the acquisition of the roller rockers, I will need to hear convincing evidence to prove that hardened pushrods are neccessary with these heads. I'm unsure what work will be done to these heads in the future, but for the sake of argument lets say I'm leaving them stock for the time being. What is the cost to reliability ratio of the purchase and how much better are these pushrods, really? Say - if they're meant for high-RPM racing, I can probably do without them.
Last edited by Master__Shake_; May 20, 2009 at 05:43 PM.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
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From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
So now that I've finally gotten the rockers, I've run into a problem. My valvecovers have the support bars going width-wise and prevent reinstalling the cover with the new rockers, I assume those are what you call drip tabs? Can I get away with just cutting the lip with a dremel or must I remove the entire support to fit the rockers in?
This little DIY job is turning into a PITA if you ask me.
This little DIY job is turning into a PITA if you ask me.
Last edited by Master__Shake_; May 28, 2009 at 10:54 AM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 3
From: Hazel Park MI
Yes master, the infamous drip tabs. Dremmel them. As I am finding out, and I know of the limited budget thing, the proform valve covers are a good investment, as you MAY have to do some adjusting in time and having to take the covers all the way off is rather bothersome for a quick adjustment.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta Ga
Yes master, the infamous drip tabs. Dremmel them. As I am finding out, and I know of the limited budget thing, the proform valve covers are a good investment, as you MAY have to do some adjusting in time and having to take the covers all the way off is rather bothersome for a quick adjustment.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
From: Near Lockport NY Black 1986 Coupe
I've decided to get an aftermarket set of valve covers, Trans-dapt to be exact. They're a tall style without drip tabs, so no headaches. I tried the dremel today and for the amount of work to trim 1 tab, I think I'll spend the money as opposed to doing the tedious task.